Todd Gurley trade for David Johnson?

[BeachRam78]

Now this is just a ridiculous statement.

If David Johnson was on the Rams with the box stacked like it was ALL the time when Gurley was on the field then he would have never had the numbers that he did in the loaded offense that you have in Arizona. Gurley was our offense last year and everyone in the NFL knew it. So by no means was that statement ridiculous. Yes I'm a homer because I'm a Rams fan but Todd Gurley was still taken 10th overall with an acl injury for a reason. Johnson was a small school kid that surprised everyone.

 

[drasconis]

Are you seriously saying that if a team offered the Rams 2 1sts they would trade away goff? C'mon man.

.

your ignoring the replacement player of near (Though maybe not equal talent)

the offer being debated
Gurley ->Johnson +2 1st picks

so hypothetically you would use it using the similar match-ups (not just based on what the cards have vs rams)
so would you trade:
Goff -> Wentz +2 1st round picks
Donald -> for either Floyd or Dareus +2 1st round picks


I gotta disagree with jerry above also...I think most experts would say make the trade as RB careers are so iffy. It is great to say that Gurley could be the next AP, but he has 1 year in. Yes it was a really good year, but RB have short shelf lives, heavily used RB even more so. Injury concerns plus wear down have ended many a bright young RB. if you can get a quality young replacement player and the draft picks that is the way you go. Johnson isn't a considered only an average guy, he is the same age, is a rising star. I think most would say Gurley is the better player and has the "potential" to be great/legendary....but the likelihood especially at RB make the trade with +2 1st worth it.

 

[Cardncub]

If the person is actually knowledgeable, they would not agree. The Cardinals are a playoff caliber team. Todd Gurley is potentially an elite HB. He has Adrian Peterson type potential. You don't trade a 21 year old potentially elite player for two likely late first round picks and a good HB. Elite NFL players are rare. Two first round picks would not get you J.J. Watt, Aaron Donald, Luke Kuechly, etc. A first round pick gives you a 40% to 50% chance of selecting a quality NFL starter. Why would I take two of those chances of selecting a quality NFL starter when I have a potentially elite one? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

If Todd Gurley were any other HB, I would happily make that trade. But I'm not trading a guy who showed what he did as a rookie. I'm keeping him.

And the exception would be maybe Donald? HA! You're not getting Donald, Quinn, Goff, or Gurley for two first round picks.(unless Quinn's back issues are worse than let on)

Now this is an intelligent response & one I can agree with. When people say 1st round picks I'm assuming they are early picks as in 1-10. I was thinking about where the Cards would be. That would be closer to early 2nd round. I can agree with you there.

 

[Cardncub]

If David Johnson was on the Rams with the box stacked like it was ALL the time when Gurley was on the field then he would have never had the numbers that he did in the loaded offense that you have in Arizona. Gurley was our offense last year and everyone in the NFL knew it. So by no means was that statement ridiculous. Yes I'm a homer because I'm a Rams fan but Todd Gurley was still taken 10th overall with an acl injury for a reason. Johnson was a small school kid that surprised everyone.

So you know how DJ would play on the Rams without him actually playing on the team? Wow, do you know this weeks lottery numbers as well?

 

[NateDawg122]

So you know how DJ would play on the Rams without him actually playing on the team? Wow, do you know this weeks lottery numbers as well?

Of course it's speculation but it's an entirely reasonable one. DJ is not even close to Gurley when it comes to running the ball. Gurley is faster, stronger, and has better vision.

 

[jrry32]

your ignoring the replacement player of near (Though maybe not equal talent)

the offer being debated
Gurley ->Johnson +2 1st picks

so hypothetically you would use it using the similar match-ups (not just based on what the cards have vs rams)
so would you trade:
Goff -> Wentz +2 1st round picks
Donald -> for either Floyd or Dareus +2 1st round picks


I gotta disagree with jerry above also...I think most experts would say make the trade as RB careers are so iffy. It is great to say that Gurley could be the next AP, but he has 1 year in. Yes it was a really good year, but RB have short shelf lives, heavily used RB even more so. Injury concerns plus wear down have ended many a bright young RB. if you can get a quality young replacement player and the draft picks that is the way you go. Johnson isn't a considered only an average guy, he is the same age, is a rising star. I think most would say Gurley is the better player and has the "potential" to be great/legendary....but the likelihood especially at RB make the trade with +2 1st worth it.

