Super Bowl Or Bust?

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kurtfaulk

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*Mangini said the Rams "Got nothing" for Sammy Watkins. We got one year of a guy that scored 8 touchdowns and opened up our offense. AND we get a 3rd round compensation next year. Bite me Mangini.

that's because magina probably only read the cliff notes a couple of minutes before coming on the show. he has no idea the rams were getting a comp pick for watkins leaving. i love how they declare the winner of the trade. the rams got exactly what they wanted. the cheats got draft capital. nobody has a clue if they'll hit or if they'll miss.

we were all high fiving when the rams selected grob at #2 because he was supposedly gonna be the next great tackle. 3 years later we were all high fiving because the rams got a 6th rounder for him.

.
 

XXXIVwin

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April 14 will be the 2 year anniversary of the Goff trade. At the time, many critics of the trade (including a few Rams fans) worried that the Rams were “mortgaging the future” by sacrificing so many premium picks in 2016 and 2017.

Isn’t it safe to say now the “mortgaging the future” criticism was wrong?

Rams draft haul from 2016-2017 includes Goff, Kupp, Johnson, Ebukam, Everett, Reynolds, Higbee, and Cooper, as well as some depth guys in Thomas, Smart, Hemingway, and Price. 5-6 starters, 2 Pro Bowlers, and some depth too? Awfully nice haul from 2 drafts where we supposedly had screwed the pooch.

Oh, and BTW, as far as cap space for 2019-2020, we do have almost a quarter BILLION

25815634-9FAC-4493-A532-00B3BF4F6982.jpeg


dollars in cap space, so we definitely have some wiggle room.

My point is, Snead and McVay have earned our trust. I appreciate those who are pointing out potential problems, but I really think they are gonna figure out a way for the Championship Window to stay open for a good long while.
 

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Karate61

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Akrasian

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*Mangini said the Rams "Got nothing" for Sammy Watkins. We got one year of a guy that scored 8 touchdowns and opened up our offense. AND we get a 3rd round compensation next year. Bite me Mangini.

We didn't just get that - we got that and had a cap hit of $662k. For 2018 that is the first year cap hit of pick 105 - a 4th rounder. That was a bunch of money saved relative to production - some spent last season, some of it was among the $5 million rolled over to this season. So some of the production the Rams will get this season is due to money savings from the Watkins trade.
 

Ramrasta

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We are set up to win our division (on paper) and make a strong run in the playoffs. However, NFL teams in practice rarely equate to what they are on paper. The Jets were thought to be the worst team in the league last year and they weren’t even bottom five. The Bucs were supposed to make the jump and they went 5-11. I’m optimistic that we will be better than last year. We will probably just have some chemistry issues to fix.

We have a strong team this season but I, like many here, dont know if it’s sustainable. Say what you will about cap space but our front office has shown me very little ability to retain our stars. Then you look at the free agents after next season and it’s a little scary. We have a handful of guys that will demand top market value (which grows every year):

Name. Projected 2019 Market Value
Brandin Cooks $16,500,000.00
Ndamukong Suh $12,500,000.00
Aaron Donald $20,750,000.00
LaMarcus Joyner $10,600,000.00

Then you have the other free agents:
Sean Mannion, Tavon Austin, Malcolm Brown, Rodger Saffold, Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein, Ethan Westbrooks, Matt Longacre, Dominique Easley, Bryce Hager, Ramik Wilson, Morgan Fox, Cory Littleton, Carlos Thompson, Troy Hill, Isaiah Johnson, Kayvon Webster, Sam Shields, Blake Countess, Kevin Peterson, and Sam Ficken.

Our trenches are what is in trouble. We need to lock some of these guys up soon.
 

nighttrain

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We are set up to win our division (on paper) and make a strong run in the playoffs. However, NFL teams in practice rarely equate to what they are on paper. The Jets were thought to be the worst team in the league last year and they weren’t even bottom five. The Bucs were supposed to make the jump and they went 5-11. I’m optimistic that we will be better than last year. We will probably just have some chemistry issues to fix.

