The Fitty Cent Question

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V3

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

rickrawk said:
Let's see.Rams won yesterday. Sam throws 3 TDs, no ints, but people talking about "do we keep him or move on?". Laughing my freaking ass off!!

GO RAMS!!!!

You do realize it was the Jaguars, right? The Jags are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL and our offense still had its issues yesterday. I honestly can't even take them seriously as a team.

Just let the season play out and you'll pretty much have your answer on Bradford.
 

CGI_Ram

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
rickrawk said:
Let's see.Rams won yesterday. Sam throws 3 TDs, no ints, but people talking about "do we keep him or move on?". Laughing my freaking ass off!!

GO RAMS!!!!

You do realize it was the Jaguars, right? The Jags are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL and our offense still had its issues yesterday. I honestly can't even take them seriously as a team.

Just let the season play out and you'll pretty much have your answer on Bradford.

This comes off like you are rooting against the guy. What am I missing?
 

kurtfaulk

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

.

I don't understand why some people are in such a hurry to make a decision on sam. The rams gave fisher a 2 year window for him to assess sam. At the end of the season they have the ability to do whatever they want without any cap consequences, or more to the point any dead money consequences.

We'll find out then.

but until then I hope sam plays lights out. And pulls the trigger on downfield shots.

.
 

V3

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

CGI_Ram said:
V3 said:
rickrawk said:
Let's see.Rams won yesterday. Sam throws 3 TDs, no ints, but people talking about "do we keep him or move on?". Laughing my freaking ass off!!

GO RAMS!!!!

You do realize it was the Jaguars, right? The Jags are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL and our offense still had its issues yesterday. I honestly can't even take them seriously as a team.

Just let the season play out and you'll pretty much have your answer on Bradford.

This comes off like you are rooting against the guy. What am I missing?

Not rooting against him but I find it pretty funny how people are using how Sam played against the Jags like he proved something. It was the freakin Jaguars. The Rams offense didn't even play that well against them. I still have MAJOR concerns with the Rams and I don't think the Jaguar game proved anything to me with regards to the Rams fixing their issues. Really, the only thing I got out of that game was that Stacey should be playing a lot more.
 

smram

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
CGI_Ram said:
V3 said:
rickrawk said:
Let's see.Rams won yesterday. Sam throws 3 TDs, no ints, but people talking about "do we keep him or move on?". Laughing my freaking ass off!!

GO RAMS!!!!

You do realize it was the Jaguars, right? The Jags are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL and our offense still had its issues yesterday. I honestly can't even take them seriously as a team.

Just let the season play out and you'll pretty much have your answer on Bradford.

This comes off like you are rooting against the guy. What am I missing?

Not rooting against him but I find it pretty funny how people are using how Sam played against the Jags like he proved something. It was the freakin Jaguars. The Rams offense didn't even play that well against them. I still have MAJOR concerns with the Rams and I don't think the Jaguar game proved anything to me with regards to the Rams fixing their issues. Really, the only thing I got out of that game was that Stacey should be playing a lot more.

Bradford has had one rough game to speak of this year. Same as any QB in the league not named Peyton manning. What is it you are objectively looking for?

Frankly I find this perplexing. Very young receivers and hardly any running game to this point with suspect blocking most games and he has started out fairly well in my opinion all things considered. He has areas to work on, so does every QB. Did you miss Brady's two shitty games this year? Do you want 5000 yards and 50 TD's? Don't forget it's a team sport. Personally I think some people take Bradford for granted.

IMO, this is 50 cent question like someone else said.

I was hoping this thread would go away but it's obviously not
 

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
Not rooting against him but I find it pretty funny how people are using how Sam played against the Jags like he proved something. It was the freakin Jaguars. The Rams offense didn't even play that well against them. I still have MAJOR concerns with the Rams and I don't think the Jaguar game proved anything to me with regards to the Rams fixing their issues. Really, the only thing I got out of that game was that Stacey should be playing a lot more.
Well, he did have good games against AZ and ATL as well. And you touched upon the bigger issue anyway. The team still has to come together against better opponents. In all three phases. At this point I find it very difficult to separate Bradford from the team and evaluate him singularly *because* of those other weaknesses on offense so far this year.
 

mr.stlouis

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

Wow this thread sux and the title is misleading to boot. LAME!

