Thomas; Rams must consider offensive line options

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CGI_Ram

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http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_646774a4-e046-552a-ad31-1b4c33ec784d.html

The Rams have taken major steps rebuilding the roster in two seasons of wheeling, dealing, and drafting under coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead.

But just when it looked like much of the heavy lifting was done, the Rams could be facing a major renovation project on the offensive line.

It all begins with Rodger Saffold, the tackle turned guard, whose original four-year contract is up. He’s scheduled for unrestricted free agency on March 11, the first day of the free agency-trading period, aka the start of the league year.

Back in March, neither Saffold nor his agent were happy about Saffold being switched to right tackle after the signing of Jake Long in free agency. But Saffold uttered no discouraging words once he arrived at Rams Park for the spring practice period and over the course of the just-completed 2013 season.

Before Saffold’s wild ride of a season ended with a possible concussion in Seattle, he had made only three starts at right tackle, started five games at right guard, and started the Seattle finale at left tackle in place of the injured Long.

That’s nine starts. After suffering a knee injury in Week 2 in Atlanta, Saffold missed the next four contests. He returned from the injury Oct. 20 in Carolina and rotated with starter Joe Barksdale in that game as well as the next two contests.

But it was those five starts at right guard, beginning with the Nov. 10 rout of Indianapolis, that got everyone’s attention. Before the start of this season, there were some at Rams Park who felt Saffold could be an elite performer at guard because of his combination of size, strength, footwork, and athleticism.

Saffold’s play in those five starts did nothing to dispute that notion. There were times as a puller when he struck linebackers with such force they looked like they were going backwards on skates. He usually got from Point A to Point B quickly for a 330-pounder when pulling.

Saffold was unavailable to the media after the Seattle game and on Monday at Rams Park because of the potential injury, which turned out not to be a concussion.

He has a sunny-side-up personality. He’s optimistic by nature, enjoys playing for the Rams, and likes what the team is building here. But with all the switching around over the second half of the season, mainly as a result of injuries by others, he didn’t get a good sense of where he stood with the Rams. Was he a deluxe utilityman? Or a potential centerpiece of the line?

With the Rams’ season over, the business season begins. Deciding Saffold’s worth will be tricky. Is he a tackle? Is he a guard? The Rams obviously think he’s a guard. Fisher said as much 10 days ago.

“Rodger’s a tremendous athlete, and when healthy you could put him up there with some of the best in the league,” Fisher said at the time. “You would like to think his future’s probably at right guard. Or even left guard for that matter. But he plays the tackle position very well.”

As impressive as he played in those five starts at guard, that’s a small sample size. How much is that worth for the Rams, or somebody else?

“We think Rodger can play four different line positions at an exceptionally high level, as he proved this year,” said Alan Herman, Saffold’s agent. “He was absolutely dominating whenever he played guard. I think this puts him in an attractive situation as far as free agency.”

The Rams haven’t opened negotiations with Saffold. But it wouldn’t be surprising to see Saffold test the market.

“We look forward to exploring the market, and finding a spot where Rodger can contribute on a regular basis, play a specific position, and work to become an all-Pro player at that position,” Herman said.

Saffold obviously is the top priority among the Rams’ pending unrestricted free agents, and the Rams are the only ones who can negotiate with him until March. It would be extremely surprising to see the Rams place a franchise or transition tag on Saffold as a one-year stop-gap measure. Last year, the franchise tag was $9.8 million and the transition tag $8.7 million for an offensive lineman. That’s a ton of money.

In addition, Fisher mentioned two key words when he talked about Saffold’s athletic ability: when healthy. After playing and starting all 16 games as a rookie in 2010, Saffold missed 17 of 48 games from 2011 through 2013 because of injuries: seven games in ‘11, six games in ‘12, and four games this season. That must be factored into any contract discussions.

Saffold’s not the only issue on the offensive line. Left guard Chris Williams, the only member of the unit to start all 16 games this season, is scheduled for unrestricted free agency. So is Shelley Smith, a handy backup who started two games at right guard this year, and six games at guard (four left, two right) in 2012.

And what happens with veterans Scott Wells at center and Harvey Dahl at right guard? Wells, who turns 33 Jan. 7, missed the last four games of this season and nine last season because of injuries. He’s scheduled to count $6.5 million against the cap in 2014.

Dahl, who turns 33 in June, missed four games this year and two a year ago with injuries. In a contract renegotiated in September, he is scheduled to count $4 million against the salary cap in 2014, with $2 million coming in the form of a roster bonus payable at the start of the league year.

