Who is our best 5 O-linemen?

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DCH

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Yesterday we started Long - Saffold - Wells - Joseph - Barksdale. They got abused. Eyeball test, Wells and Joseph looked overmatched most of the game.

Now, Minnesota has a good D-line, but we're going to Tampa to meet up with Mr. McCoy and the Meanies. So no let-up here.

Who do you start, and why?

Me: Long - Robinson - Wells - Saffold - Barksdale. Robinson makes mistakes, but he's much more of a physical presence in the run game. We need that. With no push in the run game, guys are teeing off on Hill, pressing the line, and generally making it very easy to defend us.

I'd like to replace Wells, but he's got veteran savvy and the responsibility of making line calls. And I have to think that when placed between Robinson and Saffold, the overall unit will be a net positive.

What say you?
 

ZigZagRam

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I got tired of watching Greg Robinson on the sidelines while our line was stuggling yesterday. If we're going to look like that, give the rookie some work.
 

12intheBox

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Honestly, it might just be

G Rob - Saffold - Wells - Joseph - Barksdale
 

DCH

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Honestly, it might just be

G Rob - Saffold - Wells - Joseph - Barksdale
You must have seen worse out of Long than I did yesterday. I'm not saying you're wrong - I was watching on a laptop screen, and missed the whole 2nd half due to a housewarming party - but he didn't look like the weakest link on the line to me.
 

drpugilist

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i asked in another thread. how do we not start our 1st pk (2nd overall)? dont most 1st round linemen start immediately in the nfl?? seems like a no brainer to me.
 

12intheBox

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You must have seen worse out of Long than I did yesterday. I'm not saying you're wrong - I was watching on a laptop screen, and missed the whole 2nd half due to a housewarming party - but he didn't look like the weakest link on the line to me.

I may be overreacting to a few plays that stood out to me - I have only watched the game once.
 

yrba1

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The line of Long - Robinson- Wells - Saffold - Barksdale looks good too. I think Wells's struggles stem mainly from Joseph getting hammered all the time. Zimmer knows how to exploit an O-line with his blitzes and that showed. I'm worried about Robinson playing if he gets plugged in against McCoy, he'll be a beast against the run but will get dominated in pass protection.
 

12intheBox

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Whatever line we go with - we need to have a plan for what it looks like with Saffold on the table.
 

CoachO

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I think too much is being made of the "poor" play of the O-Line. The final number was 5 in terms of sacks allowed, but off the top of my head, 4 of those came in the 2nd half with Davis in the game. IMO, Davis needs to take much more of the blame for those sacks than than O-Line does. The first sack of Davis came from a safety blitz in an overload from the left side. It was poorly disguised, and yet, Davis never saw it coming. There were 2 others, where he "slid" in the pocket at the first sign of pressure, and ended up stepping right into a sack. There were times when he had opportunities to get the ball out, but just didn't know where to go with it.

And to be fair to the O-Line, how many times were they in 3rd and LONG situations, virtually making the running game a non issue?

I for one, an mot ready to push the panic button regarding this unit. For me, the bigger issue is the continued problem with the false start penalties. There is no excuse for that, regardless of who is in the game.
 
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12intheBox

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I think too much is being made of the "poor" play of the O-Line. The final number was 5 in terms of sacks allowed, but off the top of my head, 4 of those came in the 2nd half with Davis in the game. IMO, Davis needs to take much more of the blame for those sacks than than O-Line does. The first sack of Davis came from a safety blitz in an overload from the left side. It was poorly disguised, and yet, Davis never saw it coming. There were 2 others, where he "slid" in the pocket at the first sign of pressure, and ended up stepping right into a sack. There were times when he had opportunities to get the ball out, but just didn't know where to go with it.

And to be fair to the O-Line, how many times were they in 3rd and LONG situations, virtually making the running game a no issue?

I for one, an mot ready to push the panic button regarding this unit. For me, the bigger issue is the continued problem with the false start penalties. There is no excuse for that, regardless of who is in the game.

It wasn't just the sacks - there were a ton of pressures, too. More concerning to me was the lack of push in the run game. But yeah, we shot ourselves in the foot all too often.
 

beej

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I think too much is being made of the "poor" play of the O-Line. The final number was 5 in terms of sacks allowed, but off the top of my head, 4 of those came in the 2nd half with Davis in the game. IMO, Davis needs to take much more of the blame for those sacks than than O-Line does. The first sack of Davis came from a safety blitz in an overload from the left side. It was poorly disguised, and yet, Davis never saw it coming. There were 2 others, where he "slid" in the pocket at the first sign of pressure, and ended up stepping right into a sack. There were times when he had opportunities to get the ball out, but just didn't know where to go with it.

