Two quotes that I think sum up the Rams...

[DCH]

...both from the ESPN writeup about the game

Asked if he felt like he waited too long to give due attention to building the offense, Fisher demurred.

"No, I thought I made a good decision this offseason," Fisher said. "We've got good coaches, good players; we're just not scoring the points and converting third downs right now. Until we do that, we're not going to win a whole lot of games. That has to change."

He thinks we have good coaches and good players, despite the fact that the coaches cannot scheme for or the players cannot play up to "scoring... points and converting third downs," pretty much the two most important indicators that your offensive personnel and coaching are good.

"This can't be happening every week," cornerback Janoris Jenkins said. "Defense, we are playing great ball, man. All we are asking for is a little bit of help. We can't just keep losing like this."

How long before the D just stops trying? This has been JJ's entire NFL career - hell, Long's entire NFL career - that no matter how good the defense plays, it doesn't matter... they are next to powerless to actually make the Rams a winning team.

I don't understand how Fisher - a defensive player and defensive-minded coach - can build a team that is so simultaneously good on defense and horrible to play defense for.

 

[Psycho_X]

I don't think Janoris wants to be here past this season even if we did give him a contract he thinks he is worth I don't see him sticking around.

But he's right the defense has no help. This is where I don't understand Fisherball philosophy. He wants a ball control offense that eats up the clock. But his offense has never done that. His defenses have been left on the field for huge amounts of time and the offense just gives the ball right back whether its a 3 and out or a turnover what does it matter? I don't understand how that is better than having an offense that pushes the ball down the field and takes a risk here and there? At this point it is moot cause our o-line is so banged up and inept. But still baffles me.

 

[DCH]

I don't think Janoris wants to be here past this season even if we did give him a contract he thinks he is worth I don't see him sticking around.

But he's right the defense has no help. This is where I don't understand Fisherball philosophy. He wants a ball control offense that eats up the clock. But his offense has never done that. His defenses have been left on the field for huge amounts of time and the offense just gives the ball right back whether its a 3 and out or a turnover what does it matter? I don't understand how that is better than having an offense that pushes the ball down the field and takes a risk here and there? At this point it is moot cause our o-line is so banged up and inept. But still baffles me.

In theory, shouldn't a dominant offensive line be the core component of an efficient clock-eating offense?

 

[fearsomefour]

The only way to keep JJ may be to franchise him. If a team with a prospect of winning offers his 11 a year and the Rams offer him 13 for example, and winning matters to him....

 

[DCH]

The only way to keep JJ may be to franchise him. If a team with a prospect of winning offers his 11 a year and the Rams offer him 13 for example, and winning matters to him....

If I'm JJ, I'm probably going to look at Miami and Tampa as a FA. Tampa has built a pretty solid offense and has good defensive pieces, and Miami is an OK team with upside, and both are close to where I grew up. Hard to imagine him staying in STL unless we throw a bank vault at him. Before the season, sure, but his frustration with this offense is boiling over, and I'm sure he wants to play for a team that can win if he and his unit play well.

 

[fearsomefour]

If I'm JJ, I'm probably going to look at Miami and Tampa as a FA. Tampa has built a pretty solid offense and has good defensive pieces, and Miami is an OK team with upside, and both are close to where I grew up. Hard to imagine him staying in STL unless we throw a bank vault at him. Before the season, sure, but his frustration with this offense is boiling over, and I'm sure he wants to play for a team that can win if he and his unit play well.

Or Oakland....young QB, developing team and over 70 million in cap space.
They need DB help too.
No state taxes in Florida either.

 

[DCH]

Or Oakland....young QB, developing team and over 70 million in cap space.
They need DB help too.
No state taxes in Florida either.

Sure. And cap space is going up all over the NFL. I don't think I'd want to play in Oakland, considering the baseball field and chance of hurting yourself defending second base... but JJ is, in my opinion, a true shut-down corner who doesn't get the national respect he deserves. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets close to Richard Sherman money, and offers of such from multiple teams.

 

[fearsomefour]

Sure. And cap space is going up all over the NFL. I don't think I'd want to play in Oakland, considering the baseball field and chance of hurting yourself defending second base... but JJ is, in my opinion, a true shut-down corner who doesn't get the national respect he deserves. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets close to Richard Sherman money, and offers of such from multiple teams.

I agree with this.
Really comes down to his motivation. That is impossible to read from the outside. For some it is only money, and there is nothing wrong with that. For some it is winning above all else and for some it is finding a good "match" with the coaches (DC and Dbacks coach). The Rams could do fine with two of those three categories.

