Where would Wentz and Goff go off the Board in Past Drafts?

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Ramsey

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Ramsey
Honestly, in the crossfire of the annual media "Draft a Quarterback Bombast" , underneath an avalanche of cliche superlatives, I can't tell the difference between this years crop of Quarterbacks and years past.

I haven't watched enough film. I'm flying blind , but not so blind, to realize how bad our Rams need a franchise quarterback. So I asked myself, "If Goff, Wentz, Lynch, and Conner Cook were in recent past drafts, Where would they have been taken?"

I've got no perspective! Help me out guys. Perhaps I'm asking the blind to lead the blind, but I don't think so. Many of you have deep insights, much deeper then the lazy media. So here's the deal...

Suppose all the top quarterbacks since the 2012 draft were in this draft. Pretend none of these guys have played in the NFL. We don't know that RG lll will injure his knee. Even if you expected Johnny Manziel was insane, nobody could have predicted Manziel's blonde wigs and drunk practice sessions. So try suspend your NFL memories and impressions of the QB's.

Remember college, the past pre-draft hype, and what you thought of all these quarterbacks coming out of college. Then place them in the order you would draft them, along with this years class. I didn't include QB's like Russell Wilson, because even the NFL scouts didn't forecast amazing arc of his career.



The Quarterbacks

Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin lll
Ryan Tannehill
Brandon Weedon
EJ Manual
Geno Smith
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Carson Wentz
Jared Goff
Conner Cook
Paxton Lynch

Bottom Line....Where would Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Conner Cook, and Paxton Lynch be drafted if all these QB's were in the same draft? From where I stand, I would think Andrew Luck go first. After Luck, things begin to blur for moi. That's where you guys come in. Please put this list of quarterbacks in order. Include your personal insights, memories from previous drafts, and whatever knowledge you bring to the table.
 
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PaRam24

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My first glance take would go something like this...Luck, Rg3, Jamis, Marcus, and probably Tannehill to round out the top 5...after that kinda a crap shoot...maybe Wentz or Teddy, maybe even Carr....idk man after the top four or so its pretty tough
 

Merlin

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I think size/build is important when talking about guys up high. All have to have enough arm to be there so not mentioning that as a criteria with them. Using my own criteria (size, boldness vs rush/eyes downfield, accuracy, readiness to play) here is how I have them:

1. Luck (highest ranked QB prospect in a long time)
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2. Winston (size and pro style offense, bold in pocket, competitor, would be very close to Luck IF he didn't have off field questions going in to draft)
3. Wentz (size and was required to make some reads, bold in pocket, athlete)
4. Bortles (athlete for his size, raw, bold in pocket)
5. Goff (skinny and slight of build like rest of this group, have him slightly ahead of Mariota and RG3 due to fact offense will not need to be dumbed way down)
6. Mariota (big enough albeit skinny, great athlete, very similar grade to RG3, a project coming in with big upside if he works to learn offense)
6b. RG3 (best athlete of the bunch, amazing on the move, amazing pure throwing talent, but I did not like his tendency to focus on the rush, like Mariota was very raw and needed offense adjusted to start)

IMO the way QBs have been taken, and the relative rankings on them for that matter, are so subjective that it's been all over the place. Bortles, for example, is a guy I would take over Mariota because since they're both raw and need to learn, he is a much better fit for the NFL because QBs get hit and knocked around. RG3 demonstrated almost immediately how much he did not like being hit, and it was a big adjustment for him and tbh I'm still not sure he's up for it. Goff I am very high on, and would take him over both RG3 and Mariota.

Just my .02 and way of looking at it.
 

DaveFan'51

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"If Goff, Wentz, Lynch, and Conner Cook were in recent past drafts, Where would they have been taken?"
My guess, Wentz and Goff would go late in the 1st or in the early 2nd round.
Lynch is a sold 2nd rounder, But I wouldn't touch Connor Cook before the 3rd round, if not much later!! Leadership issues with Cook have me thinking!
 

Orchid

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Obert
Mike Manock said during Goff's pro day that Wentz/Goff were just as good if not better than Winston/Mariotta. Daniel Jeremiah responded "I would say that, ceiling-wise, for (Winston and Mariota), I'd put them at a little bit higher ceiling."

Here is the NFL.com article that grew out of the exchange:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...entz-as-good-maybe-better-than-winstonmariota


NFL Media draft expert Mike Mayock dropped a bit of a bombshell in his analysis Friday during NFL Network's coverage of Cal QB
Manock said during a discussion with his fellow analysts that he considers the consensus top two QBs in this year's draft, Goff and North Dakota State's to be just as good and maybe even better than the top two QBs in last year's draft,
"The statement I'm going to make to you guys, and you can tell me whether you agree or not, is I'm at the point now with both Wentz and Goff where I think they're every bit as good, if not better, than Winston and Mariota from a year ago as prospects," Mayock said.

NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah responded to Mayock during the broadcast and said that he doesn't quite see it the same way.

"That's strong. I have a little bit lower grade (on Wentz and Goff), Mike," Jeremiah said. "(Winston and Mariota) ended up going 1-2 (overall) and I think when it's all said and done, I think (Goff and Wentz) end up going there in the top seven (picks). I would say that, ceiling-wise, for (Winston and Mariota), I'd put them at a little bit higher ceiling."

The conventional wisdom this draft season has been in line with Jeremiah's take. Mayock's comment reinforces that conventional wisdom is always worthy of being reexamined.

