To be honest

[Wisconsinram]

Guys,

Longtime lurker here. Rarely post, but read everyday. I don't pretend to be able to forecast or know what the front office is thinking

That said, I am concerned. I love the hire of Wade Phillips, but simply am concerned that we, as fans, believe we can move key pieces around and still make an elite defense.

As much as I want to "buy into" what is being proposed, I still have serious questions about the following:

Easley- he failed in NE in a 3-4. Why do we think he will be successful now?

Donald- the best DT in the league, but now we're supposed to assume that will translate to the same production as a DE?

Brockers- most here can't even agree on a position! But we expect great production regardless?

Quinn- Hasn't played OLB, but we're to assume/hope he brings past DE productivity?

Barron- the least of my own personal concerns, but many are concerned (rightfully?) of his fit as an ILB?

My point is we are in transition, which many of fan doesn't want to hear. Instead, we want to make points/excuses about how it will all work out. I want to believe Wade will adjust to his personnel. But the reality is that we have spent the last number of years building a hybrid 4-3 scheme! I am concerned the transition to what Wade really wants/needs will take awhile...longer than most fans are willing to wait for.

Like most fans, I truly like all of the players mentioned above. I just simply believe that we have too many round holes trying to fit in square boxes. And that's without going into the secondary.

Concerned,
WisonsinRam

 

[OldSchool]

Guys,

Longtime lurker here. Rarely post, but read everyday. I don't pretend to be able to forecast or know what the front office is thinking

That said, I am concerned. I love the hire of Wade Phillips, but simply am concerned that we, as fans, believe we can move key pieces around and still make an elite defense.

As much as I want to "buy into" what is being proposed, I still have serious questions about the following:

Easley- he failed in NE in a 3-4. Why do we think he will be successful now?

Donald- the best DT in the league, but now we're supposed to assume that will translate to the same production as a DE?

Brockers- most here can't even agree on a position! But we expect great production regardless?

Quinn- Hasn't played OLB, but we're to assume/hope he brings past DE productivity?

Barron- the least of my own personal concerns, but many are concerned (rightfully?) of his fit as an ILB?

My point is we are in transition, which many of fan doesn't want to hear. Instead, we want to make points/excuses about how it will all work out. I want to believe Wade will adjust to his personnel. But the reality is that we have spent the last number of years building a hybrid 4-3 scheme! I am concerned the transition to what Wade really wants/needs will take awhile...longer than most fans are willing to wait for.

Like most fans, I truly like all of the players mentioned above. I just simply believe that we have too many round holes trying to fit in square boxes. And that's without going into the secondary.

Concerned,
WisonsinRam

I'll just say a few things first off it's normal to be concerned about changes to what was a successful defense. The thing I'll point out is a comment by Wade himself. In three of his last four stops he converted a 4-3 to a 3-4 and in each stop made them an elite defense. The saying gets thrown around here but it can't be underestimated and that's "Trust in Wade". He's regarded as the best at what he does for a very good reason.

As for the players well Easley failed as an every down NT in a 3-4. While we're not sure what he'll play exactly the speculation is he'll be a rotational player as a LDE and a NT on passing downs. We'll see what happens when they put on pads and play.

Donald, while I'm not comparing him directly, is being put in the same position as JJ Watt was when Wade came to down. He was a 3 tech DT in a 4-3. Wade came to town and moved him around a bit but he was primarily a 3 tech RDE in Wades 3-4. The role isn't changing just the label we fans put in front of the defense. Have faith in Wade getting the most out of his best player.

Brockers has been an exceptional player for us. He'll be a good NT in Wades defense and I think will do good rotated around the line as well.

Quinn again like Donald will be playing the same role the label just changes. He'll be a stand up outside of Donald instead of having his hand in the dirt next to him. From what we know of Wades system there won't be much change in his role.

Barron will be in a role similar to what Deone Buchanan is doing in Arizona. Identical size and a similar role. Barron is a good enough player as an OLB for us last year I like you don't worry about him much at all.

Really what it comes down to is Trust in Wade! But people see the label of the defense change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and you have to really look at how Wade uses his 3-4. The roles of our primary defenders don't change much at all if the even change. The only players that have to deal with a change you never even mentioned. Our CornerBacks are going to be going from soft off the line coverage to a more press man to man coverage. That's where we'll see change in this defense. The front 7 should be just fine.

 

[jrry32]

Wade Phillips has made a career out of transitioning 4-3 defenses to the 3-4. Yet, he has been successful in pretty much every destination during his career. I'm not concerned. The system isn't that different from GW's. It might actually be better because it's simpler and relies more on the "see ball get ball" principle.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I think the newly acquired Tyrunn Walker spares Easley the indignity of spending much time at NT on passing downs.

http://sidelionreport.com/2015/06/02/depth-film-review-detroit-lions-defensive-tackle-tyrunn-walker/

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think the newly acquired Tyrunn Walker spares Easley the indignity of spending much time at NT on passing downs.

http://sidelionreport.com/2015/06/02/depth-film-review-detroit-lions-defensive-tackle-tyrunn-walker/

That's a really good read of his strengths and weaknesses from that writer/fan's perspective.

