When you say" Rams are set @ OT" what does that mean?

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blackbart

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Well how about what we do know..

-the receiver's we had led the league in drops while bradford was QB, a trend that they continued to up hold even with clemens and still managed to finish 7th in drops Despite Being a Run first oriented attack.
-Tavon Austin led the receivers with 40 catches - a franchise low that hasn't broken in some 20+ years... Tight end leads in receiving.. Our recievers struggle catching the ball, identifying hot reads,and gaining separation against even somewhat decent corners...



No, this is also wrong. This was not a run first team after the "philosophy" switch with Bradford- Stacy averaged 16 carries a game with Bradford starting, it was over 23 with Clemens first 3 games... With Bradford, the average was right about middle of the pack.

Lol you can call that line Bs all you want - Jake Long is not old, at all...And he can still perform.

Austin also had the highest number of drops 7 10.1% of targets next highest WR Pettis with 4 6.4%. And another rookie will not come in and do any better at reading defenses and making adjustments than Austin did last year even if he had decent hands in college.

After the switch Bradford threw 34, 16 and 30 (would have been higher trying to come back at the end of the Carolina game) attempts 7 TDs an 1
Rushing attempts those same games 36, 25, and 21
The Rams ended up 9th in the league in rushing with 440 attempts 27.5 per game

Long may not be old yet but he is getting there and has a significant injury history. Barksdale is playing better than expected, certainly better than he did for Oakland. Even if those two play 90% of the snaps available in 2014 that still leaves plenty of plays for someone to fill in and the need to groom someone for 2015 in the event Barksdale leaves.

If they don't take Matthews or Robinson Moses might be a decent pick later in the 1st round.
 

BonifayRam

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@BonifayRam

LOL

I would like an explanation of "Rod'mers". I'm not sure I like the sound of that.

Not sure I have one Selassie I, you do know I consider myself one whatever that means:LOL:
ROD'atarians??? ROD tonians maybe I need to think on that one did not know that it would offend.
Maybe ROD'ers is just a better way to shorten it up. Is that just as bad?
 

iced

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Austin also had the highest number of drops 7 10.1% of targets next highest WR Pettis with 4 6.4%. And another rookie will not come in and do any better at reading defenses and making adjustments than Austin did last year even if he had decent hands in college.

1)Why are you assuming I'm talking about Austin with all these? I'm not
2) Givens had his own fair share of drops; he and quick seemed to be the ones struggling the most with reading defenses and hot reads (not rookies either) - AP had his own issues as well.
3)How can you say this for certain after seeing how other receivers won't come out and play at a high level? (Like some keep eluding too with patterson)...

That's like saying run blocking or pass blocking isn't important for a lineman... Catching the ball for a receiver is paramount...

After the switch Bradford threw 34, 16 and 30 (would have been higher trying to come back at the end of the Carolina game) attempts 7 TDs an 1
Rushing attempts those same games 36, 25, and 21
The Rams ended up 9th in the league in rushing with 440 attempts 27.5 per game

Vs Jags - 24 - 10 lead entering the half. 14 Pass attempts in 2nd half total, (9 rush attempts in 3rd qtr alone), 18 rushing attempts in the 2nd half, with 5 on the last drive. Rams were running out the clock the 2nd half

Vs Texans - this was a game of field position and turn overs. Rams were leading 17-6 entering half, Bradford only threw the ball 6x on one drive in the 3rd quarter, and that was it for the rest of the game. Threw it 6x time, ran it 4 on that drive.Score after that was 24-6, Rams were running the ball to run out the clock the rest of the game (never threw the ball again). 10 rushes in the 2nd half

By the way, when you look at rushing attempts - make sure you don't include the quarterbacks (you included bradford's attempts). The Carolina game, Drich had 1 and Stacy had 17. 30 Pass attempts.

When the game isn't lopsided - the attack is balanced, favoring Bradford a little more. (I'd guess around 60-70% are throws). Good run game to complement play action and visa versa.