RAM-BLING

The Rams signed five players Tuesday to their offseason roster: WR Emory Blake, DE Mason Brodine, TE Justice Cunningham, OT Sean Hooey, and CB Darren Woodard. All were members of the team’s 2013 practice squad.
 

max

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Look around the NFL. How many of the teams with top OLs have spent a lot of high draft picks on their OL?

I just heard Neil Hornsby of PFF say that the Eagles have the best OL in the NFL. They had a mess of an OL last year. The Eagles drafted Lane Johnson at the top of the first round this year and he's playing RT with Jason Peters playing LOT. They got Peters from Buffalo who went undrafted in 2004. The rest of their starting OL are either FA or lower draft picks.

My view is that we need to draft one OT in the first round this year, sign Saffold to play OG, and find another OG either later in the draft or FA. IMO, its a matter of keeping these guys healthy and together on the field. We shouldn't panic or take the defeatist attitude that is so prevalent when you listen to guys like Jim Thomas and others.
 

CGI_Ram

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That's the first I heard of Dahl's contract "renegotiation".

To me; I think you have to count on J Long at OLT and J Barksdale as ORT. We've got Barnes as an option at C. We've got a prospect in B Jones.

I'm not sure the Rams want to stomach losing both Dahl and Wells, but it sure looks like those dollars should go elsewhere.

Granted he's been healthy, but Chris Williams doesn't stand out neither does Shelly Smith... outside of versatility for both.

I'd love Saffold back at OG, but this feels like an Amendola situation to me... he's going to get an offer we're not prepared to match.

So that's AT LEAST 2 new starters on the offensive line, maybe 3.
 
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The biggest problem is Long. I'd be very happy to go into next season with Long/Saffold/Barnes/Draft pick/Barksdale, but you can't count on Long's health, so do you then spend you're first pick on a LT or do you just leave a massive hole at the most important position on the line? If you do draft a LT what are you doing with Long when he comes back? There's also the Saffold question but if some team is willing to pay him LT money good for him we'll have money to spend on a guard.
 

duckhunter

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I propose we do like Spags did a few years back with the LB problems we used to have. In an effort to conserve picks and FA cap space, we put bowling pins in their spaces on the field. That's about how long it takes for opposing defensive linemen to get around their blocks.

If it wasn't so tragic, it would be comical.
 
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CGI_Ram

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The biggest problem is Long. I'd be very happy to go into next season with Long/Saffold/Barnes/Draft pick/Barksdale, but you can't count on Long's health, so do you then spend you're first pick on a LT or do you just leave a massive hole at the most important position on the line? If you do draft a LT what are you doing with Long when he comes back? There's also the Saffold question but if some team is willing to pay him LT money good for him we'll have money to spend on a guard.

I think you got to bank on J Long being ready. Of course, the doctors will advise the Rams on that probability.

The thing with Jake, he was healthy all year. Yeah, he got dinged up... but he fought through it. His knee injury was non contact.

I can't help but fear, however, that he could end up a little like Orlando Pace... solid early in his career... but breaks down physically earlier than expected age-wise.
 

BonifayRam

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Easier to heard a couple of dozen cats than figure out whats happening with this Ram OL in the next four months. I sure would not panic max but I sure would not take a vacation on the beach & stick my head in the Florida sand! The biggest mistake for Snead & Fisher with this upcoming off season (in my book) is to NOT take this OL problem lightly. So many elements to consider here. First up is the March free agency.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_35301e09-9c02-59ff-a158-c2f52f058383.html

Contract status of Rams starting offensive linemen in March 2014:
G/T Rodger Saffold ... Pending unrestricted free agent
G Chris Williams ... Pending unrestricted free agent
G Shelley Smith ... Pending unrestricted free agent ?
C Tim Barnes... Pending exclusive rights free agent


Contract status of Rams starting offensive linemen in March 2015:
G Harvey Dahl ... Signed through 2014 (former starter)
T Joe Barksdale ... Signed through 2014 (starter)
G Mike Person ... Signed through 2014
G Brandon Washington ... Signed through 2014

When you look closely @ the future of EIGHT (8) of the 2013 OL'ers now & in one yr from now its has the look of major changes that will take place...waiting to address the above would be for the simple foolish minded.