Yes we keep Bradford, it's an easy decision. We need to get his extension ready.
 

V3

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

smram said:
V3 said:
CGI_Ram said:
V3 said:
rickrawk said:
Let's see.Rams won yesterday. Sam throws 3 TDs, no ints, but people talking about "do we keep him or move on?". Laughing my freaking ass off!!

GO RAMS!!!!

You do realize it was the Jaguars, right? The Jags are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL and our offense still had its issues yesterday. I honestly can't even take them seriously as a team.

Just let the season play out and you'll pretty much have your answer on Bradford.

This comes off like you are rooting against the guy. What am I missing?

Not rooting against him but I find it pretty funny how people are using how Sam played against the Jags like he proved something. It was the freakin Jaguars. The Rams offense didn't even play that well against them. I still have MAJOR concerns with the Rams and I don't think the Jaguar game proved anything to me with regards to the Rams fixing their issues. Really, the only thing I got out of that game was that Stacey should be playing a lot more.

Bradford has had one rough game to speak of this year. Same as any QB in the league not named Peyton manning. What is it you are objectively looking for?

Frankly I find this perplexing. Very young receivers and hardly any running game to this point with suspect blocking most games and he has started out fairly well in my opinion all things considered. He has areas to work on, so does every QB. Did you miss Brady's two crappy games this year? Do you want 5000 yards and 50 TD's? Don't forget it's a team sport. Personally I think some people take Bradford for granted.

IMO, this is 50 cent question like someone else said.

I was hoping this thread would go away but it's obviously not

What I'm looking for in Bradford is improvement of certain aspects of his game. They haven't improved. On the other board, I was labeled a Bradford apologist because of how much I defended him. I feel like he should be showing progress in specific areas by now. That's all.

Brady doesn't have to prove anything to me because he's already proven it. And no, I'm not looking for 5000 yds with 50 TDs. How about being able to consistently go through his reads, look off defenders, find the open WR? Or perhaps, not stare down your WR to the point that everyone on the D-line knows when you're going to throw it and where which explains why he has so many balls batted down at the line? Maybe try a pump fake every now and then to combat that or even to open up his WR's down field? He's shown some improvement in the pocket awareness department but it's still not good enough. How about better touch on those corner fade routes? He even has issues with hitting wide open WR's on occasion.

He's well into his fourth year and people are still wondering if he's a legit NFL QB- at least the unbiased people are. It's a legit question. If you want to wait to have the debate until after the season is over, that's fine with me. I even said as much in my original post.
 

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
What I'm looking for in Bradford is improvement of certain aspects of his game. They haven't improved. On the other board, I was labeled a Bradford apologist because of how much I defended him. I feel like he should be showing progress in specific areas by now. That's all.

Brady doesn't have to prove anything to me because he's already proven it. And no, I'm not looking for 5000 yds with 50 TDs. How about being able to consistently go through his reads, look off defenders, find the open WR? Or perhaps, not stare down your WR to the point that everyone on the D-line knows when you're going to throw it and where which explains why he has so many balls batted down at the line? Maybe try a pump fake every now and then to combat that or even to open up his WR's down field? He's shown some improvement in the pocket awareness department but it's still not good enough. How about better touch on those corner fade routes? He even has issues with hitting wide open WR's on occasion.

He's well into his fourth year and people are still wondering if he's a legit NFL QB- at least the unbiased people are. It's a legit question. If you want to wait to have the debate until after the season is over, that's fine with me. I even said as much in my original post.
Well, let's look at it objectively.

Everyone believed Bradford progressed nicely from 2011 to 2012, right? And to start the season he had a decent game. No problem with his improvement so far. Decent game against Atlanta with another 4th quarter surge when good QBs are supposed to take advantage of those situations. Right? No problem with his improvement really. Then all of a sudden *BAM* two shitty games in a row for whatever reason anyone wants to assign. Just shitty games, period. Now everyone is jumping ship. Because there were very few concerns about Bradford after the 2nd half of 2012 up until the Dallas game. Normal concerns, yes. He missed that throw, threw that one too hard, didn't lay that screen pass in, missed that open guy, etc. Those are just normal everyday problems that fans of about 28 teams have with their QB.