Long may not be old yet but he is getting there and has a significant injury history. Barksdale is playing better than expected, certainly better than he did for Oakland. Even if those two play 90% of the snaps available in 2014 that still leaves plenty of plays for someone to fill in and the need to groom someone for 2015 in the event Barksdale leaves.

If they don't take Matthews or Robinson Moses might be a decent pick later in the 1st round.

Barskdale was grading out as a Top 5 RT at one point and continued to play very well. Tackle is not the problem area - it's Guard.

I wouldn't worry about addressing Tackle in 2015 when we need to address Guard now. That's where the glaring hole is.
 

blackbart

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Barskdale was grading out as a Top 5 RT at one point and continued to play very well. Tackle is not the problem area - it's Guard.

I wouldn't worry about addressing Tackle in 2015 when we need to address Guard now. That's where the glaring hole is.

Well obviously you don't remember my post saying that we should use a lower round 1 or 2nd round pick to get Gabe Jackson or that Shawn Lauvoa should get a look in FA.

FWIW Givens drop rate was only 2.4%

Look we both want the same thing a better Rams team we just don't see the needs as the same, as if either of us have any influence on who they pick.
 

Selassie I

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Not sure I have one Selassie I, you do know I consider myself one whatever that means:LOL:
ROD'atarians??? ROD tonians maybe I need to think on that one did not know that it would offend.
Maybe ROD'ers is just a better way to shorten it up. Is that just as bad?


LOLololololol

I don't know ... how bout "The Bad Asses posting here" ?

LOL

I was just busting balls Brudda.
 

Ramifications

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I think you're idea of "Set at" involves a lot of assumptions and crystal ball staring...

It isn't an assumption or crytal ball staring to note things like, oh, I don't know, Barksdale's contract is up in about 12 months, and Long has been hurt repeatedly in recent seasons.
 

iced

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Well obviously you don't remember my post saying that we should use a lower round 1 or 2nd round pick to get Gabe Jackson or that Shawn Lauvoa should get a look in FA.

FWIW Givens drop rate was only 2.4%

Look we both want the same thing a better Rams team we just don't see the needs as the same, as if either of us have any influence on who they pick.

Yea I agree - I just see a lot less at Receiver than I do o-lineman. I can atleast say with confidence we have a hell of a positional coach at OL, definitely can't say the same for receiver... I'd love to get Watkins, a Guard, and a FS with the top 3 picks... but one can dream right
 

iced

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It isn't an assumption or crytal ball staring to note things like, oh, I don't know, Barksdale's contract is up in about 12 months, and Long has been hurt repeatedly in recent seasons.
It is assumption - because you're assuming he doesn't wanna stick around (yet he comes on fan forums and does chats with us)... i mean you haven't even seen him play yet next season or have any idea what we're gonna do in FA/this draft but you're already writing him off as a goner..

that's called assuming...
 

blackbart

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Yea I agree - I just see a lot less at Receiver than I do o-lineman. I can atleast say with confidence we have a hell of a positional coach at OL, definitely can't say the same for receiver... I'd love to get Watkins, a Guard, and a FS with the top 3 picks... but one can dream right
We are all dreamers. I mean look at us our Rams season has been over for 6 weeks but we are still here. LOL
 

Ramifications

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-sigh-

I've already said grab a tackle in the bottom of the 1st (assuming trade down) or anywhere past the 1st where the value meets the selection - but if it ain't BPA, don't spend a premium pick on a position of strength.. I honestly don't understand how so many of you can look at the starting receivers and starting tackles then say "Yep we're set at receiver - we need to draft a tackle!" Again - 2 players at Tackle playing at a high level, one at the very best and top 5 LT...

For receiver - we have to hope for injury or someone to be inactive (Austin Pettis/Tavon Austin) to see else what we "might" have (Stedman Bailey).

"You don't draft a player due to injury" - Les Snead

We could have gotten Pro Bowl WRs Jeffery in the mid-second (he didn't gain 40 lbs. but lost 20 lbs. going into the Combine, easy scratch pick over Quick) or Patterson in the late first, same place you want to get an OL.

