Any of you guys into dogs? I wanna talk presa canario

[RamSECUT]

Been researching the breed for a while now, and i've found a really good breeder in Greece. Anybody on this board have any experience with the breed?

 

[Mister Sin]

Never even heard of it, but that's a bad ass looking dog. I'm allergic as shit to damn near anything with hair, so not for me. BTW, I hope your not realistically talking about importing a dog. That seems crazy

 

[LACHAMP46]

I believe this was the breed of dogs that killed Diana Whipple a few years ago in San Fransisco...Bane and somebody...Large mastiffs/look a little like tall pitbulls or stocky great danes....other than that, never seen one in person, so for temperament you'd need somebody else

 

[RhodyRams]

dude you need a lot of property and a gun... that dog ever gets loose in a neighborhood and you will have lawsuits on your hands. They have a bad temper and will attack anyone they feel is invading their territory

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Get a nice mutt at the SPCA or local no kill shelter. They need good homes and often are very affectionate animals. That is the way I went for my last dog and I have no regrets at all.

Get away from exotic breeds. Flying them in is exorbitant and many breeders of rare dogs will insist that you meet them in their home. It really isn't worth it. Go to Petfinder.com and you can find damn near any breed withing 50 miles of your home that needs some love.

It is said that at our local SPCA no kill shelter the place is full of Pitbulls. Most of them are nasty because some gangsta wannabes wanted to have a badass dog and trained them to be killers. Those dogs aren't likely to find good homes. Many think it is just the breed but I know a few Pitbulls that live in good homes and they are sociable and loving dogs. It is a crying shame what people do to animals.

 

[Username]

Successfully mated a bulldog with a shitzu once.

 

[-X-]

Successfully mated a bulldog with a shitzu once.

 

[Username]

lul

 

[Mister Sin]

A dog of that size and look is going to make people nervous. It will need obedience training from day one. I've found in my days of coming across big mean dogs, the best way to handle them is to almost "punk" them out. As they are being aggressive you stare straight into their eyes. You do not look away. Eventually the dog will look away first and the dogs barks and aggression subside and they accept you as the dominate. A dog that big, I wouldn't even try. I've used that method on several Pitts and a couple rotts. But no chance I risk "thinking " I'm in charge with a 150lb machine like that. I'm a big believer in the owner makes the dog, not the breed, but damn I would be nervous. I agree, Lots of land and a gun.

 

[RamSECUT]

A dog of that size and look is going to make people nervous. It will need obedience training from day one. I've found in my days of coming across big mean dogs, the best way to handle them is to almost "punk" them out. As they are being aggressive you stare straight into their eyes. You do not look away. Eventually the dog will look away first and the dogs barks and aggression subside and they accept you as the dominate. A dog that big, I wouldn't even try. I've used that method on several Pitts and a couple rotts. But no chance I risk "thinking " I'm in charge with a 150lb machine like that. I'm a big believer in the owner makes the dog, not the breed, but damn I would be nervous. I agree, Lots of land and a gun.

I'm not a rookie to dogs, I've been raising and trainig dogs for most of my life. I had a Rottweiler, once, that i trained to walk himself. I work dogs with a great group of guys here at Service dogs U.S.A. They train dogs for everything from show, to seeing eye.
I'm nowhere near a novice

 

[RamSECUT]

Never even heard of it, but that's a bad ass looking dog. I'm allergic as crap to damn near anything with hair, so not for me. BTW, I hope your not realistically talking about importing a dog. That seems crazy

I was going to buy locally, but all of the breeders in the U.S. want $3 - $5000 for their dogs. After researching, I found out that they import their dogs from overseas for a fourth of that price, then turn around and try to quadruple their profits

 

[Mister Sin]

I'm not a rookie to dogs, I've been raising and trainig dogs for most of my life. I had a Rottweiler, once, that i trained to walk himself. I work dogs with a great group of guys here at Service dogs U.S.A. They train dogs for everything from show, to seeing eye.
I'm nowhere near a novice

That's a good thing , but a Rott has got nothing on that dog. A dog that big and muscular would toss a Rott around like a puppy. I feel like you have to know how to really handle a dog that big to truly be responsible for it. You seem confident which is great. But I could tell you this, a dog that size wonders on my land, I'm not even asking questions. I'm pulling out the 8mm and taking it down. And I love dogs. I think that's going to be the biggest issue for it, people's natural fear and hesitance. Good luck tho man. Like I said before, I believe the owner makes the dog, not the breed.

 

[Rambition]

think very carefully...

