This Guy Is Believable?

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jrry32

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I was thinking skill position. From an OL perspective you are 100% correct. The Patriots OL has been a think of beauty for the last decade. They're FO, over that period of time, has put ours to shame. Absolutely.

I will also point out however that part of protection is the QB's ability to get the ball out of his hand. If you look at stats that talk about how well a QB does vs. the blitz, Brady is pretty high up there. Again you point about the OL is valid, but a big part of it is how fast a QB can read and react.

Patriots also had a top 10 running game this year. If we were talking the 2001 Patriots(I apologize for mentioning that evil), I could agree but Brady also didn't light it up statistically with that team. He managed the game effectively and played off their great defense and special teams.
 

OnceARam

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And part of how a QB does in the face of a blitz is how well the offense picks up the blitz and if a receiver sees the hot read instead of having the ball hit him in the back. Think about it. How did Brady do in his last two SBs? How did he do against Denver's mediocre defense with all day to throw for the most part? Aside from during prevent time of course. So no - I don't view Brady as someone who makes his players better without that O-line.

This makes me want to cry... I wish it weren't true. Look we're going to get nowhere talking about Brady.

This whole conversation is just yet another thinly veiled attempt at addressing our feelings about Bradford.

Some guys are apologists. Some guys are haters. The rest of us fall somewhere in between.

Of course that doesn't mean we can't bitch and mone about it. ;)
 

OnceARam

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Honestly, I didn't see that because T.Y. Hilton had 327 yards and 2 TDs in 2 playoff games.

As far as Luck "throwing him open"...

Seems pretty open to me. That's ONLY from the playoffs. If that's going ghost, I wish Rams WRs did that more often.

Thanks for posing Jrry32. And I agree; Luck throws a beautiful ball. Absolutely beautiful. It's a joy to watch.
 

RamFan503

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Yeah - I think most of us want better - period. I happen to think if you give a good QB time and a decent running game, he can do a lot with receivers not named Calvin Johnson and the like. And of course I make my living being an astute NFL evaluator.
 

OnceARam

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Yeah - I think most of us want better - period. I happen to think if you give a good QB time and a decent running game, he can do a lot with receivers not named Calvin Johnson and the like. And of course I make my living being an astute NFL evaluator.

I agree, which is why I think we have to get one of the top 2 LTs on the board. If Bradford doesn't work out - for whatever reason whether it's his fault or not - then at least we have a foundation in place.
 

mr.stlouis

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I hope Sam drops in my fantasy draft. If I can pick him up a round later than that works for me. He was have a strong fantasy season.
 

jrry32

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Thanks for posing Jrry32. And I agree; Luck throws a beautiful ball. Absolutely beautiful. It's a joy to watch.

Yep. He can. And he has one heck of a young WR in Hilton to throw to.
 

Boffo97

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This makes me want to cry... I wish it weren't true. Look we're going to get nowhere talking about Brady.

This whole conversation is just yet another thinly veiled attempt at addressing our feelings about Bradford.

Some guys are apologists. Some guys are haters. The rest of us fall somewhere in between.

Of course that doesn't mean we can't bitch and mone about it. ;)
No, "apologists" is a word the bashers made up to pretend there's someone that's their polar opposite that they argue with.

The bashers want to pretend that Sam (or whatever other bashing target they're focused on) is completely worthless, so they pretend the people arguing with them MUST think the person is a flawless all world superstar.

Bradford isn't a flawless all world superstar. Neither were other bashing targets such as Bulger, Spags or Martz. But right now, the people paid big money to eat, breathe and sleep pro football 24/7 think that Bradford is the best option out there. If they didn't, this would be the absolutely perfect time to make a change, but they're not going to.

So all using "apologists" in any serious way does is destroy your own credibility.
 

Boffo97

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Yea but Spags was a bad HC.
You're entitled to your opinion, and I know you're not the only one to have it, but here's what I see.

2009: 1-15... had next to no talent inherited. Bulger was already quite Bulgerized by this point.

2010: 7-9... which would make Spags the only "bad" coach to ever have a 6 game increase over the previous year (at least no other examples have been provided of such)

2011: 2-14... The injuries tell the story of that season rather than any bad coaching or huge mistake Spags made. That many injuries that concentrated on certain units, no coach is going to succeed.

Again, Spags wasn't perfect and obviously he hasn't done well since leaving, but I don't think he was let go because it was discovered he was a bad coach.

You and others have a different opinion than mine, and that's fine. It's not something that needs to be rehashed anyway.
 

kurtfaulk

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You're right. His stats did suffer dramatically when Wayne went down. But he kept winning games, with the likes of T.Y. "Ghost" Hilton.