All that other stuff in the middle ... I've done just a ton of "tape study" on Bradford over the past couple of years, and I don't see it as quite that bad. Two games, sure. That's not who he is though since Fisher got here and started to stabilize stuff around him. Twice, yeah. But again ... that's not who he is, and every QB on those 28 teams I mentioned earlier makes the same mistakes.

I'd also be interested in knowing how a casual observer such as you or myself could possibly know what Bradford sees or doesn't see. Your argument suggests that Bradford doesn't see the field very well, but an inverse argument could also be made that he sees the field fine, but the receivers aren't getting to where these timing passes need to go. Or maybe a throwing lane is clogged and he didn't see the guy the aerial shot showed running free. Or maybe he feels the pressure and wants to delay sack number 119 in favor of hitting his first progression. Or maybe underneath routes really are an extension of our running game (as per Schottenheimer) and this is the majority of what we'll be running this year (yay).

The team's got a lot of youth on it right now and that's what I see as the problem. Execution across the board is CLEARLY lacking, and despite what others will say, that's not a reflection of coaching. They run this same shit non-stop during practices, constantly work on technique, constantly work on responsibilities, and constantly go over this stuff in film study. They're just not playing as a team, and that includes all 53 of them; including, but not limited to, Bradford. When they finally get there, and it will be this year, then everyone's individual performances will continue to improve. This isn't Jackson, Amendola, Gibson and Givens and Kendricks. This is (insert RB here [2nd yr, 2nd yr, rookie]), Austin (rookie), Pettis (yr 3), Givens (yr 2) and Cook. Average time (aka familiarity) with this offense ... 1.2 yrs.

Anyway. Just throwing some other shit out there.
 

Angry Ram

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
rickrawk said:
Let's see.Rams won yesterday. Sam throws 3 TDs, no ints, but people talking about "do we keep him or move on?". Laughing my freaking ass off!!

GO RAMS!!!!

You do realize it was the Jaguars, right? The Jags are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL and our offense still had its issues yesterday. I honestly can't even take them seriously as a team.

Just let the season play out and you'll pretty much have your answer on Bradford.

I said in the chat room, so what? They are an NFL team, and 16 teams play against them.

At the end of the day, it says 2-3. Not 1-3 and a Jaguars win.
 

HometownBoy

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

My verdict is if you see a nice young guy you wanna take a flyer on, why the heck not? If Bradford fails we have him in the wings and if not he's a good back up and trade bait to help sure up one of our other numerous holes.

Who know Bradford might even benefit from the competition. I know it comes with the crappy carnivals that are QB controversies, but our media has been pretty good about staying out of that kind of talk.

I think it'd breed healthy competition, which is never a a bad thing in a sport.
 

jrry32

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
Or perhaps, not stare down your WR to the point that everyone on the D-line knows when you're going to throw it and where which explains why he has so many balls batted down at the line?

Eh...not really. Unless you're expecting him to not look at the WR he's going to throw to while he's throwing it, the ball is going to get deflect. The defenders get their arms up when they see him reach back to throw.

Pump fakes would help but you gotta have protection. The biggest thing that would help is the OL getting their hands on the defenders and either moving them out of the way to create throwing lanes or keeping them from jumping. And when they do jump or get their hands up, punish them for it. They can't protect themselves nearly as well. Hit them hard.

However, it would help as well if Bradford put a little more arc on his throws when there isn't a clear window. He's throwing it too flat. Which I can understand if there's a tight window but there are plays where he could have put more of an arc.

He definitely has issues on the flag routes. He needs to trust his WRs and loft the ball up to the open space. That's an issue.

I don't know what causes it. Personally, I'm a little afraid that it's him struggling to read the defense pre and post-snap.