Beside the upcoming "Free Agency" element ....Next element up is the ongoing & continuing "Injury Issues".....We know a few things... that is Jake Long @ OLT & Roger Saffold @ OG can make the Ram running game very powerful! With out them.... well we watched that result this past Sunday..very UGLY! Rams can not do anything much about the OLT Jake Long situation only to be fully prepared to be without him until the bye. We have discussed Saffold constant injuries now for months ahead of Jim Thomas's above article..think Jim has been reading our posts???? Both these OL'ers have a long injury history. Throw in starting 33 yr olds Scott Wells & Harvey Dahl's two seasons back to back worth of injuries then on top of that add in the third element High Cap Cost attach firmly to them.

The fourth element is the actual "On Field Performance" of all these OL'ers that will need to be fully analyzed. Like CGI said some of these OL'er are just not that good & need to be improved upon vastly as best they can. Think Boudreau will be busy?
 

BonifayRam

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I think you got to bank on J Long being ready. Of course, the doctors will advise the Rams on that probability.The thing with Jake, he was healthy all year. Yeah, he got dinged up... but he fought through it. His knee injury was non contact. I can't help but fear, however, that he could end up a little like Orlando Pace... solid early in his Bear career... but breaks down physically earlier than expected age-wise.

CGI...in Orlando Pace's case it was the combo of the 2006 left triceps surgery back to back with the 2007 right torn labium & rotator cup surgeries that together diminished the all pro on field performance of Pace when he returned in 2008 for his last season as a Ram. By that time nagging injuries piled up & Pace's last season was in 2009 where he finished that yr as a back up to our Chris Williams @ OLT! The solidify the point & remind us that even the great OLT's like Pace or Jake Long that endure injuries & surgeries just add up to rob OLT's of their high level of play in their careers.

Jake will be 29 yrs old when the TC begins & Jake will be playing on two surgically repaired knees when he returns now however this future surgery is much more serious than his other knee surgery. Jake's past history recovering from surgeries is not as good as most think. I do expect him back to form fully in the 2015 season but not in 2014. Jake does has experience in rehabbing events from his previous Five surgeries on his Right Bicep(early 2011), Shoulder{right torn labium & rotator cup}(late 2011)/Left Knee(2011)/Left Triceps(2012) & College Right ankle surgery(2005) now his 6th a Right Knee(2014) will be added. If Jake can make it fully back we might want to get him a superman uni. In truth Jake Long has provided the Ram fans some of the best run blocking from the OLT post since Orlando's best yrs! Thanks Jake:bigup:
 
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CGI...in Orlando Pace's case it was the combo of the 2006 left triceps surgery back to back with the 2007 right torn labium & rotator cup surgeries that together diminished the all pro on field performance of Pace when he returned in 2008 for his last season as a Ram. By that time nagging injuries piled up & Pace's last season was in 2009 where he finished that yr as a back up to our Chris Williams @ OLT! The solidify the point & remind us that even the great OLT's like Pace or Jake Long that endure injuries & surgeries just add up to rob OLT's of their high level of play in their careers.

Jake will be 29 yrs old when the TC begins & Jake will be playing on two surgically repaired knees when he returns now however this future surgery is much more serious than his other knee surgery. Jake's past history recovering from surgeries is not as good as most think. I do expect him back to form fully in the 2015 season but not in 2014. Jake does has experience in rehabbing events from his previous Five surgeries on his Right Bicep(early 2011), Shoulder{right torn labium & rotator cup}(late 2011)/Left Knee(2011)/Left Triceps(2012) & College Right ankle surgery(2005) now his 6th a Right Knee(2014) will be added. If Jake can make it fully back we might want to get him a superman uni. In truth Jake Long has provided the Ram fans some of the best run blocking from the OLT post since Orlando's best yrs! Thanks Jake:bigup:

So do you draft a LT, and if so what becomes of Long, if not who fills in whilst Long rehabs?
 

BonifayRam

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So do you draft a LT, and if so what becomes of Long, if not who fills in whilst Long rehabs?

If I were inside this Ram org. you would have to evaluate all information with planning for the 2015 season too. I not thinking first about anything draft. I have no ideal @ this time just what is the best way to attack this problem. Not so sure of the time table of whens the best time to begin releasing some of the top cap cost no producers & big questionable s... i,e, Cortland Finnegan, Scott Wells & Harvey Dahl. IMO I see no reason to take those major cap costs in 2014 with those three. The UFA 'cy may bring in some very good prospects to consider.