I'm turning it down. Johnson is not the same age. He's a talented kid, but he doesn't have the same upside.

You don't trade players in their early 20s who have shown superstar potential. It doesn't happen in the NFL.

IMO, it's an incredibly shortsighted plan. People overvalue picks. A draft pick gives you an opportunity to draft a player. You're not guaranteed to get a successful player. How many draft picks did the Rams waste from 2000 to 2010? Snead and Fisher are far better than the guys making those picks, but even the best miss from time to time.

The only things that would cause me to trade a young potential superstar would be:
1) Another young potential superstar at a position I valued more; or
2) Character problems; or
3) The young potential superstar refusing to re-sign or play.

Otherwise, I'm keeping my guys. I'll take the risk. I'd prefer that risk than the risk of not finding great/elite players in the first round, which is far greater.

For example, let's say the Rams trade Donald for Sharrif Floyd and two firsts. With those two firsts, they come away with players equivalent to Michael Brockers and Tavon Austin. That's not a bad outcome for draft picks. You didn't pick a bust. You took two guys who are quality contributors. But you also gave up one of the best players in the NFL for 3 guys who are quality but nowhere near elite. Those three guys don't have near the impact of an Aaron Donald.

 

[drasconis]

I'm turning it down. Johnson is not the same age. He's a talented kid, but he doesn't have the same upside.

You don't trade players in their early 20s who have shown superstar potential. It doesn't happen in the NFL.

IMO, it's an incredibly shortsighted plan. People overvalue picks. A draft pick gives you an opportunity to draft a player. You're not guaranteed to get a successful player. How many draft picks did the Rams waste from 2000 to 2010? Snead and Fisher are far better than the guys making those picks, but even the best miss from time to time.

The only things that would cause me to trade a young potential superstar would be:
1) Another young potential superstar at a position I valued more; or
2) Character problems; or
3) The young potential superstar refusing to re-sign or play.

Otherwise, I'm keeping my guys. I'll take the risk. I'd prefer that risk than the risk of not finding great/elite players in the first round, which is far greater.

For example, let's say the Rams trade Donald for Sharrif Floyd and two firsts. With those two firsts, they come away with players equivalent to Michael Brockers and Tavon Austin. That's not a bad outcome for draft picks. You didn't pick a bust. You took two guys who are quality contributors. But you also gave up one of the best players in the NFL for 3 guys who are quality but nowhere near elite. Those three guys don't have near the impact of an Aaron Donald.

I get what you are saying, and for instance I think Donald is a way different than Gurley. I would say most experts would not take the trade for Donald but would for Gurley. The positions are valued differently and the lifespan/career arc is very different between them. While there are never any guarantees, the risk of career changing injury and or physical burn out are a lot lower at DT. The list of guys that started spectacular and flamed out or dropped to average is loooong for RB. You see this in how premier backs move around between teams in the league. You see this much less in high end DT.

I also disagree that 3x quality does not equal one elite. You are talking 3 quality cost controlled players for 1 elite cost controlled. The rams had the extra picks and thus got Austin and Brockers rather than having to go FA to fill those holes. But as is happening with the Rams now talent leaves you either need to keep other costs low to pay it (or its replacement) or you need to draft to replace it. Look at this way you can either have Donald or you have Floyd plus a replacement for Brockers or TJ next year (when they becomes a FA) plus a replacement for either Ogletree or Robinson in 2018 (when they may become FA or too costly). that doesn't take into consideration that you can always trade down to get extra picks from those 1s. Even with that it is a very difficult trade to make...AD is elite and the position is not what I would consider high risk (unlike RB). I probably wouldn't make it, but I do not think it is a definite hell no...an organization would have to think it over.

I also understand that you feel that picks are over valued and that they are only a shot at a good player not a promise of one....but that is why multiple picks become even more valuable. The Rams had that the last few years and doubling picks got them a lot of talent. 2014 Robinson & Donald...If the rams had only one pick who know who they would have ended up with. If they hadn't been able to draft Robinson would they have still taken Donald at 13 or would they have moved up to get a OL.

Now any trade like this is purely hypothetical, teams don't make these trades for fear of being on the losing side and because teams rarely have a near equivalent to trade away. Add in the fact that 1s have vastly different values based on the team. If you can get future 1s from the Browns they are valued high based on the current team and team history....1s from the Packers or Pats.....much much lower value.