We have a strong team this season but I, like many here, dont know if it’s sustainable. Say what you will about cap space but our front office has shown me very little ability to retain our stars. Then you look at the free agents after next season and it’s a little scary. We have a handful of guys that will demand top market value (which grows every year):

Name. Projected 2019 Market Value
Brandin Cooks $16,500,000.00
Ndamukong Suh $12,500,000.00
Aaron Donald $20,750,000.00
LaMarcus Joyner $10,600,000.00

Then you have the other free agents:
Sean Mannion, Tavon Austin, Malcolm Brown, Rodger Saffold, Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein, Ethan Westbrooks, Matt Longacre, Dominique Easley, Bryce Hager, Ramik Wilson, Morgan Fox, Cory Littleton, Carlos Thompson, Troy Hill, Isaiah Johnson, Kayvon Webster, Sam Shields, Blake Countess, Kevin Peterson, and Sam Ficken.

Our trenches are what is in trouble. We need to lock some of these guys up soon.
Tell me one thing, who was the last player you wanted to stay a Ram that didnt?
train
 

FarNorth

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We are set up to win our division (on paper) and make a strong run in the playoffs. However, NFL teams in practice rarely equate to what they are on paper. The Jets were thought to be the worst team in the league last year and they weren’t even bottom five. The Bucs were supposed to make the jump and they went 5-11. I’m optimistic that we will be better than last year. We will probably just have some chemistry issues to fix.

We have a strong team this season but I, like many here, dont know if it’s sustainable. Say what you will about cap space but our front office has shown me very little ability to retain our stars. Then you look at the free agents after next season and it’s a little scary. We have a handful of guys that will demand top market value (which grows every year):

Name. Projected 2019 Market Value
Brandin Cooks $16,500,000.00
Ndamukong Suh $12,500,000.00
Aaron Donald $20,750,000.00
LaMarcus Joyner $10,600,000.00

Then you have the other free agents:
Sean Mannion, Tavon Austin, Malcolm Brown, Rodger Saffold, Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein, Ethan Westbrooks, Matt Longacre, Dominique Easley, Bryce Hager, Ramik Wilson, Morgan Fox, Cory Littleton, Carlos Thompson, Troy Hill, Isaiah Johnson, Kayvon Webster, Sam Shields, Blake Countess, Kevin Peterson, and Sam Ficken.

Our trenches are what is in trouble. We need to lock some of these guys up soon.

I actually think we are in as good or better a shape going forward as any NFL team is likely to be given free agency. Every team faces resigning of key free agents and uncertainties every year. The Rams are simply doing a better job than others at responding to these challenges.

I believe we have the outline of a deal in place with Aaron Donald, waiting on final numbers and distribution of money over time. We will get another nose tackle in the draft in case Suh leaves. Getting Cooks is a brilliant move for the O, turning a key weakness into a strength. I think we can resign him, he is not a prima donna, we will have to pay market value but we can get him.

We have a core group of outstanding young stars, the money to resign them, and enough draft picks to backfill other spots with young lower round players. This kind of mix-- money to key young talent, surrounded by low cost but effective players-- imo is exactly the way to build and sustain a highly competitive team. And we have shown the ability both to acquire great players and to astutely draft starters in the lower rounds. This is not a one-off season approach, it will continue. We have the outstanding management team and owner in place to make it happen.

This imo is the kind of path forward and distribution of talent which the economics of the game now demands if you want to be good. It is an aggressive paradigm, yeah, but how else would you build a great team? What else would a top notch NFL roster look like?

In short, while nothing in the future is certain, it appears to me that, far from being on the brink of future failure, we are far more likely in the process of demonstrating a model for success.
 

Ramrasta

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Tell me one thing, who was the last player you wanted to stay a Ram that didnt?
train

The most recent guy is probably TruJ although he seemed to just be after money this offseason.


I actually think we are in as good or better a shape going forward as any NFL team is likely to be given free agency. Every team faces resigning of key free agents and uncertainties every year. The Rams are simply doing a better job than others at responding to these challenges.

I believe we have the outline of a deal in place with Aaron Donald, waiting on final numbers and distribution of money over time. We will get another nose tackle in the draft in case Suh leaves. Getting Cooks is a brilliant move for the O, turning a key weakness into a strength. I think we can resign him, he is not a prima donna, we will have to pay market value but we can get him.

