Wagoner: Pettis on the bubble

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

HometownBoy

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
3,527
Name
Aaron
For all of Gibson's faults (not knowing where the 1st down line is) and making boneheaded plays too often, Gibson was at least fairly athletic. Far more than Pettis.

Pettis plays a stiff, slow game. Won't shake a guy or really contest a 50/50 ball. Our WR corps, such as it is, has him as starter only on experience. He's a fine 4th or 5th WR you bring in on RZ packages imo. That's about it. Or desperate 3rd downs when you need size and length of the field.

What he's accomplished so far, is pretty much is NFL ceiling imo. He's peaked already.

Man was Spags crap at drafting offensive players.

Gibson and Pettis are like, polar opposites.

Gibson is athletic and can make plays, so much so that he'd be a good addition to a team if he could just get his head in the game, which he just can't seem to do. He can go out and catch 35 yarders all day, but then he'll have them all taken back because he lined up illegally.

While Pettis is rigid and stiff and only good for possession, but he's smart and knows what to do and makes a team better simply by being a guy who you can count on to grab the ball and hold onto it when you need it, he's a short possession guy.

Neither of them were or are the guys we need right now though, just goes to show how good we are at drafting number 2s and 3s.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,786
He's Ricky Proehl. As a #3 or #4, complimentary type WR, Proehl was pretty good. Locked in as a #1 or #2 guy he was not.

I still say that the Rams aren't using him to his strengths. With his hands, he's a back shoulder pass just waiting to happen. All they got to do is dial up the play.

As someone who looked for the organization to move on from Dane Looker yearly, I've come to appreciate what Pettis brings to the team.

Agreed. Having watched the Coach's Film pretty extensively, Pettis was playing well before Sam was hurt. I think if a lot of people here had the opportunity to really focus on Pettis using the Coach's Film, they'd realize he's a better player than he's being given credit for.

He was running crisp routes last year before Sam went down and doing a really nice job of defeating press coverage. Issue was that a lot of the time, we had Pettis running the longer developing routes...which he ran well...but Sam didn't have time to get it to him during the first four games.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Man was Spags crap at drafting offensive players.
That was McDaniels, not Spags. He wanted taller receivers, and said as much, so that's why they ended up with Pettis and Salas. Two receivers who, at the time of their entrance into the NFL, were highly productive college players.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,786
Gibson and Pettis are like, polar opposites.

Gibson is athletic and can make plays, so much so that he'd be a good addition to a team if he could just get his head in the game, which he just can't seem to do. He can go out and catch 35 yarders all day, but then he'll have them all taken back because he lined up illegally.

While Pettis is rigid and stiff and only good for possession, but he's smart and knows what to do and makes a team better simply by being a guy who you can count on to grab the ball and hold onto it when you need it, he's a short possession guy.

Neither of them were or are the guys we need right now though, just goes to show how good we are at drafting number 2s and 3s.

Disagree. Gibson isn't athletic. When he's not making mental mistakes, he's a precise route runner with reliable hands that runs hard after the catch. But he has no explosion in his game and doesn't possess great change of directional skills. Gibson is a possession WR that can move the chains and operates best of the slot.

You're right, though, that Pettis and Gibson are very different. Pettis is also a possession WR that can move the chains and operates best out of the slot. Pettis, like Gibson, also has reliable hands. Where they differ is that Pettis has great change of directional skills and is very fluid. He's lanky and quick. Unlike Gibson, though, Pettis is not physical with the ball in his hands and isn't strong. He doesn't run that well after the catch.

He's, imo, better before the catch than Gibson because he's so much quicker and more fluid but worse after the catch.

Essentially, both are best off in the slot and will likely offer similar production but they go about it in different ways. And Pettis isn't as prone to mental errors as Gibson and is the better red-zone WR.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Disagree. Gibson isn't athletic. When he's not making mental mistakes, he's a precise route runner with reliable hands that runs hard after the catch. But he has no explosion in his game and doesn't possess great change of directional skills. Gibson is a possession WR that can move the chains and operates best of the slot.

You're right, though, that Pettis and Gibson are very different. Pettis is also a possession WR that can move the chains and operates best out of the slot. Pettis, like Gibson, also has reliable hands. Where they differ is that Pettis has great change of directional skills and is very fluid. He's lanky and quick. Unlike Gibson, though, Pettis is not physical with the ball in his hands and isn't strong. He doesn't run that well after the catch.

He's, imo, better before the catch than Gibson because he's so much quicker and more fluid but worse after the catch.

Essentially, both are best off in the slot and will likely offer similar production but they go about it in different ways. And Pettis isn't as prone to mental errors as Gibson and is the better red-zone WR.
I don't know about you, but I was surprised at how well Gibson took to the Y in Miami. After having never played in it before, he was almost exclusively playing it there. And doing a fairly decent job too, in a new offense.
 

TheDYVKX

#TeamMcVay
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
4,703
Name
Sean McVay
Pettis WAS playing pretty well last season under Bradford from what I remember, and there were tons of reports that Pettis was all of a sudden an athletic beast and the best receiver on the team last offseason. It might not all be fabricated, and he might be better than we realize.

And Bradford has the most trust in him over any receiver. So as much as we may dislike Pettis, he's probably staying.

I'd love to see a video on either all attempts to Pettis or all his catches from last season, if one hasn't been made already. I think our bias might be clouding our judgement of how well he may have played.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
I'd love to see a video on either all attempts to Pettis or all his catches from last season, if one hasn't been made already. I think our bias might be clouding our judgement of how well he may have played.
I'll try to finish that one up later. I've got some stuff to do today, but perhaps by tonight it'll be done.
All of his *targets*.
 

