Three Words

[Elmgrovegnome]

Takes Plays Off.

I have a weak poor memory. Maybe someone can help me out. I have been trying to think of past players that had the concern that they took plays off. And of those players how many did it come to fruition for in the NFL and which ones didnt it?

I recall Vernon Gholston right away but that is because I had many heated debates about him with a particular poster who berated anyone who didnt think he was a good player.


Or Maybe just players whose motor or desire was seriously questioned?

 

[TheDYVKX]

Off the top of my head, Trent Williams, Josh Gordon, Desean Jackson, Chris Johnson and Alshon Jeffery all had "questionable" work ethics and all are top 10-15 players at their positions with the exception of maybe Johnson, who is still a very very productive back.

 

[tbux]

Easy to remember the hits- the misses seem to drain away- I would bet there were MANY more misses than hits with players coming out with that label.

Also don't recall Gordon and Djack having that label at all- mostly character concerns- but I could be wrong.

 

[Thordaddy]

Randy Moss

 

[DR RAM]

Deion Sanders, Julius Peppers....and I watched a lot of Vernon Gholston's tape, and to me, it wasn't that he took plays off, it is that he wasn't a very good player technique wise, or instinctive wise. Body like Tarzan, played like Jane.

 

[TheDYVKX]

Easy to remember the hits- the misses seem to drain away- I would bet there were MANY more misses than hits with players coming out with that label.

Also don't recall Gordon and Djack having that label at all- mostly character concerns- but I could be wrong.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/11/josh-gordon-defends-his-work-ethic-after-criticism/
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...rdons-work-ethic-still-in-question-for-browns
http://www.ohio.com/news/top-storie...s-patellar-tendinitis-won-t-be-issue-1.420287

Just as one example for Gordon. He had the label coming in as well. Reports of Jackson's inconsistent work ethic popped up when he was released as well.

Anyhow, I agree that the hits seem much easier to remember the hits over the misses, but that doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of players that have been labeled as "lazy" and have succeeded. Doesn't mean Clowney won't as well.

I recall Julius Peppers coming in to have a "questionable work ethic" as well. Randy Moss had a questionable work ethic. And so on and so on. He can be a game changer like those guys. Marcus Lattimore and D.J. Swearinger have also defended Clowney's work ethic.

Not sure it's as much an issue as people make it seem.

 

[tbux]

makes you also wonder how well some of those guys could have been had they been workaholics? some maybe realized they needed to work harder and did, and some maybe never got to their full potential. I will say this- I think Clowney will be a very good player, but I don't think he will be all time great because of that factor.

Moss didn't come in with that label- he developed it- he came in with Weed issues if I remember correctly.

All I needed to hear was his own coach question it- that is telling. he praised Lattimores work ethic and when asked about clowney's said "it isn't Lattimores" which is a nice way to say it isn't great. Not to mention what my eyes saw the last 2 years. We will see. talent alone will make him a very good DE- if he doesn't improve his work ethic, he wont ever be all time great.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Kevin Carter, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams and almost every big DT that has entered the draft.

 

[tbux]

Kevin Carter, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams and almost every big DT that has entered the draft.

none of which are all time greats- maybe if they did indeed have great work ethic they would be all timers?

 

[TheDYVKX]

makes you also wonder how well some of those guys could have been had they been workaholics? some maybe realized they needed to work harder and did, and some maybe never got to their full potential. I will say this- I think Clowney will be a very good player, but I don't think he will be all time great because of that factor.

Not many players can get to their full potential. And we don't know the details about how hard players work, but why can other players "realize they need to work harder" and not Clowney? Maybe some of these criticisms are actually trumped up and they ARE workaholics? If Clowney becomes Julius Peppers, would you be happy?

Moss didn't come in with that label- he developed it- he came in with Weed issues if I remember correctly.

He still had the label and it didn't affect his performance on the field.

All I needed to hear was his own coach question it- that is telling. he praised Lattimores work ethic and when asked about clowney's said "it isn't Lattimores" which is a nice way to say it isn't great. Not to mention what my eyes saw the last 2 years. We will see. talent alone will make him a very good DE- if he doesn't improve his work ethic, he wont ever be all time great.