 

[Loyal]

Well, I share some of the OP's concerns about the transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Having said that, we upgraded at DC with Wade Phillips over Gregg Williams. One question that I don't have is about what Aaron Donald can do. All of my usual homerisms aside, Aaron Donald is simply the one of two best Dlinemen in the NFL. If I was forced to compare them (Donald and Watt), I would pick Donald over Watt because of injury history and age. It's funny that Suh isn't even in the conversation with them, and it's not close.

Aaron Donald, there is no substitute.

 

[RamDino]

I too, share many of the OP's concerns. Looking at the bright side, however, no more playing "off-coverage", giving our front four virtually no chance to get sacks, no more cheap hits at the end of plays, no more frustration (bonehead moves/penalties) because the offense can't stay on the field, and hopefully smarter player contracts and evaluations (see Jenkins, Barron, Johnson). Also... I really think Joyner might be very good at free safety and I'm hoping Wade will give him a chance! Fish just seemed to stubborn to even consider it. Defense will be good, and even better if the offense can stay on the field for more than 3 downs. Very excited to see Wade's stamp on the Rams D.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Like being a great dancer and being given new choreography and a new song, It will take time with all the pieces adjusting at a different pace. In the end they will all no the new music and moves. Yes @Wisconsinram you are justified in your concern as similar as it may be the "D' has a different name 3-4 a different Coach, Different players and to a degree different responsibilities whether they are more instinctive or not. Like has been stated we must trust and be a little patient and just hope that we get most of our ? players succeeding it is probably unlikely that all will perform at or above their past levels but hopefully they will be efficient and others will rise.

 

[So Ram]

Guys,

Longtime lurker here. Rarely post, but read everyday. I don't pretend to be able to forecast or know what the front office is thinking

That said, I am concerned. I love the hire of Wade Phillips, but simply am concerned that we, as fans, believe we can move key pieces around and still make an elite defense.

As much as I want to "buy into" what is being proposed, I still have serious questions about the following:

Easley- he failed in NE in a 3-4. Why do we think he will be successful now?

Donald- the best DT in the league, but now we're supposed to assume that will translate to the same production as a DE?

Brockers- most here can't even agree on a position! But we expect great production regardless?

Quinn- Hasn't played OLB, but we're to assume/hope he brings past DE productivity?

Barron- the least of my own personal concerns, but many are concerned (rightfully?) of his fit as an ILB?

My point is we are in transition, which many of fan doesn't want to hear. Instead, we want to make points/excuses about how it will all work out. I want to believe Wade will adjust to his personnel. But the reality is that we have spent the last number of years building a hybrid 4-3 scheme! I am concerned the transition to what Wade really wants/needs will take awhile...longer than most fans are willing to wait for.

Like most fans, I truly like all of the players mentioned above. I just simply believe that we have too many round holes trying to fit in square boxes. And that's without going into the secondary.

Concerned,
WisonsinRam

I don't think you get it ? Have you seen The Steelers over the years ?? Do you remember Kevin Green ?

Quinn is going to rush from the right sides everytime as usual , but put in a better situation . He doesn't have to contain the edge as much .

 

[den-the-coach]

Great Post @Wisconsinram and why are the addresses so screwed up in that State? Anyway I concur with others that the transition won't be that overwhelming because this is not Wade's first Rodeo and he's adding his type of players. As to NT I believe Walker will play a vital role in that capacity as well as somebody the Rams draft most likely in the 5th round like Vincent Taylor of Oklahoma State or Eddie Vanderdoes of UCLA.

 

[Ram65]

A well thought out post @Wisconsinram. Many have strong confidence in Wade Phillips because he has proven more than capable of molding his defenses in a short time period. Rams and Wade have added players Barwin, Walker, Webster and Robey-Coleman to the defense. They still have the draft to add talent and depth on the defense. Each player will have less to think about and only one gap to cover. From reading articles about Phillips past the defenders have all embraced his attacking defense.

 

[Adi]

Wade will figure this out, rams should have been a top 5 defense last year . They were not because of the predictable play calls on defense.I don't have any doubt in Donald being able to transition, if Quinn is healthy I can see this switch benefiting him , brokers will most likely stay in the middle and play the same role as always. Can't see this team being any worse on defense than last year, there is talent at every position

 

[Prime Time]

no more cheap hits at the end of plays

Something I've wondered about since GW took over the Rams defense but can't prove, did the refs either consciously or subconsciously penalize Rams defensive players more than usual because of GW's reputation for coaching players to play dirty? If nothing else, the hiring of Wade Phillips to replace him might help the Rams in that area.

 

[Merlin]

There's no sure thing in the offseason for any team. We've had a long run of losing so worst case scenario it's going to be a continuation of more losing. So it's not like we have anything to lose here in having a little hope.

