SYG Offseason 1.0... Hide Your Girl

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StealYoGurley

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This will be long but worth it (IMO) I wont bother yall with more than 3 versions over the course of the offseason. The rams have about $40 mil in cap space before cuts. My objectives were to find players that fit the system based on extensive tape study of the scheme of our new coaches, add players I have studied who have the skill set to excel in those schemes, maximize our current talent, and attack the positional strengths of Free Agency and The Draft at the right value points.

Cuts (Total Savings $10.5m)
Lance Kendricks (+$4.25m)- Hands like feet and way overrated as a blocker. The move TE spot needs a major upgrade and TE is one of the draft's best position groups​
Tim Barnes (+3m)- Needs to be upgraded.
Eugene Sims (+2.5m)- Not a great system fit not good enough to stay.
Tre Mason (+.75m)- Self explanatory

Rams RFAs (-$4.2m)
Dominique Easley (2nd round tender $2.6m)- At worst still an above average interior nickel rusher at best a starter in the new system great value at $2.6m.
Ethan Westbrooks (Original pick tender $1.6m)- Will be fine as rotational 3-4 end his calling card is power and has even been our backup NT in the past. Solid depth at 1.6m, doubt he gets any offers.

Position Changes
Mark Barron LB -> SS. Everyone thought coming out of college Barron best position was SS in the box, but he has hardly played there because he has mostly been a cover 2 safety or LB. Barron Fills the TJ ward role in Phillips defense as a Safety in the box who can blitz, cover, TEs, and play nickel LB. Barron can be every bit as effective at SS as his All pro Alabama comrade Landon Collins if he is used in the right way. As rams fans we should know if Darian Stewart can play FS at a high level in this scheme so can Mo Alexander. Barron and Mo could a form a big fast hard hitting safety combo.

Greg Robinson LT -> LG. Cant trust Robinson on an island pass protecting, and that will happen at LT frequently with McVay using primarily 3 WRs and detaching the TE off the line alot. Some parts of Robinson's struggles are on the coaching, but we have to hold him accountable at some point. He has been bad for three years even when seeking outside help from LeCharles Bentley who helped multiple lineman step their game up. On the bright side, Robinson could be a good guard, McVay doesn't use a full back and runs some zone schemes so having guards that move and pull out in front is essential. You could easily argue pulling is the best part of Robinson's game at this point, so maybe Kromer will be able to salvage him at OG, but he will have to compete with our other young lineman.

Roger Saffold LG-> LT. This is not a good tackle class in FA or the draft, so as unappealing as it is Saffold could be our best option at LT. Saffold was our best lineman last year even though that isn't saying much. IF he stays healthy he will be solid and wont get Goff killed and can hold the Rmas over long enough to get a franchise LT next draft with a much better tackle class and a first round pick.

Cody Wichman OG->C. Wichman was terrible last year but still has some value. Both Kroemer and McVay converted 6'6 guards to center to make them more versatile with good results. Allows Kroemer to replace Rhaney as versatile backuo interior OL Rhaney he doesn't fit the typical profile of the lineman he likes

External Additions (-$38.5m)
Kenny Stills, WR, Dolphins (5yr/$8.5m per season)- Its rare seeing a 24 year old as an UFA, so a player with Stills skill set will be highly sought after and may cost even more than $8.5m per season. Stills is a So Cal guy so maybe the allure of LA and taking his game to the next level in McVay's offense can give the Rams a leg up on the competition. Stills can fill the explosive deep threat DeSean Jackson role in Mcvay's offense, but is 6 years younger, bigger, and better in contested situations.

Larry Warford, OG, Lions (5yr/$8m per season)
- It was rumored Snead was a huge fan of Warford coming out of Kentucky and even considered him when they picked Alec Ogletree and would have picked him if he lasted to our 3rd round pick. Warford is a solid pass protector, powerful run blocker, who fits the mold of a Kroemer lineman, and will help Goff and Gurley immensely.

Pierre Garcon, WR, Redskins (3yr/$8m per season)
- Another guy Snead wanted as a UFA when his Colts contract was up, so he will be on the same page with McVay. Garcon is reliable as they come and was key part of Mcvay's offense winning on in breaking routes, being tough over middle, running after the catch, moving the chains, and being clutch on 3rd down. At 31 he pairs with Stills and Tavon to provide the perfect blend of youth, experience, and upside out wide for Goff.

Jason McCourty, CB, Titans (3yr/$6m per season)
- McCourty is currently under contract, but will likely get cut after 2 injury ravaged seasons in Tennessee. McCourty is only 29 so he can bounce back and still play well. He is a solid vet corner who can play well in Philip's heavy man to man scheme. McCourty also has the ability to move to safety down the line like his all pro twin Devin.

Connor Barwin, EDGE, Eagles (2yr/$4.5m per season)
- Another likely cap casualty who was not as productive as reserve end in Jim Schwartz's 4-3. Barwin had some of his best years playing as 3-4 OLB under Wade in Houston and gives the Rams a veteran OLB who knows and fits the system.