As far as looking off defenders, that's overstated. There are a few times where it would have helped but for the most part, people overuse it. You don't look off defenders except on certain plays. If you discount screen passes, even the best QBs probably aren't looking off defenders all that often. It's used sparingly for specific routes. People confuse looking off defenders for going through progressions.

He's well into his fourth year and people are still wondering if he's a legit NFL QB- at least the unbiased people are.

Unbiased and realist are typical buzzwords used. We all have perspectives. I don't know if any is more unbiased than another.
 

V3

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

X said:
V3 said:
What I'm looking for in Bradford is improvement of certain aspects of his game. They haven't improved. On the other board, I was labeled a Bradford apologist because of how much I defended him. I feel like he should be showing progress in specific areas by now. That's all.

Brady doesn't have to prove anything to me because he's already proven it. And no, I'm not looking for 5000 yds with 50 TDs. How about being able to consistently go through his reads, look off defenders, find the open WR? Or perhaps, not stare down your WR to the point that everyone on the D-line knows when you're going to throw it and where which explains why he has so many balls batted down at the line? Maybe try a pump fake every now and then to combat that or even to open up his WR's down field? He's shown some improvement in the pocket awareness department but it's still not good enough. How about better touch on those corner fade routes? He even has issues with hitting wide open WR's on occasion.

He's well into his fourth year and people are still wondering if he's a legit NFL QB- at least the unbiased people are. It's a legit question. If you want to wait to have the debate until after the season is over, that's fine with me. I even said as much in my original post.
Well, let's look at it objectively.

Everyone believed Bradford progressed nicely from 2011 to 2012, right? And to start the season he had a decent game. No problem with his improvement so far. Decent game against Atlanta with another 4th quarter surge when good QBs are supposed to take advantage of those situations. Right? No problem with his improvement really. Then all of a sudden *BAM* two crappy games in a row for whatever reason anyone wants to assign. Just crappy games, period. Now everyone is jumping ship. Because there were very few concerns about Bradford after the 2nd half of 2012 up until the Dallas game. Normal concerns, yes. He missed that throw, threw that one too hard, didn't lay that screen pass in, missed that open guy, etc. Those are just normal everyday problems that fans of about 28 teams have with their QB.

All that other stuff in the middle ... I've done just a ton of "tape study" on Bradford over the past couple of years, and I don't see it as quite that bad. Two games, sure. That's not who he is though since Fisher got here and started to stabilize stuff around him. Twice, yeah. But again ... that's not who he is, and every QB on those 28 teams I mentioned earlier makes the same mistakes.

I'd also be interested in knowing how a casual observer such as you or myself could possibly know what Bradford sees or doesn't see. Your argument suggests that Bradford doesn't see the field very well, but an inverse argument could also be made that he sees the field fine, but the receivers aren't getting to where these timing passes need to go. Or maybe a throwing lane is clogged and he didn't see the guy the aerial shot showed running free. Or maybe he feels the pressure and wants to delay sack number 119 in favor of hitting his first progression. Or maybe underneath routes really are an extension of our running game (as per Schottenheimer) and this is the majority of what we'll be running this year (yay).

The team's got a lot of youth on it right now and that's what I see as the problem. Execution across the board is CLEARLY lacking, and despite what others will say, that's not a reflection of coaching. They run this same shyte non-stop during practices, constantly work on technique, constantly work on responsibilities, and constantly go over this stuff in film study. They're just not playing as a team, and that includes all 53 of them; including, but not limited to, Bradford. When they finally get there, and it will be this year, then everyone's individual performances will continue to improve. This isn't Jackson, Amendola, Gibson and Givens and Kendricks. This is (insert RB here [2nd yr, 2nd yr, rookie]), Austin (rookie), Pettis (yr 3), Givens (yr 2) and Cook. Average time (aka familiarity) with this offense ... 1.2 yrs.

Anyway. Just throwing some other shyte out there.