 

[DCH]

I agree with this.
Really comes down to his motivation. That is impossible to read from the outside. For some it is only money, and there is nothing wrong with that. For some it is winning above all else and for some it is finding a good "match" with the coaches (DC and Dbacks coach). The Rams could do fine with two of those three categories.

I expect the money offered to be fairly similar, and JJ sounds like he's frustrated with losing despite great defensive efforts. From his comments, I'd imagine that a chance to win is important to him, and frustration with an individual team is hard to overcome - I fear over the course of his rookie contract, he's started viewing the Rams as a continual source of losing and frustration.

I hope not... dude's a hell of a baller. I really, really wish they'd extended him before the season, or early in the season when they were talking. I want them to retain both him and Tru, along with Barron. But, again, I'm afraid of what the opinion in the defensive huddle is when you put up such tremendous production and fall flat because the offense can't even shit itself properly.

 

[drasconis]

One has to wonder how long before the D goes "Buddy Ryan" on the O? OK not that serious, and they know there are injuries, but darn it has to be frustrating....

 

[Psycho_X]

In theory, shouldn't a dominant offensive line be the core component of an efficient clock-eating offense?

It's the core component of any functional offense just different skill sets depending on what you want to do. The handling of ours in this last offseason might (should) get people fired.

 

[DCH]

It's the core component of any functional offense just different skill sets depending on what you want to do. The handling of ours in this last offseason might (should) get people fired.

I get that they banked on Jake Long, Scott Wells and Rodger Saffold as "vet" players who should have provided stability along the line, but man, their inability or unwillingness to draft and develop OL talent before this past offseason is inexplicable. I feel like they tried... but just kept failing.

"Boudreau feels he can coach Jason Smith and help him live up to his draft status"
"Scott Wells is the top center on the market, we'll take him despite his injury concerns"
"Let's draft Rok Watkins, and develop him so he can start in a year or 2"
"Boudreau made Wayne Hunter and Barry Richardson into decent parts of this OL, he can do it with anyone"
"Saffold played great when put in at RG, we'll give him a big contract"
"Jake Long should be over his injuries, we'll sign him to a big contract"
"Harvey Dahl can be replaced, no problem"
"We'll take Barrett Jones, and he'll be a steal because of his injury" (I totally bit on this one, big time)
"#2 overall, let's take Greg Robinson. He's a physical monster who can maul in the run game while he learns to pass block"
"Jake can play LT while Robinson gets accustomed to playing at the NFL level with NFL concepts"
"OK, let's draft a shitload of offensive linemen and just make the entire OL depth rookies, Greg, Rodger and a journeyman from Atlanta"
"Hey, let's move that rookie guard to the other side of the line"
"Hey, let's move that rookie guard back"

This has been a brief history of Rams offensive line decisions since 2012. I hope you have enjoyed it.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Janoris Jenkins said:
"This can't be happening every week," cornerback Janoris Jenkins said. "Defense, we are playing great ball, man. All we are asking for is a little bit of help. We can't just keep losing like this."

This is the first time I saw this comment... this is scary to me.

 

[SuperMan28]

I don't think Janoris wants to be here past this season even if we did give him a contract he thinks he is worth I don't see him sticking around.

But he's right the defense has no help. This is where I don't understand Fisherball philosophy. He wants a ball control offense that eats up the clock. But his offense has never done that. His defenses have been left on the field for huge amounts of time and the offense just gives the ball right back whether its a 3 and out or a turnover what does it matter? I don't understand how that is better than having an offense that pushes the ball down the field and takes a risk here and there? At this point it is moot cause our o-line is so banged up and inept. But still baffles me.

Agree Jenkins won't stick around. He's seen the long time players like JL55 and CL91 go through the same song and dance year after year. Dang shame because JJ is playing great football.

In theory, shouldn't a dominant offensive line be the core component of an efficient clock-eating offense?

They tried to beef up the line this offseason. Havenstein and Brown appeared to be figuring it out. Todd Gurley hasn't broke a long one since their absence. The injuries to this team year in and out are flat out baffling. But still, you see teams like NE in a very similar situation with youth and injuries and they're not missing a beat. This team under Fisher, Spags, of Linehan hasn't handled that adversity well. Something has to give.

 

[DCH]

Janoris Jenkins said:
"This can't be happening every week," cornerback Janoris Jenkins said. "Defense, we are playing great ball, man. All we are asking for is a little bit of help. We can't just keep losing like this."

This is the first time I saw this comment... this is scary to me.