Ryan Groy, OL, Bills (RFA 4yr/$4m per season)
- Groy is an RFA, but I expect the Bills to give him the original pick tender making him compensation free because he was a UDFA. The Bills have 23 Free Agents and are in the bottom 25% in cap space even before making decisions on Tyrod Taylor and franchising Stephon Gilmore. Additionally, Eric Wood their franchise center comes back healthy as one of the higher paid centers in the league. For these reasons I don't expect them to tender Groy at a high level or match an offer, so the Rams will be happy to add him. Kroemer seems to be a big fan of Groy he traded for him In Chicago and brought him in when he went to Buffalo. Groy is a natural guard Kroemer converted to center before Wood got hurt and Groy did a solid job filling in for Wood when he went down. At 6'5 320 he has the requisite size Kroemer likes in his interior lineman and would be big upgrade over Barnes.

DRAFT
(Compensation picks for Jenks, McLeod, Fairley in round 3,4,6) (Chris Givens trade round 7)​

2. Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama- Wade will be banging the table for a CB and I considered it along with OT, but Everett makes more sense to me. This is the best TE class in a while chock full of top notch talent especially at the top. As a former TE coach I don't think picks in rounds 4 and 6 last year, even though talented, will stop McVay from getting his guy early. Ive watched alot of tape on McVays offense and when healthy Jordan Reed was the straw that stirred the drink. in 2015 before an injury ravaged 2016 Reed lead the Skins in targets, even with Garcon and DeSean and was used in so many different ways. Everett has a Reed like skill set, even more so than the more heralded Evan Engram because Everett is; more explosive, more physical in all facets, and is better in contested situations. This may seem like a reach now, but it wont be after the combine, since Everett is a great athlete and has been just as productive, if not more so than more highly regarded guys like David Njoku and and OJ Howard, granted at a lower level. Adding Everett to Stills, Garcon, Tavon, and Higbee would give the rams the best set of weapons they have had in years.
upload_2017-2-12_14-13-23-png.18742

3. Fabian Moreau, CB, UCLA- The local kid is very talented and could certainly go higher, but in this deep corner class you can get a quality player here regardless. Phillips runs a heavy man coverage/match up zone scheme that fits Moreau's strenghths. Moreau has the size (6'0), quick feet, and loose hips to stay with receivers in man to man coverage and can instantly start for Wade.
upload_2017-2-12_14-14-56-png.18743

4. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M- It's not a Snead draft without adding some SEC talent. Gennesy a first team all SEC lineman has great feet and is an athletic pass protector. He played well against top notch edge rushers who will be drafted early in Alabama's Tim Williams and UCLA's Takk McKinley. However he struggled with the power of Alabama's Jonathan Allen and needs to add more strength. An NFL strength program will help him add more power so he can anchor better and be more effective in the run game. With that said he can come in and initially be our swing tackle with potential for more.
upload_2017-2-12_14-15-46-png.18744

4. Derek Rivers, EDGE, Youngstown State- No one loves small college defensive lineman more than Snead and his scouts. Rivers is a talented edge rusher who has some experience standing up and performed well at the Senior Bowl playing against a higher level of competition. Rivers can instantly come in a provide solid reps behind Barwin and has starting potential down the line.
upload_2017-2-12_14-16-40-png.18745

5. Josh Carraway, EDGE, TCU- You can never have enough pass rushers and Wade had solid 4 man Rush OLB rotation even with super star starters Demarcus Ware and Von Miller. Carraway fits the bill as an open ended rush OLB in the new scheme. Carraway has experience rushing standing up, but sometimes struggles to set the edge as a run defender, however he has the ability to contribute rushing the passer right away. Backing up Quinn as an open ended rusher is a good spot for him because he can use his speed and athleticism to chase plays in pass rush situations instead of taking blocks on head on.
upload_2017-2-12_14-17-5-png.18746

6. Harvey Langi, LB, BYU- Langi is a former RB who moved to the defensive side of the ball, but spent most of his time miscast as an edge player. He finally got to play in the middle in his bowl game and in the Senior Bowl and performed well. He has good size and athleticism at 6'2 250. Langi Can come in and instantly compete with Forrest for the early down mike plugger role freeing up Ogletree to make plays at the MO linebacker spot.
upload_2017-2-12_14-18-2-png.18747

6. TJ Logan, RB, UNC- Chris Thompson was an underrated cog in McVay's Redskins dynamic attack. The small, but speedy Thompson played a key role as third down back, on draws, screens, and by creating mismatches against LBs in the pass game. Logan is also a smaller explosive back with a similar skill set who can fill that roll, and also replace Cunnigham as an explosive kickoff returner.
upload_2017-2-12_14-19-20-png.18749

7. Josh Tupou, DL, Colorado- The backup NT plays the least snaps on Phillips defense, if at all since the ends become interior rushers in passing situations. With that said it may be more prudent to add a kicker here, but I trust Bones to find a solid one as a UDFA. Tupou is a massive man who is hard to move.
upload_2017-2-12_14-19-42-png.18750