Value meets the selection. Robinson has been ranked as high as #2 overall at a premium position of LT. It isn't a position of strength, Long has been hurt repeatedly and just blew out his knee, and Barksdale is signed for just one more year. You THINK we are long term. MAYBE we are long term. But given the facts of Long being injury prone and aging (bad combo) and Barksdale's short term contract status, it is just as speculative to say we *ARE SET* long term as applying the speculative label to those who think we *AREN'T SET*.

Why do we have to be set at either? Assuming others (plural) think we are set at WR isn't necessarily the case. It is possible to acknowledge Watkins would be an upgrade and still value LT more more.

Was Pettis actually injured when Bailey got increasing snaps at his expense in the last month? Or did he just get outplayed and beaten out? That might be kind of important to know. Hard to figure out how the respective BPA value of the two fits into the puzzle of positional need (since they are approx equal value, neither would in actuality be a "positional reach")... if we aren't straight on what that positional need is.

One of the few substantive things Snead said on the NFL channel during a televised Senior Bowl interview were about Stedman Bailey. He made a point to note Bailey started the last few games, was always open and a very QB-friendly WR, also how impressed with the great job he did on ST, when asked to do it, he did it at a high level. He sounded pretty excited about him, and he was one of the few players he made a point of talking about. So if Demoff said something different, he might turn out to be wrong, like with Jefffery being 40 lbs. overweight at the Combine. If two people say something seemingly different, we shouldn't automatically assume Demoff is right (especially when he demonstrably isn't sometimes - see above) and Snead wrong. Snead's vision and voice is also important in the organization.

We shouldn't take things so literally, he might have been trying to illustrate a concept, and not be bound by some kind of ironclad, immutable, inflexible law. Bradford got injured. We got caught with our pants down. They better draft an upgraded backup/developmental-type at the position (not at 1.2-1-4-1.6, because someone like Aaron Murray doesn't grade out there like Robinson, but at the right spot, maybe day three). That is an example of being drafted for injury. If Long and Barksdale are both severely injured in the same freakish offseason lumberjacking accident, I'm guessing that increases the chance they would take Matthews or Robinson, ESPECIALLY if they were graded about the same as Watkins (they are). Drafting due to injury.
 

tonyl711

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just don't see it as a high enough priority to use a first on, you can get a pretty good OT in the second, a spot starter for this year and groom him to be your future starter. if Barksdale is playing good next year I really doubt the Rams let him hit FA they would extend him during the season.
 

Ramifications

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It is assumption - because you're assuming he doesn't wanna stick around (yet he comes on fan forums and does chats with us)... i mean you haven't even seen him play yet next season or have any idea what we're gonna do in FA/this draft but you're already writing him off as a goner..

that's called assuming...

I know what an assumption is, which is why it easy to recognize in you. It's assuming he won't be offered more elsewhere. Have you considered that possibility? Do you know for certain that couldn't happen? Than why lecture about the meaning of assumption? Pot calling the kettle black. You did start with the assumption business, just to get the sequence straight. It is contradictry and hypocritical to fault and criticize others for doing the exact same thing you do yourself all the time (the disputed Jeffery weight example is different, that is a factual mistake).
 

mr.stlouis

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That means we have solid starters but could use some depth guys, like many positions on the Rams.
 

Ramifications

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Sorry I don't read every post from every member and I'm too old to remember what each on said.

I honestly do not think we know what we have at WR because of Bradford's injury in 2013. Before he went down he was in the top of the league TDs and was looking like a career year was sure to come. He seemed to be developing a good rapport with some of the guys and I expect those relationships to grow IF they can all stay healthy. Drafting a WR is just as iffy and can be more so than an OT, you just never know.

I don't see this team ever being a team that has a megatron kind of attitude when it comes to WR. This will be a run first team that throws the ball about 25-30 times a game. The TEs are going to get their share probably 7-10 targets a game. RB's maybe another 5 per game. That leaves about 15-20 throws a game to WR maybe 1 guy gets 5-7 targets a game, MAYBE. I don't see Watkins (presuming that is your choice) being as important to this team as the O line.

