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Take the Sam's last chance talk somewhere else

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by blackbart, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. LesBaker Mr. Savant

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    Then what the hell are they waiting for? :ROFLMAO:
     
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  2. oldramfan bigramfan1966

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    I agree somewhat with this, however Sam doesn't do one thing, that for me, shows he has leadership; He doesn't make anyone around him better. Look around the league, would you say that about Wilson, RGIII, Luck, etc? No because they make their teammates better. I don't car that he isn't a rah rah type of leader, I care that he makes plays and wins. He has done neither.
     
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  3. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    How do you figure that?

    He's given guys like Gibson, Amendola, Fells, Hoomanawanui, Bajema and Cook their best career numbers while he was QB. But aside from that, who exactly was he going to make better? Guys like Gilyard, Robinson, Burton, Salas, Sims-Walker, Alexander, Clayton and Steve Smith? Those guys have combined to do exactly dick since they left St Louis (with the exception of Robinson who landed on a team with 3 other legit targets). Sorry, but I don't buy the whole "doesn't make anyone better" argument when the context is left completely out of the equation. The context being, *nobody* has made those same guys any better. Not even Brady.
     
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  4. RamsFan14 Well-Known Member

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    ^oldramfan I might have agreed with you had Bradford's playmakers gone else where and produced. No playmaker has really has left the Rams (while having Bradford at QB) and become a great weapon for another team. You can make a case for Danario Alexander with the Chargers... And guess what, he got hurt (again unfortunately)!!! If Alexander could have stayed healthy, I bet we wouldn't have let him go because he can play like he showed at SD. Amendola has done nothing different in NE (yet) compared to STL (with Tom Brady at QB). Amendola's health is also a concern, he's a pretty good football player too when healthy but he can't stay healthy that's the problem! If those guys had busted out and played amazing football, I think you could have made an argument that Bradford hasn't utilized his weapons that well, but to me that clearly hasn't been the case. If anything, he's making the best of what he's got. Bradford is a smart football player who does play pretty conservatively, but last year he was throwing TDs with no running game. To a degree, he was putting the team on his back (averaging 2 TDs a game, could have been more if not for the Cook fumble and Quick drop in CAR). He still needs to be better 3rd down and I think he should be a bit more aggressive, but he still needs help. Tavon Austin should be money this year imo, I have very high expectations of him and he otta really play at a high level with his skill set. Austin seems like he wants it, and he does have the most playmaking ability on this team, so hopefully he steps up this year and really helps Bradford out.
     
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  5. fearsomefour Well-Known Member

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    We are just talking about different definitions of what leader means, no biggie.
     
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  6. Yamahopper Well-Known Member

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    I hear people bashing Bradford all the time. They throw stats out there like farts on a windy day. They cut down his leadership. etc.
    But they never offer a better realistic alternative.
    Yeah, we could have lost out a couple years ago and drafted Luck, but it didn't happen. Bob III I don't think is a upgrade nor Newton. Wilson or Kapperdick would have lasted maybe half a year as a starter then would have been cut because I don't think their games would work for the personal the Rams have. So who could have could have done better?
    If Bradford was in this draft the Texans like Indy did with Luck would have already announced they were picking him.
    People want the Rams to draft a 3=4 rd QB to compete with Bradford. Really, those guys upsides are the Hill's and Clemens of the NFL, career backups. That competition is over before it starts.
    If Peyton Mannings grew on trees every team would have one.
    I'm a fan of the Rams. I like and appreciate the players, but it's the Rams winning that counts. Warner had a nice backstory, but the Super Bowl win would have been just as sweet with Trent Green.
    Bradford is the QB till he's not. If the Rams think they can do better they will cause that's life in the NFL. But they don't think that or they wouldn't have went all in on him.
    So again name one QB the Rams could have had that's better.
     
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  7. blackbart Well-Known Member

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    What has Griffin done? Who has he made better? Do you think the Rams WR talent has been the same as the Colts?