Those games are very similar to what Bradford has done in the past. Some games he does enough to make you think that he'll be fine. Also, he still did those things I mentioned in those games you mentioned. It also took the offense too long to start doing anything. That's why it came down to the 4th qtr to win it or come close. These problems that Bradford shows are not everyday problems that every QB has in the NFL. Perhaps mediocre QB's but you won't see the top QB's making these mistake very often, if at all. Some may be content with having a QB that's just good enough but I'm not. This team isn't nearly good enough to have a QB just manage the game and have the defense win a la KC.

I could keep going on about this but, like I said, I'd rather wait till the end of the season so there's more info to go on. The fact that we could keep going back and forth shows that there IS a debate and it's not just some troll bait like others are intimating. The fact that many ex-players and coaches, whether they be local or national, are saying that there IS some concern with how Bradford is playing is enough proof for me that the debate is justified. I just feel it's kinda pointless at this time because no one is going to prove anything one way or the other.

So like I said in my first post, let the season play out.
 

Graphicker

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

Everyone needs to chill. There wasn't a bigger Fan boy than Sam then my self. I defended the kid to death his rookie year, his second year, and his 3rd year. When is he going to defend me? He's proven nothing but a middle of the pack QB.

Youth argument? What's gonna happen next year when we add a bunch of more young picks? The seahawks are pretty young as well ya know.

People already want us to Cut Dahl and Langford to replace them with youth??? It seems like a never ending cycle and it's to the point of insanity. Jrry and I defended Sam with tooth and nail, But at some point something has gotta give. For every performance like he had vs the Broncos his rookie year, There's a pile of shit waiting for you the next week. He had a stretch his rookie year where he had 11 TD's and 1 INT and he has yet to produce like that, 5 game sample.

Hey I'm fine with giving him another year. Hell sign him for 5 years right now(I really like Sam). But there comes a time where the QB has to be taking a huge part of the blame. I really feel like we are the Niners in the alex smith era.. Of course Sam blows Smith out the water as far as talent goes, But where the hell has that taken us?

Just keep an open mind. We really have a good team.. Like we are really good, I know our defense has faced some struggle but so has our offense. I still believe we can save this season.. But with 2 picks this up coming draft it's something to look at.
 

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

HometownBoy said:
My verdict is if you see a nice young guy you wanna take a flyer on, why the heck not? If Bradford fails we have him in the wings and if not he's a good back up and trade bait to help sure up one of our other numerous holes.

Who know Bradford might even benefit from the competition. I know it comes with the crappy carnivals that are QB controversies, but our media has been pretty good about staying out of that kind of talk.

I think it'd breed healthy competition, which is never a a bad thing in a sport.


You mah dawg man :cool:
 

Angry Ram

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

Graphicker said:
Everyone needs to chill. There wasn't a bigger Fan boy than Sam then my self. I defended the kid to death his rookie year, his second year, and his 3rd year. When is he going to defend me? He's proven nothing but a middle of the pack QB.

Youth argument? What's gonna happen next year when we add a bunch of more young picks? The seahawks are pretty young as well ya know.

People already want us to Cut Dahl and Langford to replace them with youth??? It seems like a never ending cycle and it's to the point of insanity. Jrry and I defended Sam with tooth and nail, But at some point something has gotta give. For every performance like he had vs the Broncos his rookie year, There's a pile of shit waiting for you the next week. He had a stretch his rookie year where he had 11 TD's and 1 INT and he has yet to produce like that, 5 game sample.

Hey I'm fine with giving him another year. Hell sign him for 5 years right now(I really like Sam). But there comes a time where the QB has to be taking a huge part of the blame. I really feel like we are the Niners in the alex smith era.. Of course Sam blows Smith out the water as far as talent goes, But where the hell has that taken us?

Just keep an open mind. We really have a good team.. Like we are really good, I know our defense has faced some struggle but so has our offense. I still believe we can save this season.. But with 2 picks this up coming draft it's something to look at.

When there comes a time when Sam is actually consistently costing the team games, and always creating negative plays, then it'll be time to move on. There's been a lot more good than. Dallas and SF.

It would help if they could play w/ a lead for once, and not be behind the second they got on the field or even more the next time.
 