And to be fair to the O-Line, how many times were they in 3rd and LONG situations, virtually making the running game a no issue?

I for one, an mot ready to push the panic button regarding this unit. For me, the bigger issue is the continued problem with the false start penalties. There is no excuse for that, regardless of who is in the game.
Coach, I see what your saying and you know a lot more about it than I do but what about the run game. That was actually more concerning to me than the pass blocking. If we are a "run-first" offense then...
 

CoachO

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Coach, I see what your saying and you know a lot more about it than I do but what about the run game. That was actually more concerning to me than the pass blocking. If we are a "run-first" offense then...
I actually thought the running game was decent. Not great but decent. The problem was, they were put in so many 3rd and long situations and even 2nd and longs, because of the penalties, that they never really had to chance to be able to run the ball on any regular basis. Twenty-two rushes is not gonna get it done.

Obviously, once the score got out of hand after the Cordarrelle Patterson run, they became one dimensional, and the running game was an after thought.
 

junkman

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Usually I rewatch on NFL Rewind before I comment on things like this. I don't have the heart this week, so I'm doing the lazy man's approach.

PFF numbers on the OL from yesterday's game (best to worst):
  • Davin Joseph was +0,3 on 70 snaps, with a strongly positive +1.8 on run blocking, which was lost to -0.7 on pass blocking and -0.8 on penalty (did he have a penalty?)
  • Jake Long was -0.7 on the day on 70 snaps, with a -1.2 on run blocking (usually his strength)
  • Barksdale was -1.2 on the day with -.8 on pass, -.5 on screen, +0.8 on run, -0.7 on penalty
  • Saffold was -2.0 on the day with -1.2 on run and -0.8 on penalty
  • The worst, -4.0 to Scott Wells including -2.7 on run blocking and -0.9 on run blocking.
  • Greg Robinson was +0.3 on his 7 snaps including +0.3 on pass blocking... except... wasn't it through one of his gaps that had the pressure that caused the pick 6?
OL on the day, -8.6 as a unit. -4.8 of which was on the 26 running plays. Just miserable. PFF is putting most of the OL failure on Wells and Saffold (including -3.9 of the bad run blocking score), which as an overall impressions seems about right to me.

Also noteworthy, Lance Kendrics had a -1.5 run blocking score on 22 times he run blocked.

We cannot be a successful ground & pound offense with PFF -6.3 in run blocking.

Vikings OL, by comparison, +2.9.
 

DR RAM

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Right now, all I would do is replace Wells with Barnes. At this point I think Barnes is better, especially when you can't factor in the he will help the young guys argument. I think Long was just rusty, not in game shape, and probably a little timid. I am not ready to yank him. Keep Robinson ready to go in if/ when we need him, and when he learns the playbook better, start him wherever he would be the most effective, or in other words, whenever he becomes one of the top 5.
 

Imperial

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I actually thought the running game was decent. Not great but decent. The problem was, they were put in so many 3rd and long situations and even 2nd and longs, because of the penalties, that they never really had to chance to be able to run the ball on any regular basis. Twenty-two rushes is not gonna get it done.

Obviously, once the score got out of hand after the Cordarrelle Patterson run, they became one dimensional, and the running game was an after thought.

That was my take as well. Seemed to me the penalties got us a bit flustered, not to mention the third-and-a-mile downs. While I'll admit to being a half-glass-full guy, I have to believe their play will improve with game reps.
 

ZigZagRam

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Just a little story that I thought I'd put here.

I had the pleasure of seeing Greg Robinson stare a hole into an obnoxious fan in the first row behind the Rams sideline yesterday. Guy shut up pretty quickly.

I wouldn't want to make that guy mad.
 

iced

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Joseph and Wells looked by far the worst to me yesterday... and GRob wasn't any good either - first play, he got beat, Davis forced it for a pick 6.
 

Sum1

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You must have seen worse out of Long than I did yesterday. I'm not saying you're wrong - I was watching on a laptop screen, and missed the whole 2nd half due to a housewarming party - but he didn't look like the weakest link on the line to me.
I thought Long and Wells looked terrible yesterday to be honest. I saw 3 consecutive plays where Long was beat.