And that line from Les Snead is BS you have to replace injured personnel all the time. It happens guys get old and broken and can no longer perform.

Exactly.

Not sure if we are "set" at WR. But we shouldn't assume TE Cook can't do better with Bradford for a full season (which it is important to point out that he is more likely to do if we upgrade the OL with a blue chip, elite flexible LT/RT/guard skill set - not just in 2014, but for the next decade). That helps in the receiving weapons department.

Even WITHOUT Robinson, an upgrade which could elevate both the run and pass game (from guard initially, perhaps, RT or LT later), Bradford got off to a career best start. Which some expected. He had bad OL and WRs before, he didn't do great, surprise, surprise. As soon as we got a good LT (which Long might not be as long as we would like, given his recent tendency to get hurt) and upgraded receiving weapons like Austin and Cook (who did set franchise record for TEs, even without Bradford for half the season), he did better, again, surprise, surprise.

He had a 14/4 TD/INT ratio, which would have projected to 33 TDs. That was breaking in a new TE and rookie WR. Between drops and penalties, he easily could have had 18 TDs, which would have projected to about 40 TDs. Schotty used Austin criminally in the first half of the season. Once he mixed in more diverse routes and changed up his use out of the backfield, he broke out in the IND and CHI games with four 50+ yard TDs. Who does that? Only Hall of Famers Jim Brown and Gale Sayers. I don't get the dire gloom and doom vibe. How many passing TDs do we need to get? 50 TDs? 60 TDs?

* Some may be concerned that Robinson's pass pro is suspect, complicating his long-term LT projection (than draft Matthews if this is a big enough concern to STL). He has been graded as high as 1.2. That is despite the lack of an extensive pass pro body of work and film to go by. It is known, accounted for, and "priced in " as it were to his 1.2 overall grade. He has rare size, strength, agility and athleticism for a big man. With reps and experience, scouts think he has the feet to push speed rushers outside, and the power to defeat inside counters from power rushers. His upside is as big as any prospect in the draft besides Clowney.

Watkins has great upside, too. But if we get him and not OL, doesn't do much to decrease the chance Bradford could get injured. And than Watkins is rendered moot.

Adding Robinson (probably more so Matthews, accomplished pass pro chops), does do a lot to protect Bradford better, and therefore decrease the chance Bradford gets injured. That increases the chance we have Bradford (not just in 2014, but in the future) to use the receiving weapons we already have better and better. With reps and experience, not a stretch to think Cook and rookie Austin could do even better as they gain chemistry, timing and rapport with Bradford?
 
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iced

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We could have gotten Pro Bowl WRs Jeffery in the mid-second (he didn't gain 40 lbs. but lost 20 lbs. going into the Combine, easy scratch pick over Quick) or Patterson in the late first, same place you want to get an OL.

Value meets the selection. Robinson has been ranked as high as #2 overall at a premium position of LT. It isn't a position of strength, Long has been hurt repeatedly and just blew out his knee, and Barksdale is signed for just one more year. You THINK we are long term. MAYBE we are long term. But given the facts of Long being injury prone and aging (bad combo) and Barksdale's short term contract status, it is just as speculative to say we *ARE SET* long term as applying the speculative label to those who think we *AREN'T SET*.

Well it's a good thing the vikings didn't throw in the Towel on Adrian Peterson after his devasting knee injury - one of the best at his position (which btw is a position that demands a hell lot more out of his knee). he'd fit your logic... Age + injury + One of the best at his position

Why do we have to be set at either? Assuming others (plural) think we are set at WR isn't necessarily the case. It is possible to acknowledge Watkins would be an upgrade and still value LT more more.

Another quote from Snead - "I like to take a position of a weakness, and turn it into a strength."