Unleashed Fury
By Bill Hewitt

A Dog Attack in San Francisco Kills a Beloved Lacrosse Coach and Stirs Outrage Coast to Coast
Laden with groceries, Diane Whipple had just returned to her apartment in the upscale Pacific Heights section of San Francisco the afternoon of Jan. 26. As she opened the door to her sixth-floor apartment, a neighbor's dog—a 112-lb. female Presa Canario named Hera—rushed down the narrow hall and began barking furiously at her, quickly followed by 123-lb. Bane, a male Presa, who was leashed but pulling the helpless neighbor, attorney Marjorie Knoller. What happened next is unclear, but somehow Whipple, 33, a popular lacrosse coach at local St. Mary's College, found herself on the floor and Bane attacked. Shortly afterward, as Whipple's companion of seven years, Sharon Smith, 35, returned home, the landlord told her that her roommate had been the victim of a dog bite. Recalls Smith: "I thought, how bad can it be?"

The answer was horrific indeed. The dog, a fierce breed that mixes the English mastiff with the Canary Island cattle dog and is often trained to fight other dogs, had torn out Whipple's throat. So gruesome was the scene of carnage in the blood-soaked hallway that several police officers later received trauma counseling. Whipple's death stunned and outraged San Franciscans and, not surprisingly, made headlines nationwide. "It's tragic," says Lt. Henry Hunter of the San Francisco Police. "Here's a greatly admired woman coming home to a locked-gate apartment house and being killed on her doorstep—by a dog. It's bizarre."

Especially when contrasted with the ebullient and graceful way that Diane Whipple lived. Raised in Manhasset, N.Y., Whipple was the sort of friend who never forgot a birthday or anniversary and who often composed poems for those close to her. A superlative athlete, she excelled in almost every sport she tried. But her passion was lacrosse. At Penn State, she was a two-time All-American in the sport and was named the university's female athlete of the year in 1990. After graduation she moved to San Diego and began to compete professionally as a middle distance runner in track and field, with hopes of making the U.S. Olympic team for the 1996 Games in Atlanta. when she failed to do so, she turned to coaching lacrosse.

In the fall of 1999 she signed on to coach the team at St. Mary's a small Catholic coed college about 25 miles east of San Francisco. In her brief tenure she developed a remarkable rapport with her players, who often lined up outside Whipple's office for the chance to flop down on her couch, talk and munch on the candy she always kept in a jar on her desk. "Diane played so many roles," says Andy McDowell, an assistant athletic director at St. Mary's. "She was a big sister, a friend when she needed to be, a mom, a coach."

At home, she delighted in her relationship with Smith, whom she had met in Los Angeles in 1994. Most weekends the couple went running in the woods on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge. "She taught me to take advantage of every day," says Smith, "that there are no guarantees and that the little things in life really do matter."

On their part, Knoller and husband Robert Noel, 59—both lawyers—seemed an unlikely couple to be involved in such a troubling incident. Married for 13 years and working out of their apartment, they took on a wide range of cases. They had won awards for helping the homeless and destitute. In recent years they had defended both guards and inmates in the state prison system. "These are not people who go around hurting people," says Allan Paul, owner of the San Francisco Brewing Company, where Knoller and Noel are well-liked regulars. "These are people who go around helping people."

Still, Knoller and Noel did little to help themselves with their tortured explanations of how the incident occurred. In a rambling 18-page letter to the San Francisco district attorney, Noel seemed to suggest that Whipple bore some responsibility for the attack. He said that she may have been wearing a pheromonebased perfume that could have triggered the response in the dogs. He even speculated that "as a serious athlete she may have been a user of steroids," which could have had a similar effect—assertions that authorities dismissed as baseless.

As for the dogs themselves, Knoller and Noel first told police they had rescued them from an owner who had mistreated them. But the full story turned out to be more complex—and more disturbing. It emerged that the true owners of the animals were two convicts, Paul Schneider, 38, and Dale Bretches, 44, both of whom are serving life sentences without parole in California's maximum-security Pelican Bay prison. Both Schneider, convicted of robbery and attempted murder, and Bretches, doing time for murder, are members of the white-supremacist Aryan Brotherhood.

Some years back Knoller and Noel met Schneider while working on a prison case. The relationship quickly blossomed into a warm, if improbable, friendship. In a letter to authorities, Noel glossed over Schneider's crimes, describing him as "a man of honor, integrity and intelligence." Noel might have added enterprise, because with money Schneider gained from a court judgment against the state Department of Corrections, he and his buddy Bretches, who spent hours sketching animals in prison, came up with a scheme to breed dogs for profit. (Authorities speculate the animals were to be sold as guard dogs for Mexican drug gangs.)