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

Angry Ram said:
Graphicker said:
Everyone needs to chill. There wasn't a bigger Fan boy than Sam then my self. I defended the kid to death his rookie year, his second year, and his 3rd year. When is he going to defend me? He's proven nothing but a middle of the pack QB.

Youth argument? What's gonna happen next year when we add a bunch of more young picks? The seahawks are pretty young as well ya know.

People already want us to Cut Dahl and Langford to replace them with youth??? It seems like a never ending cycle and it's to the point of insanity. Jrry and I defended Sam with tooth and nail, But at some point something has gotta give. For every performance like he had vs the Broncos his rookie year, There's a pile of shit waiting for you the next week. He had a stretch his rookie year where he had 11 TD's and 1 INT and he has yet to produce like that, 5 game sample.

Hey I'm fine with giving him another year. Hell sign him for 5 years right now(I really like Sam). But there comes a time where the QB has to be taking a huge part of the blame. I really feel like we are the Niners in the alex smith era.. Of course Sam blows Smith out the water as far as talent goes, But where the hell has that taken us?

Just keep an open mind. We really have a good team.. Like we are really good, I know our defense has faced some struggle but so has our offense. I still believe we can save this season.. But with 2 picks this up coming draft it's something to look at.

When there comes a time when Sam is actually consistently costing the team games, and always creating negative plays, then it'll be time to move on. There's been a lot more good than. Dallas and SF.

It would help if they could play w/ a lead for once, and not be behind the second they got on the field or even more the next time.

Agreed. However, you can't play with a lead if the offense can't score. This offense has done very little in the first 2 quarters of games this season. That puts a LOT of pressure on a defense. Our D is taking a lot of abuse from the fans/media this year, but they have to be frustrated by the lack of point on offense in the first half of these games.
 

jrry32

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

Faceplant said:
Agreed. However, you can't play with a lead if the offense can't score. This offense has done very little in the first 2 quarters of games this season. That puts a LOT of pressure on a defense. Our D is taking a lot of abuse from the fans/media this year, but they have to be frustrated by the lack of point on offense in the first half of these games.

They're giving up over 25 points per game(when removing the 2 pick sixes), I don't care what they're frustrated about. They need to man up before they have any room to complain.
 

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

V3 said:
but you won't see the top QB's making these mistake very often, if at all.
Why do you suppose that is? Top QBs being Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees? That's why I said the QBs of about 28 teams do make the same mistakes and are scrutinized for roughly the same things. That's 47 combined years of experience at QB you're talking about. There are no bench years factored into that number either. Those are starting years. So with those four, they're averaging 11.75 years of experience at QB, and none of them starting their first 3 years with this much inexperience, injuries, youth and roster turnover. And that's just being genuine. I have no agenda to pump up Bradford. He doesn't know me or owe me.

Maybe his time is running out here, because it is the NFL after all. If and until that happens, though, I'm not going to dedicate much time into breaking him down piece by piece and demand he do better. He's doing the best he can under the circumstances I'm sure. If he's not, then he's his biggest critic and he'll work on whatever the problem may be. He's just that kind of player. And another reason why I don't feel compelled to express my dissatisfaction is because there are no other options. What we have behind Sam is bad. Sam is a million times better than Clemens and Davis, so I don't wanna see that either.

Let's just pull for the kid (man, cuz he is a kid by comparison) and hope he turns the corner.
 

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Re: The Million Dollar Question

bwdenverram said:
I'm a little dissapointed in his completion percentage being sub 60%. BUT, going back and watching the games he has had a pretty fair amount of dropped passes. Not even the ones that are hard to catch, the ones that most pro's SHOULD catch. Austin is at the top of that list. Way too many dropped passes so far.

He still has the best overall stats of any QB in our division. Easy to say it could be better also. And considering he's on pace for career numbers despite the dink and dunk approach (as many call it) we should realize he's still not the biggest problem.

The 140 points the D has given up is... So while Sam has 2 very unlucky pick sixes, I think he's done way more to help us win then he has to cost us to lose. Even if it's been extremely unsesxy to watch.

Take out our dropped passes and his completion percentage is 66%.

No one catches every ball - every QB has drops to overcome but leading the league in dropped passes doesn't help.