We have a core group of outstanding young stars, the money to resign them, and enough draft picks to backfill other spots with young lower round players. This kind of mix-- money to key young talent, surrounded by low cost but effective players-- imo is exactly the way to build and sustain a highly competitive team. And we have shown the ability both to acquire great players and to astutely draft starters in the lower rounds. This is not a one-off season approach, it will continue. We have the outstanding management team and owner in place to make it happen.

This imo is the kind of path forward and distribution of talent which the economics of the game now demands if you want to be good. It is an aggressive paradigm, yeah, but how else would you build a great team? What else would a top notch NFL roster look like?

In short, while nothing in the future is certain, it appears to me that, far from being on the brink of future failure, we are far more likely in the process of demonstrating a model for success.

My problem here is that we forced ourselves to need to sign these guys. We gave up the front end of our draft for them and it’s hard to draft starters in the late rounds. Most other NFL teams can afford to lose guys because they can draft a guy early that will be with them 4-5 years. The drafted guys are a gamble but they are way cheaper too.
 

ProGen

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My problem here is that we forced ourselves to need to sign these guys. We gave up the front end of our draft for them and it’s hard to draft starters in the late rounds. Most other NFL teams can afford to lose guys because they can draft a guy early that will be with them 4-5 years. The drafted guys are a gamble but they are way cheaper too.
I get you. It's about balance, because this is a numbers ($$$) game. We now HAVE to sign these guys, due to lack of other options (such as non-existent draft picks) and that then forces the rest of the roster outside of 4, 5 or 6 massively paid stars to be fighting over a disproportionately small percentage of the remaining cap. It will be interesting to see who the Rams FO decide on keeping and view as integral pieces and who they don't, because they can't afford to become too top heavy as it kills the equilibrium.

For me, it's great to add all these stars, but when looking at our LB'ers, I can't see where we are gonna generate the edge rush and become stouter against the run than we were last year. I am not comfortable with Hager, Littleton, Ebukam, Barron and Longacre getting it done. Sure, Suh will help...but still...our run D was sickening last year and had this impending sense of inevitability that RB's were gonna pop one on us at any minute.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. I'm excited by the additions of all these star players, but I can't help but feel, this MAY have sustainability issues, but the bottom line is, we don't know. We just gotta hope the big swinging dicks of Rams HQ know what they are doing!

Plus, lets get things in perspective. Things are good right now for Rams fans. I am WAY more excited for this season than ANY season in the last decade and a half.
 

CGI_Ram

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I found this article on a 9er's website. The author thinks the rams window might be larger than some think.
http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1816-west-los-angeles-rams-window-winning-larger-think/

Good read.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1816-west-los-angeles-rams-window-winning-larger-think/

NFC West: Why the Los Angeles Rams’ window of winning may be larger than you think

Recently, I wrote an article on the 49ers Webzone titled: Are the Los Angeles Rams sending a competitive message to the 49ers? Recently, the Los Angeles Rams traded for former New England Patriots' wide receiver Brandin Cooks. The Rams expect Cooks to be their deep threat in 2018, replacing former Rams' deep threat wide receiver Sammy Watkins.

The Rams are expected to try and work out a contract extension with Cooks, who's under a fifth-year option worth roughly $8.5 million. The Rams still have to find ways to fit Cooks' salary under the 2018 cap, but you have to figure they wouldn't have made the trade if they couldn't get creative with dollars and cents.

The narratives that have been surfacing

How are the Rams trading for all these big name players? Do the Rams have the cap space to make all these trades work or to be sustainable long-term? The Rams don't have any draft capital left to replenish what they have lost already, do they?

The Rams only have a one- or two-year window to be competitive right? Hold those thoughts and allow me to paint a better picture of the Rams' short-term to long-term plan.

Building through the draft at a glance

The Rams have their franchise quarterback already in place in Jared Goff (heading into his third year), a franchise running back in Todd Gurley (heading into his fourth year), and a starting slot receiver Cooper Kupp (heading into his second year), tight end Gerald Everett (taken in the second round in 2017 and heading into his second season).

They have starting strong safety John Johnson (third round pick, heading into his second year), wide receiver Josh Reynolds (6-foot-3 and 198 pounds, a fourth-round pick, red zone threat who started one game and is heading into his second season), and 3-4 edge rusher Samson Ebukam (a 6-foot-3, 240 pounds, fourth-round pick, expected starter in 2018, who started two games and posted two sacks in 2017).