Mojo Ram

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
22,889
Name
mojo
My two cents on why Pettis is still on the roster is because the coaches are waiting for any other WR over 5'10" to emerge(Quick,Britt).
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,786
Of course he was. And the idea that he "only" had 38 catches is predicated on league-wide statistics. 38, as it turns out, is good for 3rd on a team that only had 22 freaking touchdowns all year, and a leading receiver who only had 51. Who was a tight-end. If the argument is that Pettis is an ineffective #1 receiver, then duh. This is a team without one, and a team that spreads the ball around instead. So, yeah. 38 receptions is about the average in a situation where there were only 301 pass completions spread across 13 receivers. If they all had an equal share, that would amount to 23 receptions per.

I'm about to have a little statistical fun here. Through the first 7 games, Sam was on pace for 363 completions for the season. Pettis was on pace for 57 receptions. Peyton Manning completed 450 passes in 2013. If Pettis's figure projections with Sam were to hold with Manning's increased volume, that would have been 71 receptions for the season for 713 yards and 11 TDs based on Pettis's early season projections.

So yea, volume is a pretty big deal as is QB play.(because Pettis's numbers took a huge hit with Clemens)
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,786
I don't know about you, but I was surprised at how well Gibson took to the Y in Miami. After having never played in it before, he was almost exclusively playing it there. And doing a fairly decent job too, in a new offense.

I was a little surprised that he played well in the slot but it better suits his skill-set.
 

Athos

Legend
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
5,933
That was McDaniels, not Spags. He wanted taller receivers, and said as much, so that's why they ended up with Pettis and Salas. Two receivers who, at the time of their entrance into the NFL, were highly productive college players.

McDaniels didn't get here until 2011.

I'll admit it wasn't only Spags, it was also Devaney, but as far as offensive players go under the Spags regime you had:

Jason Smith
Brooks Foster
Bradford
Saffold
Gilyard
Illinois Mike
Fendi
Kendricks
Pettis
Salas

Only Saffold, Kendricks, Pettis remain. It really is terrible how piss-poor Spags/Devaney and co drafted, especially in ignoring actual talent with which to surround Bradford with. You use the #1 overall, but do nothing to help him. But the Jags learned their lesson and drafted two guys to help out their top pick in Bortles, after learning their lesson with Gabbert. Painful thinking about how horrible those drafts still were in regards to the O. Yes, the D got some players, but at the total ignorance of the O, which imo, has set back Snisher's developing O, hence all the picks we've had to use at WR and RB in 3 drafts. All that idiocy has forced them to keep all the rooks, who you just don't know about, because we had no really talented WR Vet to fall back up. Pettis is 'that' vet, but not really the kind of vet that will allow you to tinker and work with letting rook WRs develop.


Damn shame. We'll just see. All I'm talking is there probably won't be surprise if Pettis doesn't make it and a UDFA beats him out. As stated, if he's the most reliable WR on team, why does that WR go 5 games without even a single reception?
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,786
As stated, if he's the most reliable WR on team, why does that WR go 5 games without even a single reception?

After Sam got hurt, Pettis went from averaging around 75% of the offensive snaps to around 25%.
 

Memphis Ram

Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
6,579
McDaniels didn't get here until 2011.

Only Saffold, Kendricks, Pettis remain. It really is terrible how pee pee-poor Spags/Devaney and co drafted, especially in ignoring actual talent with which to surround Bradford with. You use the #1 overall, but do nothing to help him. But the Jags learned their lesson and drafted two guys to help out their top pick in Bortles, after learning their lesson with Gabbert. Painful thinking about how horrible those drafts still were in regards to the O. Yes, the D got some players, but at the total ignorance of the O, which imo, has set back Snisher's developing O, hence all the picks we've had to use at WR and RB in 3 drafts. All that idiocy has forced them to keep all the rooks, who you just don't know about, because we had no really talented WR Vet to fall back up. Pettis is 'that' vet, but not really the kind of vet that will allow you to tinker and work with letting rook WRs develop.

Jags learned their lesson? Gabbert's issues had little to do with his weapons and far more to do with his skittishness in the pocket and Chad Henne being a better QB.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,786
Jags learned their lesson? Gabbert's issues had little to do with his weapons and far more to do with his skittishness in the pocket and Chad Henne being a better QB.

Agreed. Gabbert had a Pro Bowl HB(MJD), a Pro Bowl TE(Marcedes), Cecil Shorts who is a quality #2, they drafted Justin Blackmon in the top 5, and they spent big money on Laurent Robinson(obviously a mistake).
 

A55VA6

Legend
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
8,208
I don't know if it's a great idea to get rid of Pettis because honestly he was one of Sam's favorite targets when he needed help.. and Pettis was also productive in the Red Zone more than most of our WR's. I think we need him to be a part of this team some way or another.
 

LesBaker

Mr. Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
17,460
Name
Les
I don't know if it's a great idea to get rid of Pettis because honestly he was one of Sam's favorite targets when he needed help.. and Pettis was also productive in the Red Zone more than most of our WR's. I think we need him to be a part of this team some way or another.

If the other guys develop there may not be a choice, the roster only holds so many guys.
 

Lesson

Oh, really?
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
2,104
I don't understand the criticism for Pettis. He is what he is, similar to Gibson in that regard. He's an above average possession WR who can be used as an offensive weapon. He's not a #1 or #2 WR(Like I think Givens and Bailey can become), however, he does a good job at doing what he's supposed to do.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
McDaniels didn't get here until 2011.
I know. He was in the draft room, and the prevailing voice when those two (Pettis, Salas) were drafted -- in 2011.

That's not to say I absolve Spagnuolo/Devaney of any wrongdoing during their time here.
I was just commenting on why those two were drafted.