Only facts we have right now are that Wade Phillips is as good as it gets as a DC, and that McVay has impressed some really good offensive minds around the league and produced some good offenses in Washington. That and there are more pieces in place on defense.

I think if you want to be a cautious fan do that. But personally I've found doing that doesn't make a losing season any easier to take, so I prefer to live on the edge and be optimistic lol.

 

[PARAM]

Phillips:

2016 Denver #4 D
2015* Denver #1 D (from #3 in 2014)
2013 Houston #7 D
2012* Houston #7 D
2011* Houston #2 D (from #30 in 2010)
Head Coach of Dallas 2007-2010
2010 #23 D
2009* #7 D
2008 #8 D
2007* #9 D (from #13 in 2006)
2006* Chargers #10 D
2005 Chargers #13 D
2004* Chargers #18 D (from #27 in 2003)
2003 Atlanta #32 D
2002* Atlanta #19 D (from #30 in 2001)

* postseason berth.

Well if his record holds up we'll be in the postseason in 2017. The Rams #9 D that he's taking over and converting is the highest ranked since the #3 Denver D he took over (which made the Supebowl). Now Superbowl certainly isn't in the cards but playoffs? Did I say Playoffs? Playoffs?

you get the point.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I Trust in Wade, His track record speaks for itself!!

 

[Rams43]

Yeah, add my name to the long list who have absolute trust in Wade.

Plus, he's inheriting a D that already has numerous highly talented player pieces for him to tinker with. It's not as if he has to build from scratch. You can detect Wade's confidence when listening to his interviews.

Similarly, I have a strong positive impression of McVay and the asst coaches that he's hired for our O. Feels like night and day improvement on that side of the ball.

Fassel was retained, a very smart move. We can expect another top 5 ST group again this year, no doubt.

Sooooo...

Only question in my mind is how soon McVay and his coaches get these O pieces clicking? It's a when, not if kinda question. I'm guessing they will maybe sputter for the first few games, then have their flashes until around mid season, then find themselves performing at a playoff level in the season's second half. NOBODY will want to play the Rams in the season's second half. Lol.

That's my predraft assessment, fwiw.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Yeah, add my name to the long list who have absolute trust in Wade.

Plus, he's inheriting a D that already has numerous highly talented player pieces for him to tinker with. It's not as if he has to build from scratch. You can detect Wade's confidence when listening to his interviews.

Similarly, I have a strong positive impression of McVay and the asst coaches that he's hired for our O. Feels like night and day improvement on that side of the ball.

Fassel was retained, a very smart move. We can expect another top 5 ST group again this year, no doubt.

Sooooo...

Only question in my mind is how soon McVay and his coaches get these O pieces clicking? It's a when, not if kinda question. I'm guessing they will maybe sputter for the first few games, then have their flashes until around mid season, then find themselves performing at a playoff level in the season's second half. NOBODY will want to play the Rams in the season's second half. Lol.

That's my predraft assessment, fwiw.

I like it.
While i'm not yet prepared to suggest 2017 will result in a play-off berth, so long as the Rams remain healthy they will represent a big challenge for the opposition, especially during the second half of the season. I believe 2018 will also be a year of big turnover in personnel, although probably not quite as drastic as 2017. Once McVay & Wade have thoroughly tested what players they have inherited, where they can make further adjustments brought on by CAP considerations and free agency, the team will again look to adopt players which better fit the overall scheme. Guys like Tru Johnson (if not traded this season), Alex Ogletree, Easley, Joyner and several of the new players such as Barwin, Dunbar, Walker & Sullivan will all be eligible to enter free agency following this season, and others like Saffold, Barron & Austin may take on the appearance of potential CAP casualties. Our drafts will be exceedingly important, and going without a 1'st round pick this year makes the others even more important to get right. We are on the right path imo, and the road may be longer that what we'd like because of depth gaps with receivers, LB'ers & CB's, and then there is just how healthy is Robert Quinn which offers a degree of concern. I trust in the new direction and don't expect it to necessarily yield great immediate results, but after a decade of losing, just getting to 8-8 or 9-6 will offer considerable hope for the future. jmo.

 

[Wisconsinram]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the insight.

Like most here, I'm a huge fan of Wade. I have to imagine a number of the players I mentioned will do well and perhaps flourish under him. A few others will likely disappoint. But you are all correct in sharing Wade seems to get it right every year.

PARAM- thanks for your post. I appreciated seeing the historical perspective of what he's been able to accomplish. I didn't realize until I read your post of just how significant and immediate his turnarounds have been. Really impressive......and comforting.

Den- I've got no idea about the address thing. I've lived here since I was 8 (moved from LA in '78) and don't know any differently!

 

[Soul Surfer]

OP, you might want to check out Easley's numbers in New England. He really didn't fail there and I was kind of a mystery release having to do with injury rehabilitation.

The reason he was reassigned here more than likely has to do with his play last year which was pretty good in rotation. JMO.