WR is the weakest position on this team - we upgrade at outside receiver, and that dramatically could change with Tavon. Some of the game's best corners are in this division - some of the "worst receivers" are on our team... think about this for a second - The niners and Cardinals have better receivers outwide. Not to mention Who beat Seattle in their own house with a TD near the end of the game? oh yea, michael floyd.... With Carson friggen Palmer at QB..
Was Pettis actually injured when Bailey got increasing snaps at his expense in the last month? Or did he just get outplayed and beaten out? That might be kind of important to know. Hard to figure out how the respective BPA value of the two fits into the puzzle of positional need (since they are approx equal value, neither would in actuality be a "positional reach")... if we aren't straight on what that positional need is.

Stedman Bailey only "started" a few of the games that Tavon was out - @ Arizona and @ seattle..oddly not at home vs Tampa.
One of the few substantive things Snead said on the NFL channel during a televised Senior Bowl interview were about Stedman Bailey. He made a point to note Bailey started the last few games, was always open and a very QB-friendly WR, also how impressed with the great job he did on ST, when asked to do it, he did it at a high level. He sounded pretty excited about him, and he was one of the few players he made a point of talking about. So if Demoff said something different, he might turn out to be wrong, like with Jefffery being 40 lbs. overweight at the Combine. If two people say something seemingly different, we shouldn't automatically assume Demoff is right (especially when he demonstrably isn't sometimes - see above) and Snead wrong. Snead's vision and voice is also important in the organization.

We shouldn't take things so literally, he might have been trying to illustrate a concept, and not be bound by some kind of ironclad, immutable, inflexible law. Bradford got injured. We got caught with our pants down. They better draft an upgraded backup/developmental-type at the position (not at 1.2-1-4-1.6, because someone like Aaron Murray doesn't grade out there like Robinson, but at the right spot, maybe day three). That is an example of being drafted for injury. If Long and Barksdale are both severely injured in the same freakish offseason lumberjacking accident, I'm guessing that increases the chance they would take Matthews or Robinson, ESPECIALLY if they were graded about the same as Watkins (they are). Drafting due to injury.

The problem is everyone now is doing the hindsight pick with Jeffrey - if those concerns that made him fell turned out to be legit, then everyone would be laughing at Chicago for taking him...instead, people are forgetting what made him fall and acting like Nostradamus after the fact (except for jrry32, he had him pegged all the way). Work ethic + overweight? Yea, that's a legit concern... we've had a few of those in our time - wasn't claude woten one of those?

why would he be trying to illustrate a concept about Jeffrey? Doesn't make any sense. 3 teams passed him over and drafted a different WR instead - Kendall Wright (Tennessee #20), Us with Quick, Jets with Stephen Hill.... Jeffrey was the 7th receiver taken in the draft.

Hell here's Mike Mayock in February, 3 months before the draft, saying Jeffrey is not a 1st round pick... again, beauty of hindsight, but the concerns were legit.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...lshon-jeffery-not-worth-a-first-round-pick-2/

Alshon Jeffery does not separate,” said Mayock after watching Gamecocks tape. “What those guys run [at the Combine] is important. He needs to run somewhere in those mid-4.5s.”

Mayock said he’s heard whispers of Jeffery’s suspect conditioning, rumors that may have begun with this picture, believed to have been taken just before the 2011 college season. (Jeffery, No. 1, is on the far left.) For this year’s receiver class, Mayock has first-round grades on Oklahoma State’s Justin Blackmon, Baylor’sKendall Wright, Notre Dame’s Michael Floyd, and LSU’s Rueben Randle.

He doesn’t have one on Jeffery.


Lol don't even try to say Watkins is graded as the Same as Matthews - you and I both have no idea were they rank on their boards and in what order...every club is different.

When snead was talking about 'not drafting due to injury' it was in response to a question about Matthews or another lineman at #2.
 
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Elmgrovegnome

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Barksdale is under contract for 2014 with a salary of $645k. Free agent in 2015.

Yes I am aware that he still will be on the team for another year. But it is a better position to be in if you draft for the future.