Of course, Winston and Mariota went first and second overall to the Bucs and last year. They entered the draft-evaluation process to much fanfare as highly decorated Heisman winners that had won, in Winston's case, a national title and came within a win of one, in Mariota's case.

Goff and Wentz have not generated the same sizzle as prospects, in part because they, generally, have not been viewed as talents on par with Winston and Mariota. Their backgrounds have a played a role, as well. Goff led Cal to only one bowl (the Armed Forces Bowl this past season) in his three seasons, and Wentz hails from a small school, albeit an FCS powerhouse, in North Dakota State.

The top of the draft order also plays a role in the disparity between the buzz about the two QB duos. A year ago, the Bucs and Titans were picking 1-2. Both teams had huge QB needs and two stars from big-time programs to choose from in Winston and Mariota. This year, the are picking first and aren't in the market for a QB after selecting Mariota. In fact, the Browns, 49ers, Rams (No. 15) and Broncos (No. 31) are the only teams with a glaring need at quarterback this year.

The predominant narrative for much of this draft season has suggested that the ] will take Goff or Wentz at No. 2 and that the QB who doesn't get picked by Cleveland might be waiting a while to hear his name called. Jeremiah mentioned the No. 7 pick, the 49ers' first selection, as a floor for the top two QBs.

The only scenario in which QBs go 1-2 in this year's draft is if a team trades up to No. 1 to take a QB and the Browns (or a different team if the world goes mad and a club also trades up to No. 2) take another with the second pick.

The chances of that happening? Probably slim to none, given the price of moving up.

However, if any team in the market for a QB shares Manock's opinion, perhaps there's more interest in trading up for a QB this year than we once thought.


So what will it take to get one of the two. Here is the rumor of what the Eagles offered for Mariotta (#2): would you pay it?
  • Peter Schrager of FOX Sports mentioned during an appearance on “The Herd” with Colin Cowherd that former Eagles HC Chip Kelly offered the Titans a first- and second-round pick in 2015, first-round pick in 2016 and any quarterback and defensive player on their roster to trade up No. 2 overall and take QB Marcus Mariota. (Liam Jenkins)
  • However, Terry McCormick reports that the Eagles didn’t really offer all of this to the Titans for Mariota and adds that it’s really a moot point anyways, considering that Tennessee liked Mariota too much to trade their pick.
  • Peter Schrager of FOX Sports mentioned during an appearance on “The Herd” with Colin Cowherd that former Eagles HC Chip Kelly offered the Titans a first- and second-round pick in 2015, first-round pick in 2016 and any quarterback and defensive player on their roster to trade up No. 2 overall and take QB Marcus Mariota. (Liam Jenkins)
  • However, Terry McCormick reports that the Eagles didn’t really offer all of this to the Titans for Mariota and adds that it’s really a moot point anyways, considering that Tennessee liked Mariota too much to trade their pick.
    • Peter Schrager of FOX Sports mentioned during an appearance on “The Herd” with Colin Cowherd that former Eagles HC Chip Kelly offered the Titans a first- and second-round pick in 2015, first-round pick in 2016 and any quarterback and defensive player on their roster to trade up No. 2 overall and take QB Marcus Mariota. (Liam Jenkins)
    • However, Terry McCormick reports that the Eagles didn’t really offer all of this to the Titans for Mariota and adds that it’s really a moot point anyways, considering that Tennessee liked Mariota too much to trade their pick.
 
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dieterbrock

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I think size/build is important when talking about guys up high. All have to have enough arm to be there so not mentioning that as a criteria with them. Using my own criteria (size, boldness vs rush/eyes downfield, accuracy, readiness to play) here is how I have them:

1. Luck (highest ranked QB prospect in a long time)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Winston (size and pro style offense, bold in pocket, competitor, would be very close to Luck IF he didn't have off field questions going in to draft)
3. Wentz (size and was required to make some reads, bold in pocket, athlete)
4. Bortles (athlete for his size, raw, bold in pocket)
5. Goff (skinny and slight of build like rest of this group, have him slightly ahead of Mariota and RG3 due to fact offense will not need to be dumbed way down)
6. Mariota (big enough albeit skinny, great athlete, very similar grade to RG3, a project coming in with big upside if he works to learn offense)
6b. RG3 (best athlete of the bunch, amazing on the move, amazing pure throwing talent, but I did not like his tendency to focus on the rush, like Mariota was very raw and needed offense adjusted to start)

IMO the way QBs have been taken, and the relative rankings on them for that matter, are so subjective that it's been all over the place. Bortles, for example, is a guy I would take over Mariota because since they're both raw and need to learn, he is a much better fit for the NFL because QBs get hit and knocked around. RG3 demonstrated almost immediately how much he did not like being hit, and it was a big adjustment for him and tbh I'm still not sure he's up for it. Goff I am very high on, and would take him over both RG3 and Mariota.

Just my .02 and way of looking at it.
What he said
I'd say the exact order
 

jrry32

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I think Luck would go #1. I think Winston and RGIII would go above this year's QBs as well. I think Goff and Wentz would be in the running with Mariota. Mariota might go over both, though. Beyond that, I think Bortles and Tannehill would go before Lynch but Lynch would come after them. I think Cook would fall into the Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Manziel, and Weeden group.

Something like this:
1. Luck

2. RGIII
3. Winston

4. Mariota
5. Goff
6. Wentz

7. Bortles
8. Tannehill

9. Lynch

10. Bridgewater
11. Carr
12. Cook

(I omitted Weeden and Manziel because it still baffles me that they were taken as highly as they were)