As well as wide receiver Pharoh Cooper (heading into his third season, made the Pro Bowl and All-Pro team as a return-specialist), and starting tight end Tyler Higbee (taken in the fourth round in 2016, and heading into his third season).

Did I mention all the players named above are under 25 years old?

As for All-Pro defensive tackle and reigning Defensive Player of the Year Aaron Donald, he's up for a big payday, and won't turn 27 years young until May. Donald is regarded and well recognized as the best at his position and most disruptive defensive player in the NFL. The Rams and Donald are expected to come to an agreement on a contract extension in the near future.

Hitting in free agency

Rams wide receiver Robert Woods' contract of five years and $34 million looks like one of the better bargains of 2017 for a number two wideout (56 catches for 781 yards at 13.9 per catch and seven total touchdowns, two from rushing, in 11 starts).

Woods caught 66 percent of his passes and is only 25 years old.

Left tackle Andrew Whitworth signed a free agent deal worth $33.75 million over three years and at 36 years young, helps provide the kind of protection that made Goff one of the least sacked (just 25 times) quarterbacks in the NFL last season.

Look for the Rams to address tackle at some point in the draft; center John Sullivan, who recently re-signed with the team for two years, worth $15 million. Sullivan, at 32 years of age, started 15 games in 2017 and provided security protection for Goff, as well as opening up holes for MVP candidate Gurley.

Looking at the Rams' draft capital over the next two years

In the 2018 NFL Draft, the Rams have eight picks between rounds three and six (three fourth-round picks). In 2019, the Rams have six of their own draft picks after trading a future second-round pick in 2019, in the Marcus Peters trade.

However, as it stands now, they are on course to pick up two third-round compensatory picks in 2019, which can now be traded.

The Rams have the draft capital over the next couple years and beyond to replace or add to their depth, or restock potential lost starters down the line.

The Rams cap situation

The Rams have a projected $90 million in cap space in 2019 and $159 million in 2020 (according to OverTheCap.com). The Rams have the necessary cap space to lock down their core players for the next few years, as they see fit.

Why the Los Angeles Rams' window of winning may be larger than you think

The Rams don't need to extend Gurley this year as the team can pick up his fifth-year option in 2019; this will buy them time on an extension. The Rams have plenty of time to extend Goff to a long term-deal based on him just heading into his third year. The Rams could wait two more years if they so choose to, and have the franchise tag at their disposal.

Defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh is really a one-year rental, and he's expected to take a fair-market deal in 2019, if his production and personality warrant a return. If he doesn't and elects to leave for a larger payday in free agency come 2019, the Rams could get a compensatory pick for losing him.

Cornerback Aqib Talib comes off the books in two years and in 2019, his salary dips from $11 million to $8 million.

As previously mentioned, the Rams have quality depth that they're grooming behind Talib and Peters. They can rent Peters' services over the next two years with a fifth-year option before considering an extension for him (quality depth like cornerback Kevin Peterson who intercepted Jimmy Garoppolo twice and is an exclusive restricted free agent in 2019).

In closing, the Rams have the ammunition needed to sustain a winning/highly competitive culture (assuming they stay relatively healthy in their core players), longer than the two-year window "narrative" would suggest.

Recent Niners Live article alerts: How Adrian Colbert will Punish WR Brandin Cooks with ExtremeViolence.

What should the 49ers do to counter (2018 NFL Draft: No Pass-Rusher, "No Rings") the Rams? Stay the course and continue to build through the draft, extend their young, talented players sooner than later, and continue to make player development a priority.

Sequoia Sims: Founder of Niners Live, Content Creator, player breakdown specialist, and Senior Author. The home of the faithful fan and analyst from an objective/analytical lens, and different perspective, of course.
 

shaunpinney

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Bust will be if we don't have a good run post-season.

I think McVay & Snead are building an excellent team, upgrading positions as we're going along this process. Sure we have some BIG names, which may expect BIG paydays, then again I believe Suh could have made more money elsewhere. The way I see McVay is playing it is like this, he's got his CORE, which are elite players (Donald, Gurley, Goff, Hekker, Woods, Kupp Suh, Peters, Talib, Zuerlein), he's then surrounding them is a cast of many, usually found in the lower half of the draft Fox (undrafted), Longacre (undrafted), Eldrenkamp (undrafted) Smart (6th), Westbrooks (undrafted), Ebukam (4th), Price (7th).