 

[jrry32]

The list of guys that started spectacular and flamed out or dropped to average is loooong for RB. You see this in how premier backs move around between teams in the league. You see this much less in high end DT.

We just saw Ndamukong Suh leave the Lions and head to the Dolphins.

Gurley is Gurley. How many guys with Gurley's pedigree started spectacularly and flamed out?

I also disagree that 3x quality does not equal one elite. You are talking 3 quality cost controlled players for 1 elite cost controlled. The rams had the extra picks and thus got Austin and Brockers rather than having to go FA to fill those holes. But as is happening with the Rams now talent leaves you either need to keep other costs low to pay it (or its replacement) or you need to draft to replace it. Look at this way you can either have Donald or you have Floyd plus a replacement for Brockers or TJ next year (when they becomes a FA) plus a replacement for either Ogletree or Robinson in 2018 (when they may become FA or too costly). that doesn't take into consideration that you can always trade down to get extra picks from those 1s. Even with that it is a very difficult trade to make...AD is elite and the position is not what I would consider high risk (unlike RB). I probably wouldn't make it, but I do not think it is a definite hell no...an organization would have to think it over.

It's a hell no. Three quality players do not equal an elite player. That's just not how things work in football. There are too few elite players.

The Texans would laugh you out of the building if you offered them Alec Ogletree, Trumaine Johnson, and T.J. McDonald for J.J. Watt. Those are three quality defensive players. But you don't trade a J.J. Watt for a few quality players.

I also understand that you feel that picks are over valued and that they are only a shot at a good player not a promise of one....but that is why multiple picks become even more valuable. The Rams had that the last few years and doubling picks got them a lot of talent. 2014 Robinson & Donald...If the rams had only one pick who know who they would have ended up with. If they hadn't been able to draft Robinson would they have still taken Donald at 13 or would they have moved up to get a OL.

That doesn't make them more valuable than an established player.

Now any trade like this is purely hypothetical, teams don't make these trades for fear of being on the losing side and because teams rarely have a near equivalent to trade away. Add in the fact that 1s have vastly different values based on the team. If you can get future 1s from the Browns they are valued high based on the current team and team history....1s from the Packers or Pats.....much much lower value.

Teams don't make trades like this because they don't want to part with young talent for unknowns. It gives the fans and the team the wrong impression. Plus, it's a huge risk for not enough reward.

 

[1maGoh]

Injury risk at the position to be traded is irrelevant unless you're trading for a significantly younger players. If they are both in a high risk position then what does that risk matter? It's a wash. You might as well keep the younger player with the superior outlook.

And you don't trade players who performed great on a bad offense for players who performed good on a great offense. The likelihood that their game doesn't hold up by itself, not surrounded by other great players, is significantly greater than the great player not performing up to par.

 

[drasconis]

We just saw Ndamukong Suh leave the Lions and head to the Dolphins.

ummmm one example of free agent....I did NOT say it doesn't happen, just that it is much less common. Top end RB that have moved recently - McCoy, Murray to a lesser extent a guy like Ivory (5th in rushing yards last year)

Gurley is Gurley. How many guys with Gurley's pedigree started spectacularly and flamed out?

First what pedigree....top 10 pick?
Williams is a good example, Great rookie year ....injuries ended it quick, or a guy like Johnson who was the second coming but too much use burned him down to "good"

It's a hell no. Three quality players do not equal an elite player. That's just not how things work in football. There are too few elite players.
The Texans would laugh you out of the building if you offered them Alec Ogletree, Trumaine Johnson, and T.J. McDonald for J.J. Watt. Those are three quality defensive players. But you don't trade a J.J. Watt for a few quality players.

You are using an extreme example here....you are going beyond elite to legendary. Watt is HoF, the best defensive player in FB the last SEVERAL years. By the same token you couldn't trade Goff with 2 1st for Brady....doesn't matter that Brady is old and Goff is young. Gurley isn't in this class to anyone but Rams fans...he has had one really good rookie year....that is it at this point.

This is closer to trying to trade Goff or Mariota and two 1st for Winston.

 

[shaunpinney]

Johnson is a very good HB, and had a dynamic second half to last season, but I don't think he has as high a ceiling as Gurley, who also had a dynamic season. It's not long ago that Zac Stacy hit over 1000 yards in a season (2013) and Tre Mason over 900 yards (2014) look whats happened to those 2 guys. David Johnson picked up 457 of his yards as a pass catcher, which is excellent, but it does show that Arizona has a far better passing game than the Rams, they have more weapons, weapons that need to be covered, sometimes double coverage which can leave him wide open. The Rams don't have that luxury (yet)

As college careers went I would chose TG over DJ.