7. Sefo Liufau, QB, Colorado- Liufau has the skillset of a poor man's Dak Prescott. Could be decent developmental prospect as the 3rd QB with the potential to be Goff's back up in the future.
upload_2017-2-12_14-20-22-png.18751


2017 Depth Chart (New Starters in Bold)
QB: Goff, Mannion, Liufau
RB: Gurley, Logan, Brown, UDFA
X WR: Stills, Thomas
Z WR: Garcon, Spruce
Y WR: Tavon, Cooper
TE: Everett, Higbee, Harkey, Hemmingway
LT: Saffold, Genessy
LG: Robinson vs. Brown vs. Donnal
C: Groy, Wichman
RG: Warford, Donnal
RT: Havenstein

LE: Hayes, Westbrooks
NT: Brockers, Tupou
RE: Donald, Easley
SOLB: Barwin, Rivers, Littleton
Mike: Langi vs. Forrest
MO: Ogltree, Hager
WOLB: Quinn, Carraway
LCB: Moreau, Joyner, Jordan
RCB: McCourty, Gaines
FS: Alexander, Davis
SS: Barron, Randolph

P: Hecker
LS: McQuaide
K: UDFA
 

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OldSchool

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Sorry but I cannot ever sign off on an off season that has us starting Glass Roger at LT. Also why are we not resigning Greg Zeurlein? A 7th round QB seems very unnecessary. And our CB spot has been just abused here. This off season wouldn't work with me sorry man I usually like your stuff but to me this is a bad move by the Rams.
 

StealYoGurley

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Sorry but I cannot ever sign off on an off season that has us starting Glass Roger at LT. Also why are we not resigning Greg Zeurlein? A 7th round QB seems very unnecessary. And our CB spot has been just abused here. This off season wouldn't work with me sorry man I usually like your stuff but to me this is a bad move by the Rams.

No need to apologize just differing opinions. This isn't a good tackle class and teams are always looking for good tackles, so they will be overvalued and the decent ones will go early. I dont see the Rams in their current construction signing one of the oldest players in the league 5 years older than their head coach in Andrew Whitworth. Reif will cost a lot and is not as good as Saffold. From what I have seen the last 3 years from G Rob at LT no way I can keep him there playing on island with confidence when I am looking to keep Goff upright. Saffold started 15 of 16 games last year and had no shoulder issues which has been his main problem. Bottom line is Saffold played well there early in his career and I have more confidence in him than any other option out there.

IMO the Rams are going to have some sort of mix of vet FA and rookie starting at CB in almost any scenario if they attack the offensive deficiencies like I expect they will. Tru is best as a zone corner looking back at the QB and breaking on the ball. I am not sure he would be a great fit in a man heavy scheme. McCourty costs half the price of Tru and is a better schematic fit and is one of the better CBs in the league when healthy. Moreau is a great corner you should watch more of him, could go as high as the first round. This is a great CB class and even if it is not Moreau you can find a solid CB with starting potential at the top of round 3. I dont think we will get "abused" at CB if we get equal production from a cheaper vet than Tru and take advantage of this deep CB class.

IMO Zuerline isn't worth what you will need to pay him. Unless the guy is consistent or good as Hecker, Justin Tucker or Vinateri I believe you can always find guys that will have similar production to an inconsistent kickers like Zuerline. Bones is great at scouting specialists and I think he will be to find someone just as good if not better at a much cheaper rate

Rams are going to need a 3rd QB regardless a cheap 3rd QB in the 7th round doesn't hurt at all. I think there is merit to the philosophy of drafting a QB every year and a new coach should certainly afforded that luxury.
 

8to12

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This will be long but worth it (IMO) I wont bother yall with more than 3 versions over the course of the offseason. The rams have about $40 mil in cap space before cuts. My objectives were to find players that fit the system based on extensive tape study of the scheme of our new coaches, add players I have studied who have the skill set to excel in those schemes, maximize our current talent, and attack the positional strengths of Free Agency and The Draft at the right value points.

SYG, nice Mock. I appreciate the effort it took to make it. You have some interesting players that I haven't considered yet. The only thing I don't care for is using the 7th rnd pick on Liufau. I have seen many of the Colorado games the past two seasons, and when the team started jelling this past season, he was rather average. And, he did not stand out at the Senior Bowl. Considering the departure of T. Johnson, I Would use a 7th rnd pick on a CB ; there should be some good ones left at that point.
 

jrry32

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Rams RFAs (-$4.2m)
Dominique Easley (2nd round tender $2.6m)- At worst still an above average interior nickel rusher at best a starter in the new system great value at $2.6m.

If we give Easley the original round tender, he costs us $1 million less despite it being a higher tender in his case.(Easley was a first round pick, so a team would have to give up a first round pick to get him under an original round tender)
Position Changes
Mark Barron LB -> SS. Everyone thought coming out of college Barron best position was SS in the box, but he has hardly played there because he has mostly been a cover 2 safety or LB. Barron Fills the TJ ward role in Phillips defense as a Safety in the box who can blitz, cover, TEs, and play nickel LB. Barron can be every bit as effective at SS as his All pro Alabama comrade Landon Collins if he is used in the right way. As rams fans we should know if Darian Stewart can play FS at a high level in this scheme so can Mo Alexander. Barron and Mo could a form a big fast hard hitting safety combo.

