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whos right, who's wrong?

Discussion in 'OFF TOPIC' started by RhodyRams, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. -X- Not into the whole brevity thing.

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    That's your answer to everything. :snicker:
     
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  2. El Juggernauto Your Best Friend

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    I'm with @LesBaker here.
     
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  3. LesBaker Mr. Savant

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    Yeah he was right about it once or twice so now he thinks it's the answer to everything.
     
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  4. PhxRam The Estimated Prophet

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    Where abouts in the finger lakes? That is my old stomping ground.
     
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  5. RamFan503 Grill and Brew Master

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    I was in landscaping for over 20 years and I'm afraid I don't have a happy answer for you from my point of view. and I'm sorry you are going through this. I used to spend a great deal of my days fixing poorly done work.

    First of all, if I might ask, how deep was the fill? If it was over 4", 3" minus might not be a bad idea as a base beneath 1" or 3/4 minus. But the 3" should be leveled and compacted before top coating with a 1 1/2 - 2" layer of 3/4 minus. The stone dust or mason's sand should be placed over that and watered in and allowed to dry if possible before setting your stone. From the looks of the picture there is round rock in the fill. Round rock does not compact. It should be actual base rock. And I hate to add that if you are dealing with a substantial fill, it is a good idea to put fabric under it to prevent sinking areas as the dirt beneath will try to push up through the rock. That of course depends a lot on what's beneath the rock you are putting down for your base. Here we deal with a lot of clay and loam so it is pretty much a must if you are dealing with a substantial fill.

    In Oregon, you are not allowed to perform landscaping work of over $500 on one job without a contractor's license. You don't have to have a contract but you are required to have a license. A quick call to your contractor's board will get you the info for your state. If he is offering to do a job beyond your state's laws, that is on him - not the consumer.

    Personally, I would demand that he remove the fill so that a qualified person could do the job correctly. It may cost you a little more in the front end but you likely won't be lifting your stone to re-level after the rains and foot traffic cause settling. It is far more difficult to correct a poorly done job than to do it correctly out of the gate. I contractor that does flat work should be able to look at it and tell you if it is appropriate as a fill. They'd do that as part of providing you a bid so it shouldn't cost you anything to find out.

    The wheel ruts would be unacceptable to me. We always brought plywood to jobs where we had to cross areas we didn't want damaged.

    As to the stone, as a contractor, I would generally not allow my customer to buy the stone on my license. If he wants to buy the stone and have it delivered, that's fine. No way would I give him my price on that stone though. That mark up is part of my profit margin and a good contractor should make a profit on anything he has a hand in. I instead generally had the customer meet me at the yard and look at the pallets before they were delivered if they had concerns. Being that you are a contractor, you might get his price anyway and that would be fine as long as you were making all the arrangements to get it to your job site.

    So there's my input. Most of the stone work and pavers I did was for Intel and Microsoft stock splitters who had more money than brains or the want to do anything for themselves, so keep in mind that money wasn't as huge of a concern as it is to most of us.

    Not sure if this helps.

    One other thing. If you don't want him on your property to remove the fill and further mess up your site, you can trespass him as the owner of the property. IF he enters anyway, you can simply have him arrested or removed by the local sheriff.
     
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  6. Elmgrovegnome Well-Known Member

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    Keuka lake. Between Bath and Penn Yan. I have been all over up there. Some years we would take the boat and fish but I prefer to mix it up. So, one of the guys that used to work for me was a friend and we would go fossil hunting in Buffalo, or go to Watkins Glenn, Niagra Falls, etc...

    My wife went to Houghton College. We go up there and visit now. We go to Letchworth and hike. It is a beautiful area but tough to find a restaurant. I here that upstate New York is very boring for the young residents and thus has developed quite a drug culture, particularly meth. That is Ashame because between hiking, boating, hunting, and other out of doors activities I love it up there. I guess I am just simple.
     
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  7. PhxRam The Estimated Prophet

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    Yeah i know the area. I grew up on skaneateles lake.
     
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  8. Thordaddy Binding you with ancient logic

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    Yeah if ya can't freak em shoot em:cool:
     
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  9. RhodyRams Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the input.

    The dig out was about 12" deep. One of my points of contention is the fact that he used 3"minus to fill the whole area, bringing in just as much as he took out. He had no plans on using 2 different types of base material, I questioned that myself. There was no way in hell, no matter how much compacting he did and even if it was the proper material, the finished level of the base would be low enough so the pavers sit at grade level after the installation of 2" of stone dust. I have raked alot of the big round rocks out of the way, almost 20 wheelbarrows worth, and I am still only about 2" below grade as it is. and the pavers I am using are 2 1/4" so I have a good bit to remove still. Quick estimate tells me that I needed a little over 5 yards, he told me he dumped 8 yards.

    I never intended to have him buy the stone. I get the same discount as he would at the local distributor, so I was planning on just using my contractor account to get it. I did tell him what I was using and showed him a few pieces of it so he knew how to price out the installation.

    Also upset about the fact that this has been going on since the beginning of June. He never told me he had a full time job elsewhere and would only be working here on Mondays. Word around town (and it's a small town) is there are a few people waiting for him to finish up other projects.

    I got his bill in the mail today and plan on calling him tomorrow about it. Have a party on the beach tonight so not willing to ruin my mood right now !!!
     
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  10. Elmgrovegnome Well-Known Member

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    They do things differently up your way. In PA we use quarried limestone and it isn't graded the same. When I use #2 it is .75" on average, give or take a quarter inch. 2b is 1.25" on average. The 3" is just that.

    We don't quarry from 3" to crumbs. It is all sorted specifically. It creates more voids between the stone for water to drain and prevent frost heaving, even when compacted. I guess different areas are limited to what is in the ground.
     
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  11. cracengl Member

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    When I was building my house, we used a lot of the washout material for our driveway, which is basically the leftovers in the concrete truck. I've heard it makes a good paver base to and you basically only pay for the cost to deliver. Either way, this guy didn't do a good job. I recently found a bit of a trick for finding good people...I went to a local landscape supply company and talked to the guy there. He was a landscaper for years and quit to open his supply company. Needless to say, he had a wealth of contacts in the business and was able to recommend a guy to cut down an old walnut tree by my house. Next time I need someone to do landscape work or concrete, or whatever, I'll go talk to him and see if he knows someone good.

    Also, it sounds like you have, but before I pay anyone to do work for me, I research it ad if I'm going to do it myself. Then I know exactly how it needs to be done and things don't come as a surprise. When I found the contractor for my house, I knew he was the one, because he actually took my 20 some odd pages of specifications and wasn't put off by them and didn't try to tell me that the things I wanted weren't really what I wanted.
     
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  12. RhodyRams Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Finally finished except for final landscaping around the patio. Hired some one else to complete the prep work and I rented a compactor and installed the pavers over the course of a few weekends. Now just have to bring in some top soil to repair the damage done by the yahoo who started the job
     
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  13. LesBaker Mr. Savant

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    Looks great dude I'm glad it ended well for you
     
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