As Rookie seasons went I would still choose TG, give him someone that can pass the ball at QB and his stats are going to sky-rocket.

Todd Gurley
G: 13 Yds: 1106 Avg: 4.8 Lng: 71T TD: 10 Rec Yds: 188 Rec Avg: 9 Lng: 31 TD: 0

David Johnson
G: 16 Yds: 581 Avg: 4.6 Lng: 47T TD: 8 Rec Yds: 457 Rec Avg: 12.7 Lng: 55T TD: 4

 

[jrry32]

ummmm one example of free agent....I did NOT say it doesn't happen, just that it is much less common. Top end RB that have moved recently - McCoy, Murray to a lesser extent a guy like Ivory (5th in rushing yards last year)

Ivory and Murray aren't premier HBs. This would be like me claiming that Jason Hatcher leaving Dallas is an example of a premier DT changing teams.

McCoy is arguable. But then again, I have more examples of DTs. Let's see:
Reggie White
Warren Sapp
John Randle
La'Roi Glover
Justin Smith
Trevor Pryce
Richard Seymour
Pat Williams
Ted Washington
Sam Adams
Haloti Ngata
Albert Haynesworth
Marcus Stroud
Kris Jenkins
Shaun Rogers

First what pedigree....top 10 pick?
Williams is a good example, Great rookie year ....injuries ended it quick, or a guy like Johnson who was the second coming but too much use burned him down to "good"

Yep. Top pick. Elite prospect. That pedigree.

Williams as in Cadillac? His rookie year was pretty average. And then he shredded his knee.

Johnson had six straight 1000 yard seasons, set the NFL record for yards from scrimmage, and posted a 2000+ yard season after a strong rookie year. Not exactly a guy who fell off after a great rookie year.

Too much use burned him down after a few years. But he also wasn't/isn't built like Gurley. And I don't care if Gurley is only great/elite for 6-8 years. That's still 6-8 years of great/elite play.

You are using an extreme example here....you are going beyond elite to legendary. Watt is HoF, the best defensive player in FB the last SEVERAL years. By the same token you couldn't trade Goff with 2 1st for Brady....doesn't matter that Brady is old and Goff is young. Gurley isn't in this class to anyone but Rams fans...he has had one really good rookie year....that is it at this point.

This is closer to trying to trade Goff or Mariota and two 1st for Winston.

No. It's not even remotely close to that. It would be more like trying to trade Mike Glennon and two firsts for Winston. Johnson was a third round pick. He looked pretty good as a rookie. That falls far short of a #1 or #2 overall pick like Goff or Mariota.

As for J.J. Watt, he had a good rookie year. If we were judging him after his rookie year, you'd be saying, "Trade him" using your logic here. How silly would that be in hindsight? In fact, I can't think of a better example of why it's not a good idea to trade an elite talent who played well as a rookie.

 

[drasconis]

Ivory and Murray aren't premier HBs. This would be like me claiming that Jason Hatcher leaving Dallas is an example of a premier DT changing teams.
McCoy is arguable. But then again,

Ok now I know you aren't being reasonable.....Murray and McCoy aren't premier HB but somehow Gurley is? You are jumping the shark here man.
McCoy and Murray have both had recent years leading the league.

I have more examples of DTs. Let's see:
Reggie White
Warren Sapp
John Randle
La'Roi Glover
Justin Smith
Trevor Pryce
Richard Seymour
Pat Williams
Ted Washington
Sam Adams
Haloti Ngata
Albert Haynesworth
Marcus Stroud
Kris Jenkins
Shaun Rogers

Dear lord once again not listening, didn't say never said not as much....I could make a list that is far longer for RB and you know it, heck to make your list you had to go back over 20 years..../sigh

Yep. Top pick. Elite prospect. That pedigree.
Williams as in Cadillac? His rookie year was pretty average. And then he shredded his knee.

so lets see, on pedigree...actually better by 5 picks than Gurley
pretty average rookie year??? huh? he was ROY, started with 3 straight games over 100yrds (and did it 6 times that season)...injured his foot missed games and fought through it for for several others...still broke 1100yrds as a rookie. I am starting to wonder why you are so excited about Gurley....It seems like you find his rookie year "pretty average".