Greg Robinson LT -> LG. Cant trust Robinson on an island pass protecting, and that will happen at LT frequently with McVay using primarily 3 WRs and detaching the TE off the line alot. Some parts of Robinson's struggles are on the coaching, but we have to hold him accountable at some point. He has been bad for three years even when seeking outside help from LeCharles Bentley who helped multiple lineman step their game up. On the bright side, Robinson could be a good guard, McVay doesn't use a full back and runs some zone schemes so having guards that move and pull out in front is essential. You could easily argue pulling is the best part of Robinson's game at this point, so maybe Kromer will be able to salvage him at OG, but he will have to compete with our other young lineman.

Roger Saffold LG-> LT. This is not a good tackle class in FA or the draft, so as unappealing as it is Saffold could be our best option at LT. Saffold was our best lineman last year even though that isn't saying much. IF he stays healthy he will be solid and wont get Goff killed and can hold the Rmas over long enough to get a franchise LT next draft with a much better tackle class and a first round pick.

Cody Wichman OG->C. Wichman was terrible last year but still has some value. Both Kroemer and McVay converted 6'6 guards to center to make them more versatile with good results. Allows Kroemer to replace Rhaney as versatile backuo interior OL Rhaney he doesn't fit the typical profile of the lineman he likes

These are all acceptable to me. Although, I'd give Greg Robinson a shot at LT before moving him.

External Additions (-$38.5m)
Kenny Stills, WR, Dolphins (5yr/$8.5m per season)- Its rare seeing a 24 year old as an UFA, so a player with Stills skill set will be highly sought after and may cost even more than $8.5m per season. Stills is a So Cal guy so maybe the allure of LA and taking his game to the next level in McVay's offense can give the Rams a leg up on the competition. Stills can fill the explosive deep threat DeSean Jackson role in Mcvay's offense, but is 6 years younger, bigger, and better in contested situations.

This seems like an overpay to me. I think you can get Stills at $7 million per year.

Larry Warford, OG, Lions (5yr/$8m per season)- It was rumored Snead was a huge fan of Warford coming out of Kentucky and even considered him when they picked Alec Ogletree and would have picked him if he lasted to our 3rd round pick. Warford is a solid pass protector, powerful run blocker, who fits the mold of a Kroemer lineman, and will help Goff and Gurley immensely.

Pierre Garcon, WR, Redskins (3yr/$8m per season)
- Another guy Snead wanted as a UFA when his Colts contract was up, so he will be on the same page with McVay. Garcon is reliable as they come and was key part of Mcvay's offense winning on in breaking routes, being tough over middle, running after the catch, moving the chains, and being clutch on 3rd down. At 31 he pairs with Stills and Tavon to provide the perfect blend of youth, experience, and upside out wide for Goff.

These work for me. Garcon is probably a slight underpay, but when taken in conjunction with Stills, I think it evens out.

Jason McCourty, CB, Titans (3yr/$6m per season)- McCourty is currently under contract, but will likely get cut after 2 injury ravaged seasons in Tennessee. McCourty is only 29 so he can bounce back and still play well. He is a solid vet corner who can play well in Philip's heavy man to man scheme. McCourty also has the ability to move to safety down the line like his all pro twin Devin.

Eh, I dunno about this one. McCourty hasn't played well the past few years. That's a lot of money to spend on him. I might be more tempted to make this deal if he were moving to FS.

Connor Barwin, EDGE, Eagles (2yr/$4.5m per season)- Another likely cap casualty who was not as productive as reserve end in Jim Schwartz's 4-3. Barwin had some of his best years playing as 3-4 OLB under Wade in Houston and gives the Rams a veteran OLB who knows and fits the system.

I'm good with this.

Ryan Groy, OL, Bills (RFA 4yr/$4m per season)- Groy is an RFA, but I expect the Bills to give him the original pick tender making him compensation free because he was a UDFA. The Bills have 23 Free Agents and are in the bottom 25% in cap space even before making decisions on Tyrod Taylor and franchising Stephon Gilmore. Additionally, Eric Wood their franchise center comes back healthy as one of the higher paid centers in the league. For these reasons I don't expect them to tender Groy at a high level or match an offer, so the Rams will be happy to add him. Kroemer seems to be a big fan of Groy he traded for him In Chicago and brought him in when he went to Buffalo. Groy is a natural guard Kroemer converted to center before Wood got hurt and Groy did a solid job filling in for Wood when he went down. At 6'5 320 he has the requisite size Kroemer likes in his interior lineman and would be big upgrade over Barnes.

I've heard negative things about Groy from Bills fans. He was on my list prior to that.