I'll leave the paying of the players up to Demoff - I don't hold the purse strings...

Sure they're giving up the top realestate in the draft, but I think they're picking the best possible players, remember when McVay said Kromer didn't like anyone on the OL side of the ball apart from 1 guy in last year's draft - that guy was Eldernkamp and they got him as an UDFA. I think this regime is doing some serious due diligence on all players, that includes draft, FA and other teams rosters, to pick the RIGHT players for the team.
 

kurtfaulk

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.

I already know the rams got the steal of the draft in 2019. Marcus peters for a 2nd rounder.

And in the 1st round this year they got the wr they really wanted and he's already proven to be very good, Brandon cooks.

Nice using your draft picks getting pro bowl type talent.

.
 

Zaphod

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I'm not the only one playing devil's advocate, but I'm also not sure about sustainability.

This team has created a winning environment and players are already wanting to play for the Rams. And why not use such an obvious contrast, this is the exact opposite of what was happening with Fisher's regime who held on to draft picks, whom even when they were successful selections were difficult to hold onto.

I also disagree that this team is headed toward mediocrity, Donald, Suh and Brockers are anything but mediocre. Suh would not have considered this team if they were still turning out hapless performances. If anything, this is also a great way to develop later round talent as they play in a successful system, which is absolutely better.

If for nothing else, I can appreciate chances being taken on picks in the later rounds rather than on flashy players in the early rounds, another welcome contrary.

Finally, this is not meant to be sustainable as they are currently turning over their roster not only in an attempt to move on from the previous regimes choice of athletic types who never really developed into their desired roles, but also for players who are a better fit for his system.
 

BonifayRam

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5 moves the Rams can make to free up cap space
https://theramswire.usatoday.com/20...lary-cap-moves-space-cut-restructure-trade/5/

By: Cameron DaSilva | April 5, 2018

Unlike MLB, the NFL has a salary cap. It makes roster-building far more difficult, forcing teams to be conscientious when signing players to contracts and making trades.

The Rams are definitely learning that this offseason after acquiring Marcus Peters, Aqib Talib, Ndamukong Suh and Brandin Cooks, among others. As a result, they’re pushed right up against the cap, having about $4.9 million in spending money without accounting for Cooks’ $8.5 million hit and Ramik Wilson’s deal.

As a result, they’ll need to do some finagling before the season begins. In order to free up some much-needed cap space, the Rams can make these five moves...............


Click above to read this long article. Enjoy!
 

BonifayRam

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We are set up to win our division (on paper) and make a strong run in the playoffs. However, NFL teams in practice rarely equate to what they are on paper. The Jets were thought to be the worst team in the league last year and they weren’t even bottom five. The Bucs were supposed to make the jump and they went 5-11. I’m optimistic that we will be better than last year. We will probably just have some chemistry issues to fix.

We have a strong team this season but I, like many here, dont know if it’s sustainable. Say what you will about cap space but our front office has shown me very little ability to retain our stars. Then you look at the free agents after next season and it’s a little scary. We have a handful of guys that will demand top market value (which grows every year):

Name. Projected 2019 Market Value
Brandin Cooks $16,500,000.00
Ndamukong Suh $12,500,000.00
Aaron Donald $20,750,000.00
LaMarcus Joyner $10,600,000.00

Then you have the other free agents:
Sean Mannion, Tavon Austin, Malcolm Brown, Rodger Saffold, Jamon Brown, Rob Havenstein, Ethan Westbrooks, Matt Longacre, Dominique Easley, Bryce Hager, Ramik Wilson, Morgan Fox, Cory Littleton, Carlos Thompson, Troy Hill, Isaiah Johnson, Kayvon Webster, Sam Shields, Blake Countess, Kevin Peterson, and Sam Ficken.

Our trenches are what is in trouble. We need to lock some of these guys up soon.

Just thinking out of the box here IF the Rams are unable to sign Lamarcus Joyner & Brandon Cooks plus Ndamukong Suh departs & the figures #no's you posted above were attained by these three ex Rams as UFA's would the Rams stand to land up to three compensatory picks possible all of them third rounders for the 2020 NFL draft?
 