Johnson had six straight 1000 yard seasons, set the NFL record for yards from scrimmage, and posted a 2000+ yard season after a strong rookie year. Not exactly a guy who fell off after a great rookie year.

Actually he still proves my point fine, I am not saying a drop off from just the rookie year I am talking about young RB that start off hot and drop off. Yes Johnson had a GREAT 2nd year and the drop off from there was huge, he was still good, but everyone was anointing him to the HoF after year 2, something that just a few years later seems very unlikely.

You have on serious Rams blinders when it comes to Gurley.

As far as any point you have about Watt your not making it as you can't stick to a point with him. First it was Gurley is like him and is untradable (which was comparing apples and oranges as I pointed out), now it he was average as a rookie with the point seeming to be gotta stick with talented young guys cause they could be great (which isn't being argued here at all)....two completely different points and never refuting the what I have said.

Saying that they aren't even close is showing a pure Rams bias or an over emphasis on "pedigree" . Somehow Johnsons 1038 yrds and 12TD are completely crushed by Gurleys 1294yrds and 10TDs? It is reasonable to say Gurley is better but completely disingenuous to act like Johnson didn't have a VERY good rookie year and is reasonably considered a up and coming star RB.

We can both agree no team or teams are going to make these trades...no one actually thinks they are...this was a pure theoretical conversation. The reason it doesn't happen is that every team, on both sides, is worried they are going to end up looking bad. Such a trade is a huge risk for both teams and GMs don't gamble their careers too often.

 

[jrry32]

Ok now I know you aren't being reasonable.....Murray and McCoy aren't premier HB but somehow Gurley is? You are jumping the shark here man.
McCoy and Murray have both had recent years leading the league.

No. I've been pretty clear that I'm keeping Gurley for what I think he'll become. Murray led the league because he was behind the best OL in the NFL and got fed the ball. He's always been a good HB at best. Dude isn't elite. Adrian Peterson is a premier HB. It's arguable that there aren't any others currently in the NFL. Although, I'd certainly listen to an argument that Jamaal Charles and Le'Veon Bell are in that club as well. Maybe LeSean McCoy too. But McCoy is more of a toss-up for me.

Dear lord once again not listening, didn't say never said not as much....I could make a list that is far longer for RB and you know it, heck to make your list you had to go back over 20 years..../sigh

Yea, I had to go back over 20 years to find a good-sized list of great/elite DTs who changed teams when they were still effective players.

Probably because NFL teams don't allow a lot of great/elite players to change teams.

Let's do it for HBs:
LeSean McCoy
Marshall Faulk
Clinton Portis
Marshawn Lynch
Curtis Martin
Jerome Bettis
Ricky Watters
Ahman Green
Priest Holmes
Stephen Davis
Edgerrin James
Ricky Williams
Jamal Lewis
Michael Turner

Anyone I miss?

so lets see, on pedigree...actually better by 5 picks than Gurley
pretty average rookie year??? huh? he was ROY, started with 3 straight games over 100yrds (and did it 6 times that season)...injured his foot missed games and fought through it for for several others...still broke 1100yrds as a rookie. I am starting to wonder why you are so excited about Gurley....It seems like you find his rookie year "pretty average".

Todd Gurley
12 starts
223 carries
1097 rushing yards
4.9 yards per carry
10 rushing TDs

Cadillac Williams
14 starts
290 carries
1178 yards
4.1 yards per carry
6 rushing TDs

Do I really need to explain why one is much more impressive than the other?

Actually he still proves my point fine, I am not saying a drop off from just the rookie year I am talking about young RB that start off hot and drop off. Yes Johnson had a GREAT 2nd year and the drop off from there was huge, he was still good, but everyone was anointing him to the HoF after year 2, something that just a few years later seems very unlikely.

You have on serious Rams blinders when it comes to Gurley.

The dude had one of the best years in NFL history. You're insane if you think you're not going to drop off from that. And this was a guy whose skill-set declined faster than most because of how reliant he was on his speed. He took a lot of carries and lost a step. Gurley has an all-around game that Johnson doesn't have. Because Gurley is 6'1" 220. There's this 6'1" 220 pound HB in Minnesota still going quite strong right now.

Don't get upset and accuse me of being a homer because I don't agree with your opinion. If you can't discuss this issue on the merits, concede and move on.