DRAFT
(Compensation picks for Jenks, McLeod, Fairley in round 3,4,6) (Chris Givens trade round 7)
2. Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama- Wade will be banging the table for a CB and I considered it along with OT, but Everett makes more sense to me. This is the best TE class in a while chock full of top notch talent especially at the top. As a former TE coach I don't think picks in rounds 4 and 6 last year, even though talented, will stop McVay from getting his guy early. Ive watched alot of tape on McVays offense and when healthy Jordan Reed was the straw that stirred the drink. in 2015 before an injury ravaged 2016 Reed lead the Skins in targets, even with Garcon and DeSean and was used in so many different ways. Everett has a Reed like skill set, even more so than the more heralded Evan Engram because Everett is; more explosive, more physical in all facets, and is better in contested situations. This may seem like a reach now, but it wont be after the combine, since Everett is a great athlete and has been just as productive, if not more so than more highly regarded guys like David Njoku and and OJ Howard, granted at a lower level. Adding Everett to Stills, Garcon, Tavon, and Higbee would give the rams the best set of weapons they have had in years.

I don't like this move. I liked Everett when he was considered a Day 3 pick. But now we're taking him with a top 40 pick. I think there's better talent available. And this TE class is scary deep. I need to watch more film on Everett and Jonnu Smith, but based on what I've seen thus far, I'm not convinced that Everett is better than Jonnu (who is considered a 5th round pick).

3. Fabian Moreau, CB, UCLA- The local kid is very talented and could certainly go higher, but in this deep corner class you can get a quality player here regardless. Phillips runs a heavy man coverage/match up zone scheme that fits Moreau's strenghths. Moreau has the size (6'0), quick feet, and loose hips to stay with receivers in man to man coverage and can instantly start for Wade.

I'm good with this. Moreau is an outstanding athlete. Although, my preference towards Ahkello Witherspoon should be obvious at this point.

4. Avery Gennesy, OT, Texas A&M- It's not a Snead draft without adding some SEC talent. Gennesy a first team all SEC lineman has great feet and is an athletic pass protector. He played well against top notch edge rushers who will be drafted early in Alabama's Tim Williams and UCLA's Takk McKinley. However he struggled with the power of Alabama's Jonathan Allen and needs to add more strength. An NFL strength program will help him add more power so he can anchor better and be more effective in the run game. With that said he can come in and initially be our swing tackle with potential for more.

This doesn't fit Kromer at all. Gennessy is undersized at both OT and OG in his scheme. He lacks the length you normally expect to find in an OT and the strength that Kromer looks for in an OG in this scheme. He makes a lot more sense for a scheme like Kyle Shanahan's.

4. Derek Rivers, EDGE, Youngstown State- No one loves small college defensive lineman more than Snead and his scouts. Rivers is a talented edge rusher who has some experience standing up and performed well at the Senior Bowl playing against a higher level of competition. Rivers can instantly come in a provide solid reps behind Barwin and has starting potential down the line.

5. Josh Carraway, EDGE, TCU- You can never have enough pass rushers and Wade had solid 4 man Rush OLB rotation even with super star starters Demarcus Ware and Von Miller. Carraway fits the bill as an open ended rush OLB in the new scheme. Carraway has experience rushing standing up, but sometimes struggles to set the edge as a run defender, however he has the ability to contribute rushing the passer right away. Backing up Quinn as an open ended rusher is a good spot for him because he can use his speed and athleticism to chase plays in pass rush situations instead of taking blocks on head on.

I'm good with these picks.

6. Harvey Langi, LB, BYU- Langi is a former RB who moved to the defensive side of the ball, but spent most of his time miscast as an edge player. He finally got to play in the middle in his bowl game and in the Senior Bowl and performed well. He has good size and athleticism at 6'2 250. Langi Can come in and instantly compete with Forrest for the early down mike plugger role freeing up Ogletree to make plays at the MO linebacker spot.

Don't know much about him.

6. TJ Logan, RB, UNC- Chris Thompson was an underrated cog in McVay's Redskins dynamic attack. The small, but speedy Thompson played a key role as third down back, on draws, screens, and by creating mismatches against LBs in the pass game. Logan is also a smaller explosive back with a similar skill set who can fill that roll, and also replace Cunnigham as an explosive kickoff returner.

I'd prefer for us to keep Benny. Logan would slot in well behind him, though.

7. Josh Tupou, DL, Colorado- The backup NT plays the least snaps on Phillips defense, if at all since the ends become interior rushers in passing situations. With that said it may be more prudent to add a kicker here, but I trust Bones to find a solid one as a UDFA. Tupou is a massive man who is hard to move.

I'm not sure he fits the system. Wade likes disruptors at NT, not space-eaters.

7. Sefo Liufau, QB, Colorado- Liufau has the skillset of a poor man's Dak Prescott. Could be decent developmental prospect as the 3rd QB with the potential to be Goff's back up in the future.

I expect that Liufau will be gone by this point.