    SJ39 was the leader of this team and rightfully so until last year. There plenty of articles written about him taking more of that kind of role and even some video of the rah rah stuff.

    Griffin REALLY???????:ROFLMAO:o_O
     
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  8. Boffo97 Well-Known Member

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    I've always been a Sam supporter and think bashers of any type are silly (or worse), but there's miles of difference between a basher and suggesting that this year would be Sam's last chance. Since honestly, if this year isn't then next year certainly is, and there's not a whole lot of difference there.

    A basher would be someone saying that Sam sucks now and has always sucked. The basher asserts all successes he's had are really either flukes or attributable to those around him while any failures are straight on him. The basher hopes Sam does poorly so they can crow about how "right" they were even if that means the Rams do poorly. The basher calls for ANY replacement even when it's the middle of the season and there are no viable replacements. The basher has already determined Sam is bad, and cherry picks arguments to fit that conclusion and ignores the rest. They also use "apologist" as if they think the word has something to do with apologizing when it only means someone who defends something (IE we are all Rams apologists. Every one of us. Hopefully.)

    To say Sam has a limited time left to live up to what he was supposed to be is not any of the above. That's the case for every NFL player. And a time might come where even if Sam IS good, and even if the reasons for why the Rams aren't winning with him ARE completely beyond his control, then the Rams and Sam still need to move on because it's not working, and you risk the Rams becoming used to losing.

    We're not there yet. It's valid to think that this next year is Sam's Show-Me year (appropriate for his state). I'm not sure I agree, but I definitely want improvement.
     
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  9. oldramfan bigramfan1966

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    I'm glad you guys support Sam and I hope he has an amazing season but I believe my analysis is correct. I've seen the other QBs do more with equal or less than Sam has had. The Rams have had bad talent around him but so did other teams. Luck took a team that had what 2 wins? and took them to the playoffs the next year. Did one draft do so much for the Colts? I doubt it. I want Sam to prove me wrong badly. I have been a big supporter of his but he has shown me very little. People say that there is nothing better than Sam out there and on the surface I might agree but we never know where the next good QB will come from. I AM in favor of drafting a QB (I would like Metzenberger) to compete with Sam as no one has pushed the guy since he's been there. Don't count me as a guy that hates Sam, because I don't. I just want him to stay healthy and win, win, win. So far, I've been disappointed. We are stuck with him because of his contract either way. If he doesn't win this year I am in favor of dumping him and his ginormous salary. I bet we could get 7 wins from a rookie QB and add a few other guys for the same price as Sam. The time for excuses is over.
     
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  10. scifiman Lighten up, life is hard enough.

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    I have always hoped for the best with Bradford and his success with the rams even though he would not have been my choice. Once he is on the rams then I am rooting 100% for him to succeed. Sam has some negatives to his game that can not be denied. I think drafting a young gun to create a real competition will push Sam to be better. Hopefully. It is also smart to have quality backups in the nfl because every team has injuries.
    As for it being Sam's make it or break it year I think really comes down to his next contract amount and how much that will be. In the nfl you can win the superbowl with an average qb who does just enough to win and not lose the game for you. Sam must know that unless he lights it up his next contract will be no where near what he got before.
     
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  11. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    When you see guys like Luck implode and lose (like, against the Rams) or Manning look like Tebow and tank (like, against the Seahawks), do you hang that on them, or do you acknowledge that they simply didn't have the support for those particular games? Those are just two examples, but there are dozens more I can bring up with many other QBs. The issue for every loss I can list, is that the QB (who would otherwise be considered good) just didn't have the protection, or the run game, or the defense at the time to pull out a win. Sometimes they'd be missing all three. Hell, I even made a video once of Aaron Rodgers losing, and illustrated why.

    Here's my point. Take those isolated incidences and see if there's any merit to the *idea* that a QB can't do it all. I can probably count on one hand the number of games that Bradford lost on his own with just bad QB play (like the Jets game), but I'd need several more appendages in order to show you how other facets of the game can take a QB completely out of the equation (like kicking to Patrick Peterson and not tackling him) can cause a loss.