As far as any point you have about Watt your not making it as you can't stick to a point with him. First it was Gurley is like him and is untradable (which was comparing apples and oranges as I pointed out), now it he was average as a rookie with the point seeming to be gotta stick with talented young guys cause they could be great (which isn't being argued here at all)....two completely different points and never refuting the what I have said.

I'm in total disbelief here. Do you not realize how these two points are connected? Do you not understand that this goes to the essence of my argument? These aren't different or conflicting points, and they absolutely conflict with what you have said.

I'll explain the connection. I don't want to trade Gurley because he is an elite talent who already showed flashes of greatness during his rookie year. While he was not an elite NFL player as a rookie, he is already a good to great NFL player. This connects to Watt because Watt was the exact same way. He was an elite talent who showed flashes of greatness during his rookie year. He was a good but not elite player during his rookie year. Looking back from where we are, the Texans would have been absolute fools to trade Watt.

That is the connection. Gurley isn't untouchable to me because he's elite already. He's untouchable to me because I think he can and most likely will be elite. You say it would be stupid to trade J.J. Watt now. I say that it would have been stupid to trade him after his rookie year. I think we both agree on that. Which is why I think it's a bad idea to trade Gurley. You ride it out and see what he becomes. Because you don't want to be the guy looking back in 10 years realizing that you traded the J.J. Watt of runningbacks.

Saying that they aren't even close is showing a pure Rams bias or an over emphasis on "pedigree" . Somehow Johnsons 1038 yrds and 12TD are completely crushed by Gurleys 1294yrds and 10TDs? It is reasonable to say Gurley is better but completely disingenuous to act like Johnson didn't have a VERY good rookie year and is reasonably considered a up and coming star RB.

Yes. Johnson's rookie year was crushed by Gurley's. Johnson essentially operated as a 3rd down HB and a KR for most of the year. When he finally did step in as a starter, he stepped in as an afterthought on one of the NFL's best offenses. Meanwhile, Todd Gurley carried the Rams offense. He was the Rams offense.

Despite the TREMENDOUS differences in supporting casts, Gurley still average more rushing yards per start and a better yard per carry average than David Johnson. And it wasn't that close. When you watched them play, the difference between the two was even greater. Don't get me wrong. Johnson is a talented kid. But he's talented in the Matt Forte type of way. Todd Gurley is talented in the Adrian Peterson type of way.

Here are their rushing numbers over their starts:
Todd Gurley
12 starts
223 carries
1097 rushing yards
4.9 yards per carry
10 rushing TDs

David Johnson
7 starts
120 carries
537 rushing yards
4.5 yards per carry
5 rushing TDs

We can both agree no team or teams are going to make these trades...no one actually thinks they are...this was a pure theoretical conversation. The reason it doesn't happen is that every team, on both sides, is worried they are going to end up looking bad. Such a trade is a huge risk for both teams and GMs don't gamble their careers too often.

Right. Because nobody wants to be the guy who traded away a young HOFer for less than what he's worth.

 

[drasconis]

No. I've been pretty clear that I'm keeping Gurley for what I think he'll become. Murray led the league because he was behind the best OL in the NFL and got fed the ball. He's always been a good HB at best. Dude isn't elite. Adrian Peterson is a premier HB. It's arguable that there aren't any others currently in the NFL. Although, I'd certainly listen to an argument that Jamaal Charles and Le'Veon Bell are in that club as well. Maybe LeSean McCoy too. But McCoy is more of a toss-up for me.



Yea, I had to go back over 20 years to find a good-sized list of great/elite DTs who changed teams when they were still effective players.

Probably because NFL teams don't allow a lot of great/elite players to change teams.

Let's do it for HBs:
LeSean McCoy
Marshall Faulk
Clinton Portis
Marshawn Lynch
Curtis Martin
Jerome Bettis
Ricky Watters
Ahman Green
Priest Holmes
Stephen Davis
Edgerrin James
Ricky Williams
Jamal Lewis
Michael Turner

Anyone I miss?



Todd Gurley
12 starts
223 carries
1097 rushing yards
4.9 yards per carry
10 rushing TDs

Cadillac Williams
14 starts
290 carries
1178 yards
4.1 yards per carry
6 rushing TDs

Do I really need to explain why one is much more impressive than the other?



The dude had one of the best years in NFL history. You're insane if you think you're not going to drop off from that. And this was a guy whose skill-set declined faster than most because of how reliant he was on his speed. He took a lot of carries and lost a step. Gurley has an all-around game that Johnson doesn't have. Because Gurley is 6'1" 220. There's this 6'1" 220 pound HB in Minnesota still going quite strong right now.