I really don't like this decision. Keep Zuerlein. Bring in competition if you must, but don't let a solid Kicker walk.
 

jrry32

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Tru is best as a zone corner looking back at the QB and breaking on the ball. I am not sure he would be a great fit in a man heavy scheme.

I strongly disagree. Tru is a great fit in zone coverage (he'd be awesome in Seattle's scheme), but he's also a great press CB. Williams didn't press that often because of his defensive philosophy, but when he did, Tru always looked good. Wade runs a press man heavy scheme when he has the CBs who can handle it. Tru will do quite well in that scheme. He's quite good at getting his head around and finding the football down the field.

IMO Zuerline isn't worth what you will need to pay him. Unless the guy is consistent or good as Hecker, Justin Tucker or Vinateri I believe you can always find guys that will have similar production to an inconsistent kickers like Zuerline. Bones is great at scouting specialists and I think he will be to find someone just as good if not better at a much cheaper rate

If this were true, you wouldn't have a bunch of teams dealing with shitty kickers or recycling other team's cast-offs each year. Zuerlein is pretty reliable within 50 yards. And has a monster leg. As long as you don't act like an idiot and destroy his confidence (cough 2015 Fisher cough), he'll be plenty good.
 

dieterbrock

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Man, I don't say it enough but I appreciate the thought and work that goes in to these.
 

StealYoGurley

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If we give Easley the original round tender, he costs us $1 million less despite it being a higher tender in his case.(Easley was a first round pick, so a team would have to give up a first round pick to get him under an original round tender)

Didn't know that. Good tidbit.

This seems like an overpay to me. I think you can get Stills at $7 million per year.

I suspect there will alot of overpays in this year's FA market especially when you have WRs like Tavon and Allen hurn making aroudn 10 mil per year. Torrey Smith and Marvin Jones got $8 mil a year before the cap going up. I think WR numbers all around will shock people.

I don't like this move. I liked Everett when he was considered a Day 3 pick. But now we're taking him with a top 40 pick. I think there's better talent available. And this TE class is scary deep. I need to watch more film on Everett and Jonnu Smith, but based on what I've seen thus far, I'm not convinced that Everett is better than Jonnu (who is considered a 5th round pick).

I honestly don't think enough people know about this guy. IMO one of the most dynamic weapons in this draft. Explosive athlete before and after the catch, wins at the catch point and is more physical than most move TEs his size. I wish there more tape out there on him because he will be a stud.

I'd prefer for us to keep Benny. Logan would slot in well behind him, though.

Benny would be nice to keep, but IMO his skill set is replaceable and I would rather go chepaer and younger at RB McVay seems to prefer speed demons backing up his bigger guys. Chris Thompson and also drafted Gurley's college teammate both at 4.3 speed guys

I really don't like this decision. Keep Zuerlein. Bring in competition if you must, but don't let a solid Kicker walk.

I don't know if I trust GZ as much as you do and this Rams offense made sure he had a small sample size after a terrible year. But I guess you could bring him back at the right price.
 

jrry32

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I suspect there will alot of overpays in this year's FA market especially when you have WRs like Tavon and Allen hurn making aroudn 10 mil per year. Torrey Smith and Marvin Jones got $8 mil a year before the cap going up. I think WR numbers all around will shock people.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8482/kenny-stills
The Palm Beach Post considers re-signing free agent Kenny Stills Miami’s top offseason priority.
The Dolphins opened talks with Stills at the Senior Bowl, but haven’t made progress since. Things should heat up closer to the Combine. Stills is going to be hard to keep with multiple teams already expressing interest. Miami is expected to offer Stills a deal in the range of $6.5 million annually.

Torrey Smith was a more proven WR. And Marvin Jones had more upside in a weaker WR FA class. Look at what Travis Benjamin got paid last year. He has a skill-set that is very similar to Stills's. Stills is a bit more proven than Benjamin, and the cap is rising, so I think he gets paid a bit more.

I honestly don't think enough people know about this guy. IMO one of the most dynamic weapons in this draft. Explosive athlete before and after the catch, wins at the catch point and is more physical than most move TEs his size. I wish there more tape out there on him because he will be a stud.

I'm not sold on him in the same way you are.

Benny would be nice to keep, but IMO his skill set is replaceable and I would rather go chepaer and younger at RB McVay seems to prefer speed demons backing up his bigger guys. Chris Thompson and also drafted Gurley's college teammate both at 4.3 speed guys

McVay wasn't the guy making those decisions. There's no reason to move on from a proven commodity who should be cheap to re-sign.
 

StealYoGurley

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Torrey Smith was a more proven WR. And Marvin Jones had more upside in a weaker WR FA class. Look at what Travis Benjamin got paid last year. He has a skill-set that is very similar to Stills's. Stills is a bit more proven than Benjamin, and the cap is rising, so I think he gets paid a bit more.

Cant discount the cap going up. Jones biggest yardage total before FA was 816 yards and his biggest TD total was 10. Stills biggest yardage total was 931 and his biggest TD total was 9. Stills is 24 entering FA could argue he has just as much if not more upside. He and DeSean Jackson are the best deep threats available and those guys are coveted. Stills being 6 years younger than DeSean makes him even more attractive.