Spurrier says that about most players. "That's just Coach Spurrier." - Marcus Lattimore. He usually has a few favorite players to praise and then criticizes the rest of the team to try and get them to work harder to get that praise. Praise doesn't come easy from him. I would trust his teammates over the coach who is notorious for criticizing his players on purpose.

By the way, Jeff Fisher only had kind words about Clowney's work ethic as well. I'm sure he doesn't know much about NFL players.

 

[tbux]

Fisher worked with Clowney how long? and this guy is trying to get paid! surely he is going to right now. We will see when the first check clears how he does. And When SPurrier made those comments- it was at seasons end- no need to motivate him then. Of course his teammates are going to have his back- that's obvious.

Moss is one of the rare exceptions who could get away with it- not many have. Look at all the best players of all time- most are notorious for being workaholics. Rice,Emmitt, Brady, manning etc- all work harder than everyone else- it isn't a coincidence. Clowney wont be that guy- he may have enough talent to be a very good player- but I don't think he will be an all timer- though he has the talent to be. jmo.

 

[TheDYVKX]

none of which are all time greats- maybe if they did indeed have great work ethic they would be all timers?

Peppers is still a 8x Pro Bowl and 6x All Pro. Are you saying you wouldn't take that? Because Clowney is more physically gifted than even Peppers was.

 

[TheDYVKX]

Fisher worked with Clowney how long? and this guy is trying to get paid! surely he is going to right now. We will see when the first check clears how he does. And When SPurrier made those comments- it was at seasons end- no need to motivate him then. Of course his teammates are going to have his back- that's obvious.

Moss is one of the rare exceptions who could get away with it- not many have. Look at all the best players of all time- most are notorious for being workaholics. Rice,Emmitt, Brady, manning etc- all work harder than everyone else- it isn't a coincidence. Clowney wont be that guy- he may have enough talent to be a very good player- but I don't think he will be an all timer- though he has the talent to be. jmo.

You're a funny guy.

 

[tbux]

Peppers is a great player- no question- but more gifted? maybe- Peppers was also a freak.

I will say this- if Fisher is convinced his work ethic is strong- then there is no way he passes on him or trades out- agreed? I know I wouldn't. Im betting if he is there at 2 - we trade out- and that would mean they did their homework and indeed have concerns about his work ethic.

 

[Memphis Ram]

none of which are all time greats- maybe if they did indeed have great work ethic they would be all timers?

Who cares if they were all time greats? Most teams would have loved to have these players.

 

[DR RAM]

Peppers is a great player- no question- but more gifted? maybe- Peppers was also a freak.

I will say this- if Fisher is convinced his work ethic is strong- then there is no way he passes on him or trades out- agreed? I know I wouldn't. Im betting if he is there at 2 - we trade out- and that would mean they did their homework and indeed have concerns about his work ethic.

We did send a whole team to his town to do background checks, and worked him out after a grueling pro day. I don't think Fisher is bullshitting about him. I think, unless something turned up, we are interested at least.

 

[tbux]

Interest? surely- who wouldn't be. When they dig deep enough to see the truth, I think they will go another direction. Working hard in a pro day is hardly a measure of someones work ethic. A measure is when nobody is looking and you are working because you know it makes you better- not when people are scheduled to come see you and you are trying to get paid. Who doesn't have great work ethic in that scenario? These rumors have legs- they have been around a while. Most ignore them. Sure there have been players with questionable work ethic overcome it= but odds are- if you are the type that does just enough to get by, you don't usually develop hard work ethic. You don't work out in the off season all of a sudden (unless maybe going into a contract year). I have been a sales manager for many years, and one thing is certain with most- if you don't come in with good work ethic, you don't usually develop it. true for all scenarios including sports.

 

[Memento]

Dontari Poe, Haloti Ngata, Star Lotulelei...all of them had questions about "taking plays off". I think they all turned out fine.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Dontari Poe, Haloti Ngata, Star Lotulelei...all of them had questions about "taking plays off". I think they all turned out fine.

Yep. It's hard to find a big guy not given that label.

 

[DR RAM]

Yep. It's hard to find a big guy not given that label.

Some of the best, most talented players that I ever played with, or coached, I would given that label.