Anyway, I thought you weren't a "stats guy"? Guess you are when they serve your purpose, just like the rest of us. ;)

The Colts are in probably the weakest division in the nfl. They did have some impressive victories early in the season when Wayne was on the field. The rams made luck look mediocre. He had alot of turnovers in the playoffs. The only time in the playoffs he looked like he was in command was when half the Chiefs d left the field with injuries. Before that he was a turnover machine. Let's not make out like he was lighting it up out there.

.
 

jrry32

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You're entitled to your opinion, and I know you're not the only one to have it, but here's what I see.

2009: 1-15... had next to no talent inherited. Bulger was already quite Bulgerized by this point.

2010: 7-9... which would make Spags the only "bad" coach to ever have a 6 game increase over the previous year (at least no other examples have been provided of such)

2011: 2-14... The injuries tell the story of that season rather than any bad coaching or huge mistake Spags made. That many injuries that concentrated on certain units, no coach is going to succeed.

Again, Spags wasn't perfect and obviously he hasn't done well since leaving, but I don't think he was let go because it was discovered he was a bad coach.

You and others have a different opinion than mine, and that's fine. It's not something that needs to be rehashed anyway.

He left us, torpedoed New Orleans's defense and was fired as DC. And it seemed to me that he lost the team with his micro managing and domineering ways. Bad HC.

Rod Marinelli's record in Detroit was:
2006 - 3-13
2007 - 7-9
2008 - 0-16

Same sort of progression as Spags. Guy was a bad HC too.

Spags's assistant coaches couldn't develop talent, he was not a good leader and he was a poor game manager. The guy was a bad HC.

You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's a pretty difficult argument to make.
 

Boffo97

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He left us, torpedoed New Orleans's defense and was fired as DC. And it seemed to me that he lost the team with his micro managing and domineering ways. Bad HC.

Rod Marinelli's record in Detroit was:
2006 - 3-13
2007 - 7-9
2008 - 0-16

Same sort of progression as Spags. Guy was a bad HC too.

Spags's assistant coaches couldn't develop talent, he was not a good leader and he was a poor game manager. The guy was a bad HC.

You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's a pretty difficult argument to make.
I'm not making the argument, since I think opinions are pretty ironclad right now... but what you're offering in response is stuff that happened after he left, and opinion offered as evidence of your opinion.

I view the former as irrelevant, and disagree with the latter. So there you go.

I think you're a good poster here and have good insights on the team. We just disagree on this.

I will ask though... did Detroit in 2008 have anywhere near the kind of injury situation the Rams did in 2011? Looking at the Wikipedia entry for the season, it only mentions Kitna and Culpepper being hurt.
 

jrry32

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I'm not making the argument, since I think opinions are pretty ironclad right now... but what you're offering in response is stuff that happened after he left, and opinion offered as evidence of your opinion.

I view the former as irrelevant, and disagree with the latter. So there you go.

I think you're a good poster here and have good insights on the team. We just disagree on this.

Well, I figure neither of us really wants to truly rehash it or I'd take the time to offer more. At this point, I'm just offering a basic summary. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. That ship has sailed and I think both of us are content with what we have now.
 

Thordaddy

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Well as with many disagreements new things come to light as time passes and one thing that has come to pass is Spags has not gotten a sniff at a HC job which many of Spags supporters adamantly said he would , he screwed the pooch in Nawlins so I think the evidence is mounting that he left a lot to be desired and was in receipt of a huge amount of talent in New York where he made his case to become our second bargain basement HC hire,IN the end IMO Martz was a salary dump.
So I know we are just stating opinions we expect no argument about, but that's mine
 

OnceARam

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No, "apologists" is a word the bashers made up to pretend there's someone that's their polar opposite that they argue with.

The bashers want to pretend that Sam (or whatever other bashing target they're focused on) is completely worthless, so they pretend the people arguing with them MUST think the person is a flawless all world superstar.

Bradford isn't a flawless all world superstar. Neither were other bashing targets such as Bulger, Spags or Martz. But right now, the people paid big money to eat, breathe and sleep pro football 24/7 think that Bradford is the best option out there. If they didn't, this would be the absolutely perfect time to make a change, but they're not going to.

So all using "apologists" in any serious way does is destroy your own credibility.

I have no credibility. :D
 

Blue and Gold

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #58
I think T.Y. has speed and that's all. I think Luck throws him open.
And how does Luck do that, exactly. It's a phrase that does not make sense. I think he's throwing to an open T.Y. and T.Y. makes good catches.
 

RamFan503

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And how does Luck do that, exactly. It's a phrase that does not make sense. I think he's throwing to an open T.Y. and T.Y. makes good catches.
Nah... I buy the term to an extent. Often you see a QB throw to or near a covered receiver knowing that receiver will have a better chance than the defender to make a play on the ball. You look great when your receiver actually does it. Not sure TY is a good example but Sam would do it with Danny and Lloyd at times.
 

Thordaddy

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The throw Kurt made to Bruce for a TD in the Super Bowl was a case of throwing a guy open.