McVay wasn't the guy making those decisions. There's no reason to move on from a proven commodity who should be cheap to re-sign.

He was a big part of making Chris Thompson a major part of the game plan. Fast athletic RBs who can be a mismatch in the passing game became a big part of the gameplan. IMO you can find RBs late especially backups. Even as a cheaper backup RB Cunningham will cost 3 times as much as a a late round rookie.
 

jrry32

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Cant discount the cap going up. Jones biggest yardage total before FA was 816 yards and his biggest TD total was 10. Stills biggest yardage total was 931 and his biggest TD total was 9. Stills is 24 entering FA could argue he has just as much if not more upside. He and DeSean Jackson are the best deep threats available and those guys are coveted. Stills being 6 years younger than DeSean makes him even more attractive.

Jones was 6'2", a legitimate red-zone threat, and a quality route runner. He had fringe #1 WR potential. Stills is a deep threat.

There's also the fact that last year's WR class was very weak. Marvin Jones was the top WR in that class. Stills might not even be a top 5 WR in this class.

I disagree that Stills will be more coveted than DeSean. DeSean is a better player.

He was a big part of making Chris Thompson a major part of the game plan. Fast athletic RBs who can be a mismatch in the passing game became a big part of the gameplan. IMO you can find RBs late especially backups. Even as a cheaper backup RB Cunningham will cost 3 times as much as a a late round rookie

Chris Thompson was a big part of the game plan because they had nobody else to play that role. Logan doesn't work in that role unless he can block like Thompson does. That's the biggest thing that Cunningham offers; he's a good blocker. You need that. You can't be a third down HB in the NFL if you can't block.

$1.5 million per year is a drop in the bucket for what Benny provides.
 

StealYoGurley

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Jones was 6'2", a legitimate red-zone threat, and a quality route runner. He had fringe #1 WR potential. Stills is a deep threat.

There's also the fact that last year's WR class was very weak. Marvin Jones was the top WR in that class. Stills might not even be a top 5 WR in this class.

I disagree that Stills will be more coveted than DeSean. DeSean is a better player.

I didn't mean he would be more coveted than Desean. I just said his age makes him attractive.

Jones got paid the market value for his production. His production is way more in line with Marvin Jones than it is with 6.5 million per year Mohamed Sanu makes. He has more consistent production than Travis Benjamin who only had 1 good year and 3 below average years before signing a 6 million dollar deal. I just don't see Stills making 4 million dollars less per year than Tavon. Agents go into negotiations with numbers and recent contracts at the position it doesn't matter if Jones got his money in a weak class he is still in line with the market value and so is Stills. . Stills numbers and the recent contracts at the position are in line with the 8 mill per year range and thats before salary adjustments when the cap goes up.
 

jrry32

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I didn't mean he would be more coveted than Desean. I just said his age makes him attractive.

Jones got paid the market value for his production. His production is way more in line with Marvin Jones than it is with 6.5 million per year Mohamed Sanu makes. He has more consistent production than Travis Benjamin who only had 1 good year and 3 below average years before signing a 6 million dollar deal. I just don't see Stills making 4 million dollars less per year than Tavon. Agents go into negotiations with numbers and recent contracts at the position it doesn't matter if Jones got his money in a weak class he is still in line with the market value and so is Stills. . Stills numbers and the recent contracts at the position are in line with the 8 mill per year range and thats before salary adjustments when the cap goes up.

That's not a good comparison. It would be like me saying that I can't see Stills making more money per year than Antonio Brown.

Who is Stills more comparable to...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/mike-wallace-5942/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/travis-benjamin-9913/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/golden-Taint-6568/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/mohamed-sanu-9893/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/eric-decker-6595/
or
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/torrey-smith-7777/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/marvin-jones-9987/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/antonio-brown-6702/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/michael-crabtree-5964/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/brandon-marshall-3182/

It's hard to gauge where the value of a guy like Stills lies. But I see him as more similar to Travis Benjamin than Marvin Jones. I think he'll get around $7 million per year.
 

StealYoGurley

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That's not a good comparison. It would be like me saying that I can't see Stills making more money per year than Antonio Brown.

Who is Stills more comparable to...
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/mike-wallace-5942/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-chargers/travis-benjamin-9913/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/golden-Taint-6568/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/mohamed-sanu-9893/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/eric-decker-6595/
or
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/torrey-smith-7777/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/marvin-jones-9987/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/antonio-brown-6702/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/michael-crabtree-5964/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/brandon-marshall-3182/

It's hard to gauge where the value of a guy like Stills lies. But I see him as more similar to Travis Benjamin than Marvin Jones. I think he'll get around $7 million per year.

Antonio Brown signed that contract in 2013 completely different market way before mega contracts like Julio, Demaryius, and Dez. Guys like Allen hurns, Keenan Allen, and Doug Baldwin all make more than him Brown. As a result AB is probably looking for an extension that matches the current market.