OregonRamsFan

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*Mangini said the Rams "Got nothing" for Sammy Watkins. We got one year of a guy that scored 8 touchdowns and opened up our offense. AND we get a 3rd round compensation next year. Bite me Mangini.
I believe his name is actually spelled “Mangina.” I could be wrong :)
 

Turducken

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Stop. You know it's not sustainable Mack. Teams don't hit on mid to late round picks enough year-to-year to be able to constantly mortgage the future by flipping high picks for rentals. You can play the "well Les might be good enough we'll see" card all day, but the fact is nobody is that good at drafting. Even the Patriots, who are masters at roster replenishment and staying on top, understand that and insulate themselves against whiffs by flipping guys to teams who are willing to roll the dice.

Not being a wet blanket here, either. It is what it is. I like what this team is right now, and I like the addition of a WR who is not an @$$ clown vice going after OBJ. Les has done a fine job of getting the pieces in here for a run.

But that doesn't mean we should overlook the truth of things, that the dinner bill keeps getting bigger. Looking ahead does matter and it does affect us. The OL is a problem. The signings of what will be multiple high end players (yes it's a good thing too) loom as a critical thing too. Truth is that this offseason has put even more pressure and emphasis on Kevin Demoff.

And the truth is that while we all like the dude, he has an enormous body of work he's gotta get done now. So hopefully he'll start actually signing high end players for us now before they hit the market. Because if he doesn't our miraculous window that just opened up is going to be very short.
I have had some of the same thoughts, but there is one potentially big variable in all this that will change the math in three years. The current CBA expires after 2020. This is a big reason for all these short term contacts. Players are gambling that the curent salary cap structure will be shattered in renegotiations and they will be able to make substantially more moving forward. For the ownership side they know big changes are coming and there is already talk of a lockout. Maybe putting everything in on the next three years is a worthwhile strategy when you cant predict what the rules will be in year four.
 

LesBaker

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Thats the mentality for a contender. We are just still so used to sucking that a playoff appearance felt like shooting the moon. Now, we are a team to be reckoned with - so hell year, its Super Bowl or bust.

Awesome Hearts reference!!! I haven't played in years........
 

Ramrasta

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I get you. It's about balance, because this is a numbers ($$$) game. We now HAVE to sign these guys, due to lack of other options (such as non-existent draft picks) and that then forces the rest of the roster outside of 4, 5 or 6 massively paid stars to be fighting over a disproportionately small percentage of the remaining cap. It will be interesting to see who the Rams FO decide on keeping and view as integral pieces and who they don't, because they can't afford to become too top heavy as it kills the equilibrium.

For me, it's great to add all these stars, but when looking at our LB'ers, I can't see where we are gonna generate the edge rush and become stouter against the run than we were last year. I am not comfortable with Hager, Littleton, Ebukam, Barron and Longacre getting it done. Sure, Suh will help...but still...our run D was sickening last year and had this impending sense of inevitability that RB's were gonna pop one on us at any minute.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. I'm excited by the additions of all these star players, but I can't help but feel, this MAY have sustainability issues, but the bottom line is, we don't know. We just gotta hope the big swinging dicks of Rams HQ know what they are doing!

Plus, lets get things in perspective. Things are good right now for Rams fans. I am WAY more excited for this season than ANY season in the last decade and a half.

I have to agree that our linebacker group is looking like one of the worst in the NFL right now and we need help in the running game more than ever.

Luckily, Shaquem Griffin should be there in the 3rd for us (if we have the balls to pick him). His speed, effort, and competitive drive are exactly what we need. He can rush the passer off the edge and not let the rusher beat him to the edge (since they likely won’t run up the gut with Suh and Donald). Perfect fit.

Just thinking out of the box here IF the Rams are unable to sign Lamarcus Joyner & Brandon Cooks plus Ndamukong Suh departs & the figures #no's you posted above were attained by these three ex Rams as UFA's would the Rams stand to land up to three compensatory picks possible all of them third rounders for the 2020 NFL draft?

There is that possibility but it’s hard to think about letting all three walk. I would hope we at least sign either Joyner or Cooks. Suh is no spring chicken and we didn’t trade anything to get him so I don’t mind if he is a one year rental.