Don't get upset and accuse me of being a homer because I don't agree with your opinion. If you can't discuss this issue on the merits, concede and move on.



I'm in total disbelief here. Do you not realize how these two points are connected? Do you not understand that this goes to the essence of my argument? These aren't different or conflicting points, and they absolutely conflict with what you have said.

I'll explain the connection. I don't want to trade Gurley because he is an elite talent who already showed flashes of greatness during his rookie year. While he was not an elite NFL player as a rookie, he is already a good to great NFL player. This connects to Watt because Watt was the exact same way. He was an elite talent who showed flashes of greatness during his rookie year. He was a good but not elite player during his rookie year. Looking back from where we are, the Texans would have been absolute fools to trade Watt.

That is the connection. Gurley isn't untouchable to me because he's elite already. He's untouchable to me because I think he can and most likely will be elite. You say it would be stupid to trade J.J. Watt now. I say that it would have been stupid to trade him after his rookie year. I think we both agree on that. Which is why I think it's a bad idea to trade Gurley. You ride it out and see what he becomes. Because you don't want to be the guy looking back in 10 years realizing that you traded the J.J. Watt of runningbacks.



Yes. Johnson's rookie year was crushed by Gurley's. Johnson essentially operated as a 3rd down HB and a KR for most of the year. When he finally did step in as a starter, he stepped in as an afterthought on one of the NFL's best offenses. Meanwhile, Todd Gurley carried the Rams offense. He was the Rams offense.

Despite the TREMENDOUS differences in supporting casts, Gurley still average more rushing yards per start and a better yard per carry average than David Johnson. And it wasn't that close. When you watched them play, the difference between the two was even greater. Don't get me wrong. Johnson is a talented kid. But he's talented in the Matt Forte type of way. Todd Gurley is talented in the Adrian Peterson type of way.

Here are their rushing numbers over their starts:
Todd Gurley
12 starts
223 carries
1097 rushing yards
4.9 yards per carry
10 rushing TDs

David Johnson
7 starts
120 carries
537 rushing yards
4.5 yards per carry
5 rushing TDs



Right. Because nobody wants to be the guy who traded away a young HOFer for less than what he's worth.

All I can say is the koolaid is strong in you....not going to go farther on this, you jumped the shark on pretty much every point....

 

[NateDawg122]

All I can say is the koolaid is strong in you....not going to go farther on this, you jumped the shark on pretty much every point....

No he hasn't, Jerry just knows his football. He and I both recognize that Gurley has more in the tank then what he showed last year. I watched every single carry Todd had in college. If Gurley returns to what he was in 2014 then he'll be the best back in the NFL and it won't really be close. He has way more talent then DJ has. He's bigger, faster, stronger, and has better vision.

 

[tempests]

Twenty years ago, the Rams traded a young, star RB before he hit his prime. The HC and GM that pushed for it got fired. the RB ended up in Canton. It may well be the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done.

I can't believe anyone would even advocate repeating this mistake.

 

[jrry32]

Twenty years ago, the Rams traded a young, star RB before he hit his prime. The HC and GM that pushed for it got fired. the RB ended up in Canton. It may well be the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done.

I can't believe anyone would even advocate repeating this mistake.

But we made up for it when we traded for a young, star RB in 1999.

 

[BriansRams]

Twenty years ago, the Rams traded a young, star RB before he hit his prime. It may well be the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done.
I can't believe anyone would even advocate repeating this mistake.

For the record, I started this thread telling everyone that I would NEVER trade Todd Gurley for David Johnson. Never, not in a million years. What I thought was hilarious was that my son (Cardinals fan) would refuse to take Gurley in a straight up trade for Johnson. Now THAT'S crazy!

 

[tempests]

For the record, I started this thread telling everyone that I would NEVER trade Todd Gurley for David Johnson.

Yeah, I read that. My post was more in response to the couple of posters in this thread saying the Rams should make that trade if it were possible.

Jerome burst onto the scene much like Gurley did. There was even a five week stretch his rookie year where he averaged 6.6 yards per carry. We all knew what a unique talent he was. But those two assholes Ortmayer and Brooks soured on him in less than a year.

I can see why teams would want to trade for Gurley. Why the team that has Gurley would trade him, I have no idea. It would be just as unthinkable and nearsighted as the Bettis trade was back then.