I am just saying the market goes up every year with the cap increases. The 7 million you think is comparable to those guys last year will be at least 8 mil this year.

I disagree Stills is more comparable to Marvin Jones his pre Free Agency seasonal averages are actually better than Jones' and way better than Benajmins. Travis Benajmins pre free agency seasonal average was 420.75 yards per season and 2.5 TDs. Jones' pre free agency average was 576.3 yards and 3 tds (missed a season with an injury). Stills averaged 684 yards per season and 6 TDs per year. Better than both guys

I guess we will get a final answer in a few weeks.
 

codeman

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Some Thoughts:
I love Everett Moreau and Rivers. The 37th pick in the draft might be a tad rich for Everett but he would look nice in Mcvay's scheme.
Garcon and Warford would be huge gets for the offense.
I agree with Jrry I'm not the biggest fan of Stills especially over 7+ million per year.
I don't see the point in getting rid of Zuerlein.
Getting rid of Tru for Mccourty is a pretty big downgrade in the secondary.
Good work the team would be better.
 

jrry32

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Antonio Brown signed that contract in 2013 completely different market way before mega contracts like Julio, Demaryius, and Dez. Guys like Allen hurns, Keenan Allen, and Doug Baldwin all make more than him Brown. As a result AB is probably looking for an extension that matches the current market.

I am just saying the market goes up every year with the cap increases. The 7 million you think is comparable to those guys last year will be at least 8 mil this year.

I disagree Stills is more comparable to Marvin Jones his pre Free Agency seasonal averages are actually better than Jones' and way better than Benajmins. Travis Benajmins pre free agency seasonal average was 420.75 yards per season and 2.5 TDs. Jones' pre free agency average was 576.3 yards and 3 tds (missed a season with an injury). Stills averaged 684 yards per season and 6 TDs per year. Better than both guys

I guess we will get a final answer in a few weeks.

This is a very misleading breakdown, and I'm sure you know that. Stills played a major role in his team's passing game each of his four years in the NFL. And two of those four years were in New Orleans with Drew Brees. Marvin Jones played a major role in his team's passing game in two of his three healthy seasons with Andy Dalton at QB. Travis Benjamin played a major role in only one of his four seasons in Cleveland with Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel at QB.

If you compare those years, you come up with:
Marvin Jones - 58 receptions, 764 receiving yards, and 7 receiving TDs
Kenny Stills - 41 receptions, 685 receiving yards, and 5 receiving TDs
Travis Benjamin - 68 receptions, 966 receiving yards, and 5 receiving TDs

Now, obviously, Travis Benjamin only having one year of production will hurt him. But Stills didn't outproduce those guys when each rose to a starter-like role.

And AGAIN, I will point out that Marvin Jones was 6'2" with #1 WR potential and was the best WR in his class. Stills is not the best WR in this class. He does not have #1 WR potential.

Fact is that $7 million is accounting for the rising cap. A year ago, I think Stills gets $6 million to $6.5 million like Travis Benjamin. He offers the same skill-set.
 
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StealYoGurley

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This is misleading and intellectually dishonest, and you know it. Stills played a major role in his team's passing game each of his four years in the NFL. And two of those four years were in New Orleans with Drew Brees. Marvin Jones played a major role in his team's passing game in two of his three healthy seasons with Andy Dalton at QB. Travis Benjamin played a major role in only one of his four seasons in Cleveland with Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel at QB.

If you compare those years, you come up with:
Marvin Jones - 58 receptions, 764 receiving yards, and 7 receiving TDs
Kenny Stills - 41 receptions, 685 receiving yards, and 5 receiving TDs
Travis Benjamin - 68 receptions, 966 receiving yards, and 5 receiving TDs

Now, obviously, Travis Benjamin only having one year of production will hurt him. But Stills didn't outproduce those guys when each rose to a starter-like role.

And AGAIN, I will point out that Marvin Jones was 6'2" with #1 WR potential and was the best WR in his class. Stills is not the best WR in this class. He does not have #1 WR potential.

Fact is that $7 million is accounting for the rising cap. A year ago, I think Stills gets $6 million to $6.5 million like Travis Benjamin. He offers the same skill-set.

I am tired of debating this we will just have to wait and see when the numbers come in few weeks.
 

A.J. Hicks

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Chris Thompson was a big part of the game plan because they had nobody else to play that role. Logan doesn't work in that role unless he can block like Thompson does. That's the biggest thing that Cunningham offers; he's a good blocker. You need that. You can't be a third down HB in the NFL if you can't block.

$1.5 million per year is a drop in the bucket for what Benny provides.

I'm a big fan of Cunningham. I don't want to see him leave.

I keep telling my buddies who are Raider fans that they aught to skip paying Murray and sign up Benny. It'll be way cheaper and he'd be a good fit with that offense and would run well behind that line.
 

DaveFan'51

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This isn't a good tackle class and teams are always looking for good tackles,
I would be too sure about this^! I have at least 8 or 9 OT's, going into the Combine that could go in the first 3 rounds!(y);)