To facilitate his plan, Schneider turned to Janet Coumbs, 50, a single mother living on a four-acre farm in rural Northern California who visited him regularly in what she thought was a charitable gesture. In violation of prison regulations, Schneider proposed that he put up the money to buy the Presa Canarios and that Coumbs pay him back as she sold puppies. "I thought he was a nice guy," says Coumbs. "I guess I was pretty naive."

In June 1998 she picked up the first young dogs paid for by Schneider—Bane and another Presa Canario named Isis. As Bane grew, he became difficult to control. Soon no fence could hold him, and Coumbs was forced to keep him chained in the yard. Then in January 1999 Schneider paid for two more Presas, Hera and Fury. Hera had a particularly nasty disposition, killing a kitten belonging to Coumbs's daughter. She and Bane also killed sheep and chickens on the farm. In the fall of 1999, apparently believing that Coumbs was pampering the dogs, Schneider hired Noel and Knoller to get them back, which they did, picking the animals up last spring. Coumbs says she told the attorneys the animals were vicious and had killed some of her livestock. By last September, though, Bane and Hera were living with the couple.

Although some neighbors reported having no untoward encounters with the pets, dozens of other local residents have told police they lived in fear of them, and that Bane had earned the nickname "Dog of Death." According to Smith, Whipple had been bitten on the hand by one of the dogs in December. Police are investigating whether Knoller and Noel knew the dogs were vicious. If they did, the couple could face charges of involuntary manslaughter. (In a bizarre twist, three days after the attack Knoller and Noel legally adopted Schneider.) But for Diane Whipple's friends and loved ones, the terrible end to her truncated life begged understanding. At a memorial service on Feb. 1 in the chapel at St. Mary's, the 450 mourners were suddenly rocked by a mild tremor. "When we had that earthquake, everyone inside froze," says Sharon Smith. "People said, 'That's [Diane] saying, 'I'm here.' "

Bill Hewitt
Frances Dinkelspiel in San Francisco and Rebecca Paley in New York City
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20133691,00.html
15 years to life in S.F. dog maul death
Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer
Published 4:00 am, Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Marjorie Knoller did practically nothing while her dogs were fatally mauling a neighbor in a San Francisco apartment hallway, and later blamed the victim for her own death, a judge said Monday in sentencing the former attorney to 15 years to life in prison for second-degree murder.

In rejecting a defense lawyer's request for probation, Judge Charlotte Woolard of San Francisco Superior Court said the horrific circumstances of the attack Jan. 26, 2001, far outweighed Knoller's previous crime-free record.

Woolard said Knoller had not bothered to put a muzzle on her aggressive 140-pound Presa Canario dog before taking it out of the apartment. Knoller did not call for help, retrieve a weapon or dial 911 while the animal was mauling Diane Whipple for at least 10 minutes, the judge said. A second Presa Canario that Knoller and her husband and law partner, Robert Noel, kept in their apartment may have joined the attack.

Whipple, 33, the women's lacrosse coach at St. Mary's College in Moraga, bled to death from at least 77 wounds. Knoller, 53, was paroled from prison in 2004 after serving about three years for involuntary manslaughter, but was returned to custody Aug. 22 after Woolard reinstated the jury's murder verdict. Knoller's husband, who was not home when the attack happened, was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and paroled in September 2003.

Knoller testified at her trial that she did everything she could to save her neighbor. Woolard, however, concluded that she made only "minimal efforts" at intervention and "left Ms. Whipple in the hallway to die alone."

She also said Knoller lied repeatedly in grand jury and trial testimony, has never expressed remorse and "blamed the victim" in an interview with ABC's "Good Morning America" 13 days after the attack.

In that interview, which prosecutors played for the trial jury, Knoller said Whipple had ample opportunity to get back into her apartment and save herself.

Monday's 25-minute hearing included a statement from Whipple's partner, Sharon Smith, who looked at Knoller and declared that more than seven years after "the worst day of my life and the last day of Diane's life, finally there is some justice."

Loaded weapons
Knoller "valued her dogs over the lives of her fellow human beings," Deputy District Attorney Allison Macbeth told the judge. She compared the dogs to "loaded assault weapons" and said Knoller had allowed them to roam through her Pacific Heights apartment building with little restraint.

Knoller, wearing orange jail clothing, looked straight ahead throughout the hearing and did not speak before being led away by guards.

Her lawyer, Dennis Riordan, said afterward that she had numerous grounds for appeal. He cited the court's substitution of Woolard for the now-retired trial judge, Woolard's discounting of the judge's finding that Knoller hadn't known her dog could kill anyone, and a continuing dispute over the application of the murder law to such a case.