CF is not a direct OL issue but he will have a indirect inpact on just what the Ram org. can do here in UFA'cy. From what I know all the guaranteed $$ on $50 mil contract is done. The release of CF will bring a serious 7 mil back into the spending cap cash for OL UFA's. HD & SW will add another 8.5 mi into cap cash spending fund adds up to 15.5 mil in those three now. If those two OL'ers want to return to this team fine but @ a much lower cost. I am also ready to cut ties with Chris Williams & Shelley Smith if they demand anything close to more than a million a season. Sign Tim Barnes & lets see what happens in the first phase of the high end UFA cost signings.

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/tackle/
http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/guard/
http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/center/

We do know that the Org. prefers to go UFA's on the OL. However it has not brought them the needed results they need thus far.
 

blackbart

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I really feel like Snead and Fisher were already point to this offseason to start a re-build of this unit. They have invested in the toys for Bradford although they have not been able to progress as much as some of us would like a full season with Bradford in 2014 behind a solid O line and these toys will be coming in to their prime.

Wells and Dahl are getting old and expensive and have not been able to stay on the field, Snead and Fisher know this better than us. Williams and Smith are no better than depth, please don't start any more games with these guys. Long was playing well this year, maybe not pro bowl but better than we have had at LT in a while.
Long, Saffold and Barrett Jones are key IMO going into the off season. If those three are starters along with Barksdale and Barnes I think that is a solid unit however you still need to plan for injuries and having another guy to take over at LT in 2015.

The Rams are in a better position to entice FA signings so we'll have to see where that goes before the draft.
 

BonifayRam

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I really feel like Snead and Fisher were already point to this off-season to start a re-build of this unit. They have invested in the toys for Bradford although they have not been able to progress as much as some of us would like a full season with Bradford in 2014 behind a solid O line and these toys will be coming in to their prime.

Wells and Dahl are getting old and expensive and have not been able to stay on the field, Snead and Fisher know this better than us. Williams and Smith are no better than depth, please don't start any more games with these guys. Long was playing well this year, maybe not pro bowl but better than we have had at LT in a while.
Long, Saffold and Barrett Jones are key IMO going into the off season. If those three are starters along with Barksdale and Barnes I think that is a solid unit however you still need to plan for injuries and having another guy to take over at LT in 2015.

The Rams are in a better position to entice FA signings so we'll have to see where that goes before the draft.

Sure seems that a Ram power running offense is the where this teams does its best work by far. That pointing as you said blackbart was already heading into that direction. OT Long proved to be an excellent much better @ run blocking than pass blocking, OT Saffold proved to be an outstanding run blocking @ OG than OT pass blocker & show'd the Ram org just how non effective Harvey Dahl IS @ ORG that he was sent deep in reserve OL cadre. The rest of the 2013 starters are not highly proficient @ run blocking though. Org. also showed it was willing to put the 6-2 325 pound 2nd yr OL'er Brandon Washington in @ Left OG starting unit in the last game.

Rams have no answers presently @ OT period but some youth is available on the interior of the OL. Tim Barnes, Barrett Jones, Brandon Washington & Mike Persons looks to be able to form a early young nucleus to begin to replace the vets of wore down & non performing interior Ol'ers Dahl, Smith, Wells & Williams. Yes the Rams have invested in a boatload over a dozen of Toys = RB's (Stacy/Pead/Cunningham/Richardson)TE's(Jared Cook, Kendricks, Cory Harkey & McNeil) WR's (Tavon Austin, Quick, Stedman Bailey,Pettis & Givens) for Sam to play with but the Rams have forgotten about some fresh clean healthy top quality sand for Sam's Sandbox (OL'ers).
 

Yamahopper

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They do have a lot to consider. So many free agents. Other than RS none of them are very good. So really do we want them back?
R$S has only played 16 games in1 season
Wells and Dahl are old and hurt much. No proven backups at anyt position.
So I guess the plan is decide how much cap room to use on the OL spend it on the best players that fit in the window. Then fill the rest in the draft.
So in other words if got pay FA's lets pay better ones than what we had. The price will be close to the same.
 

Alan

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max nailing it:
My view is that we need to draft one OT in the first round this year, sign Saffold to play OG, and find another OG either later in the draft or FA.
Exactly what I've been saying max. Except by later I'm thinking 3rd or 4th round.
 

mr.stlouis

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I wouldn't pay more than 7 million a year for him. And if that means losing Quinn next year then I let Saffold walk and draft Mathews after a trade down.