Same. I don't want to go back to the Josh Gordy/Rod Hood/Nate "Who the Fuck am I?" Ness era of cornerbacking for the Rams. I also don't want to think about how much of that resentment is lurking below the surface of our D players, if it's actually coming out in interviews.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I also don't want to think about how much of that resentment is lurking below the surface of our D players, if it's actually coming out in interviews.

This is what I was getting at... I know Jenkins is a drama queen and all... but it starts somewhere.

Once the players start that stuff, things can spiral downward pretty fast.

 

[bskrilla]

This is where I don't understand Fisherball philosophy. He wants a ball control offense that eats up the clock. But his offense has never done that. His defenses have been left on the field for huge amounts of time and the offense just gives the ball right back whether its a 3 and out or a turnover what does it matter? I don't understand how that is better than having an offense that pushes the ball down the field and takes a risk here and there? At this point it is moot cause our o-line is so banged up and inept. But still baffles me.

It's always confused me as to why you would build a dominant defense that's capable of dismantling teams and then want a "low risk" or clock-eating running offense.

With a great defense wouldn't you want a high risk/high reward offense because you have a defense that can bail you out?! I feel like a more high-risk offense plays plays to your strengths by giving you the potential for more scores while still banking on the strength of your team, the defense, to bail you out on the times that you fail.

Now you just have a less than mundane offense and a dominant defense that's tired of watching games slip away because we can't score any points.

 

[TexasRam]

How hard can it be to actually throw an accurate ball on third and 5?

Fisher pushed panic button on Foles too quick. Yes some of Foles throws were dogshit but let's remember all the 3rd down drops right in the hands of Jared Cook Britt even Tavon.

Let's get Foles back in there with Welker and throw the dam ball without fear.

Files needs to setup quick and get the ball out quick to non Cook Players and get this team rolling.

 

[Rams43]

Janoris Jenkins said:
"This can't be happening every week," cornerback Janoris Jenkins said. "Defense, we are playing great ball, man. All we are asking for is a little bit of help. We can't just keep losing like this."

This is the first time I saw this comment... this is scary to me.

Yep, Rmfnit.

And you know what else is kinda funny about that JJ quote?

We Ram fans could be saying the same exact damned thing. "This can't be happening every week".

I suspect that Fisher might be very close to losing his team.

Many beat writers and fans have already jumped ship.

 

[Merlin]

He thinks we have good coaches and good players, despite the fact that the coaches cannot scheme for or the players cannot play up to "scoring... points and converting third downs," pretty much the two most important indicators that your offensive personnel and coaching are good.

This pretty much nails Fish. He is far more accepting of subpar play from his offense for some infuriating, inexplicable reason. He put up with poor offense for 3 years under Schotty with convenient excuses of QB and OL injuries, ignoring the fact that even during stretches where players were healthy the offense was crappy. And he will probably try to keep Cigs around even after this offense has performed even worse than last year.

Meanwhile he was very quick to replace DCs until he got the right guy in there. Which of course is the side of the ball that performs, imagine that.

Kroenke needs to fire him now along with Cigs so he can have a fishin buddy. Let Williams have the rest of the season and see what he can do. Give the offense to Boras; his running game has been the only part of the offense, albeit briefly, that has performed at all. Maybe Boras has what it takes and if not no worries we get a better draft pick for a QB.

 

[FrankenRam]

It's always confused me as to why you would build a dominant defense that's capable of dismantling teams and then want a "low risk" or clock-eating running offense.

With a great defense wouldn't you want a high risk/high reward offense because you have a defense that can bail you out?! I feel like a more high-risk offense plays plays to your strengths by giving you the potential for more scores while still banking on the strength of your team, the defense, to bail you out on the times that you fail.

Now you just have a less than mundane offense and a dominant defense that's tired of watching games slip away because we can't score any points.

THANK YOU! I've been wondering how Fish reconciles this dichotomy in his own head as well.

He's willing to play a 'bend but don't break' defense because it makes the opposition's O go on long sustained drives to score. So apparently, he thinks that's an advantage for the defense.

But then he turns around and wants to play an offense that is designed to what....go on long sustained drives to score.....to 'eat up the clock'. But if long sustained drives are an advantage for the D, then it's an advantage for the opposition's D as well, and he's playing right into their hands.

I don't get it at all. But have never said anything because I figured *I* must be crazy to think that if nobody else does. I mean, I'd like to think I'm a reasonably intelligent person. But by the same token, it's a cinch I won't ever remotely have my name mentioned in the same breath as Einstein. Not a freakin' chance.