The crime "is not and has never been murder," Riordan told reporters. He said Knoller's chance of success on appeal "depends on whether we get a judgment that's controlled by law or a judgment that's controlled by San Francisco politics."

Prosecutors said it was the first murder conviction for a dog mauling in California history.

Dogs owned by inmates
Knoller and Noel had custody of the two Presa Canario dogs, which were owned by inmates at Pelican Bay State Prison.

On the day of the attack, Knoller took the larger dog, Bane, for a walk on the roof of the apartment building and returned to the sixth-floor corridor when the dog bolted away from her and attacked Whipple as she was about to enter her apartment. Bane's 100-pound mate, Hera, charged out of Knoller's apartment and may have joined the attack.

Second-degree murder
A jury in Los Angeles, where the trial was moved because of extensive publicity in the Bay Area, convicted Knoller of second-degree murder in 2002 and found Noel guilty of involuntary manslaughter for leaving the dogs with his wife while knowing she couldn't control them.

Judge James Warren of San Francisco Superior Court, who presided over the trial, reduced Knoller's conviction to involuntary manslaughter, saying he believed her when she said she had no idea Bane might kill someone.

But the state Supreme Court ruled last year that Warren had used the wrong legal standard in overturning the murder verdict. The court said prosecutors seeking a murder conviction for dog mauling don't have to prove the owner knew the dog was likely to kill, only that the owner had been aware the animal was potentially lethal and had exposed others to the danger.

The court returned the case to Superior Court to decide whether to reinstate the murder conviction. Warren, who has retired, was willing to handle the case, but the court's presiding judge, Davd Ballatti, instead assigned it to Woolard. He said Woolard could focus on the case, while Warren had other responsibilities in his current job as a private arbitrator.

Warnings ignored
After poring through the trial transcript, Woolard reinstated the murder conviction Aug. 22, saying Knoller had ignored warnings that the dogs were dangerous and had seen them attack and threaten other dogs and people.

If the conviction and sentence are upheld, Knoller will be credited with the nearly three years she was imprisoned for manslaughter, making her eligible for parole in about 10 years.

Woolard fined her $10,000 and ordered her to pay $6,800 out of her prison earnings in restitution to Smith.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...-S-F-dog-maul-death-3268437.php#photo-1846799

 

[RamSECUT]

That was a terrible tragedy, but there is no animal that is purely evil. Check out this breeders dogs. They're totally at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Angry Ram]

What is this breeder's reputation? Does he care for the dogs or just breed and sell breed and sell?

Animals may not be evil, but each species have different levels of instincts. Like a lion vs. say, a cheetah. Both cats, but the lion is more likely to attack or defend, while the cheetah would run away.

I agree with others to adopt a shelter animal. A friend of mine adopted one, but she's just a lazy bitch that likes to eat a lot (yes the dog).

 

[RamSECUT]

What is this breeder's reputation? Does he care for the dogs or just breed and sell breed and sell?

Animals may not be evil, but each species have different levels of instincts. Like a lion vs. say, a cheetah. Both cats, but the lion is more likely to attack or defend, while the cheetah would run away.

I agree with others to adopt a shelter animal. A friend of mine adopted one, but she's just a lazy bitch that likes to eat a lot (yes the dog).

The breeder that i'm going to use comes highly rated. She has several performance trial and show champions. She gives a two year guarantee on the dogs hips and heart. Before your pup is shipped, she will crop the ears (if you so desire), train to walk on a leash, socialize with kids and other animals, all inoculations, and an international microchip will be inserted.
Most of the breeders that ive spoken with give guarantees, but none like hers.
The breeder in the video that i posted has an excellent kennel also. He owns the only two master supreme grand champion presas in the world and their mother and daughter.

 

[LesBaker]

Successfully mated a bulldog with a shitzu once.

I once had a similar threesome

 

[LesBaker]

The breeder that i'm going to use comes highly rated. She has several performance trial and show champions. She gives a two year guarantee on the dogs hips and heart. Before your pup is shipped, she will crop the ears (if you so desire), train to walk on a leash, socialize with kids and other animals, all inoculations, and an international microchip will be inserted.
Most of the breeders that ive spoken with give guarantees, but none like hers.
The breeder in the video that i posted has an excellent kennel also. He owns the only two master supreme grand champion presas in the world and their mother and daughter.

Are you getting a dog or a robot? Lol

 

[Mister Sin]

Price?

 

[RamSECUT]

Price?

Currently under negotiation. Most of the breeders in America want between $3 and $5000. Some we're even asking $8000. I want a dog, not a car lol