    Bradford is very seldom the *reason* why the Rams lose. Can he be better? Of course he can. He can (for me) develop a gun-slinger mentality and start putting blind faith in his receivers; but by not doing that, he's keeping mistakes to a minimum and giving the other 45 guys a chance to contribute to the win. Over the past 7 years, however, have you seen a Rams team (a combination of O-line, receivers, run game, defense and special teams) strong enough to give ANY QB a snowball's chance to *take over a game by himself*? Because I surely haven't. Maybe you have. And if so, can you tell me which year that was?

    As per your examples, Luck only had to be better than Curtis Painter to succeed. How hard is that to do? That was (and is) a perennial playoff team for a decade. Luck is a good QB, but have you really tried to break him down at all? Wilson and Griffin had some of the lowest number of pass attempts in the league, while posting the highest number of rush attempts. Those teams were built to accommodate that style of play, and the Rams were not. Wilson is a good QB who has a pretty damn good team at his disposal, though. Griffin, on the other hand, has been exposed as a dual threat who can only succeed by BEING a dual threat. What happens to a team that is built around a running QB who can no longer run? (See: our first draft choice this year).
     
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  12. Cardncub Well-Known Member

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    I would gladly take Bradford over the crap we put out there between Warner & Palmer. D. Anderson, M. Hall, K. Kolb. all crap. You have to remember Bradford had a different o.c. every year in the first 3-4 years of his career. So he basically had to start from scratch every time the Rams changed o.c.s.
     
    #72
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  13. oldramfan bigramfan1966

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    You make some good points but I can counter them by saying that Sam IS the reason the Rams lost in some games. If you want to break guys down there will always be numbers for the good and the bad. I am simply saying that Sam doesn't win.....period. He's had 4 years and yes some bad players around him but, he still doesn't win and is very injury prone. I don't care about stats, I care that my QB, who is supposed to be an elite talent, wins games and stays on the field. I still say we can get 7 wins with a rookie and the 2-3 other players we could get for Sam's huge salary.

    I HOPE Sam blows up the league this year and I eat crow, but I doubt it. I think we might have seen all check down Sam has to offer already.
     
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  14. kurtfaulk Well-Known Member

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    seriously?

    sam was drafted by a team that had gone 3-13, 2-14, 1-15 the three years previous. probably one of the worst teams in nfl history.

    as a rookie sam led the rams to 7 wins. would have been 8 wins and the playoffs if not for a couple of bonehead plays by gibson against the whiners.

    2011 was a cluster freak of massive proportions. sam went so far backwards that season, lucky not to be scarred for life.

    2012 was a re-establishment year for him. that's all that could be expected from him after 2011, just head in the right direction.

    2013 was supposed to be his breakout year and things were looking good until he got hurt.

    not sure what more you expect.

    .
     
    #74
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  15. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    Neither does Robert Quinn. I guess we need a new LDE.
     
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  16. Hawk New Member

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    #76
  17. rhinobean Well-Known Member

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    Anytime a writer or poster brings up the salary issue, they lose me! Blame the scheme if you like, it sucked at times. Don't blame the qb for executing the scheme! Plenty of blame to go around! Not buying the blame Sam line of reasoning!
     
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  18. -X- I'm the dude, man.

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    A). Don't do that.

    B). I take it you're looking for feedback on that, and I'm willing to provide you with a TON of it, but will it matter? You're convinced that it won't sway the inconvincible. Nevertheless, when I get some time (shame you didn't throw that up on Friday), I'll go ahead and do that.
     
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  19. BigRamFan Living the life Jimmy Buffett only sang about.

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    #79
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  20. Mojo Ram On double secret probation

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    I just took the time to actually read through that article. Its GARBAGE and it should be hauled off as GARBAGE.

    Did you read it Hawk? Because if you did i have no idea why you might post it here. Forget Bradford for a minute, it trashes the Rams in general.
    Hey Hawk, bring in something legit with your next contribution to this site would ya?
     
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