Second-string Center Could Be Our Achilles Heel

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Soul Surfer

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As a sufferer of Battered Rams Fan Syndrome (BaRFS), I do not assume any free agent will pan out. So not only am I concerned about second-string C, I do not assume that Sullivan will automatically step back out on a field after not playing for so long and play well or stay healthy. Same with Whitworth, the "in 35-year old we trust" mentality boggles my mind after all we've seen go wrong over the last two decades, I can't just assume he lasts for a significant amount of time before being out with injury or has lost a step or three.
I also suffer from barfs as well, bot.

That is why I totally agree with you and am most worried about the Center position.
Such an extremely important position.

Left tackle I am less worried about because I do think that Kromer can coach up Robinson for a one-year fix if needed. Also Robinson would have to realize this is now or never if he wants that huge contract so I expect max effort and concentration out of him. ( but I would still trade him for a bag of deflated footballs because that is more of a sure thing )

The one that intrigues me is Pace Murphy. He has excelled at every level he's played at.

Donnal also rated highly, especially for a backup and is a pretty good technician in pass protection.

Even a healthy Havenstein might be able to pull off left tackle for a couple of games if Whitworth gets nicked up.
 

So Ram

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I am of the strong opinion that 1 or 2 of the 10 Ram OL'ers from last year roster will work out @ the center's post.

I just do not see it as an issue.Like I have said in the past that with the Line Calls being made by McVay the learning process will not be such a sharp steep learning curve as one where the center is responsible for such important duties..

Totally agree . I think the offensive line is set as far as roster, barring injury.
I also believe by cross training players it adds to depth. If McVay keeps saying we need as many play makers on the roster as we can get. You can never have to many.
To me I take it as less offensive lineman on 53.
Ram fans are saying we need a center.That is why JohnnSullivan is so good to have. McVay say John was excellent in the class room part of it this week.
1. He knows McVays offense 2. He brings leadership.
The thing about having any of these other guys as back ups, is can they play Guard ?

1.Robinson is going to have to play both RT & LT
2.Big Rob RG then he says also LG RT (LT?) ,thanksful not Center
3. Jamon Brown ?? My guess both Guards ??
4.Whichmann LG,RG,C
5.Sullivan C
7.Saffold LG I think you keep him there maybe LT
8.Whitmore straight LT straight up
9 Donnal - He has already played LT,RT,RG,LG

There lies 1 spot on the line.
 

den-the-coach

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I hope you're right but the stumper is; how come he couldn't beat out Barnes?

Experience and it was a different coaching staff....Also I was ready to cut Rhaney lose last year because he was an epic fail in 2015, but again he did play very well in preseason so I'm not posting he might be the one kept, but I'm anxious to see what he does under Kromer.
 

Rams43

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There seems to be a big disconnect between some (emphasis some) fans and the Ram coaching staff as to the need for an outside this roster backup C.

I'm gonna side with these coaches. I'm certain that they're all over it.

Besides, there's still 4 months of tryout time to go before opening day. If they need to make a course correction, that's plenty of time.

No worries here regarding backup C at this time.
 

Soul Surfer

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How does McVay make the line calls?

They cut the quarterbacks earphones off when the play clock reaches 15 seconds.

Defenses know this and that's why they shift at that point.

Wouldn't the Quarterback or Center have to make the line calls at that point?
 

LACHAMP46

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Andrew Donnal, Cody Wichman, or Jamon Brown are my choices for backup center. Shouldn't be a problem.
 

Soul Surfer

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Whitworth might be older but physically he is younger in that he has not gone through any injuries even though he's played more years as a starter than Sullivan.

We have experienced depth at tackle, even left tackle.

We do not have experienced depth at Center.

I give Sullivan 50/50 to make it through the season without going on IR because it is past few years history.

When/if he goes down, it becomes a big deal because of the unknown factor.

We will know at the end of Preseason what they think of our centers if they grab someone else's cut.
 

Soul Surfer

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Andrew Donnal, Cody Wichman, or Jamon Brown are my choices for backup center. Shouldn't be a problem.
Right. Other than the fact that they have zero starts as a pro center or ever played center before or even been a second-string center.

Other than that?

We're golden. :D
 

CanadaRam

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If second string center is the Rams Achilles heel, 2017 will be a fabulous year.

As others have pointed out, there seem to be a number of possibilities. With Sullivan injury history, I would be very surprised if the Rams had no ideas what they were planning.
 

shaunpinney

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We also have our UDFAs in Jake Eldrenkamp, who was touted as a possible C pre-draft (I think this is the guy Snead was talking about when he mentioned the OL in the post-draft presser, the guy that Kromer liked and Anthony McMeans a C from New Mexico State.

 

Soul Surfer

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If second string center is the Rams Achilles heel, 2017 will be a fabulous year.
I kinda sorta get your point.

However the entire offense could go down the tubes if the center is sitting in Goff's lap when he tries to make a pass.

Also, running between the tackles becomes extremely difficult and less effective.

I love what the Rams are doing this year in every phase.

I also pride myself on NOT being a chicken little.

But you have to realize that the biggest problem with the Rams the last 12 years has been a pathetic O line.

I am personally sick of it.
 

OldSchool

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How does McVay make the line calls?

They cut the quarterbacks earphones off when the play clock reaches 15 seconds.

Defenses know this and that's why they shift at that point.

Wouldn't the Quarterback or Center have to make the line calls at that point?
In McVays system the QB will make the calls not the center.
 

Soul Surfer

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In McVays system the QB will make the calls not the center.
Right. I've read a couple times that posters said McVay would be making the line calls which I did not understand.

Let's hope that Goff is ready to hit the books as he learns a new offense and learns how to make line calls in a pro-style offense.
 

BonifayRam

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I somewhat disagree, Demetrius Rhaney had an excellent camp last year and played extremely well in preseason and is why he beat out Hard Knocks Star Eric Kush and IMO seemed a much better Center than Guard and I am interested to see how he is coached by Kromer.

That being posted Sullivan was able to hold up last season for 8 games and one other thing you have to factor in is that one of the other lineman like Cody Wichmann could also work at Center as well so that could improve the depth too..
Good Morning den, some of my 2 cents here....whats changed for Rhaney from late last season & now? First you are correct Rhaney has played better @ OC than OG mostly due to his 295 to 300 size issues.When Barnes was injured PB still went with a gimpy less effective Barnes over a fully healthy Rhaney? Line calls was the reason. Now that what has changed as positive for DR. The bad is AK likes taller bigger OL'ers across the OL. Another bad is DR who has played all 5 OL posts in his past is not a legit OG reserve under AK.The over 6-1 DR does not fit that but he could have worked real hard this past 4 months & gotten stronger we'll see. Ref. John Sullivan....IMO he was signed to assist McVay & AK in getting this new OL cadre ready with this new system. I do not consider him a real starting OC prospect but nothing but a 9 or 10th OL'er @ best.. I would bet all my ROD $$ that JS is placed on the IR when the regular season begins.
McVay's mentioned Brown converting to center a few weeks ago. It would fit with getting the five best players on the OLine.
Agree, Brown would be a fine prospective starting center.
Cody Wichmann has previously played some Center (in practices). Kromer talked about cross-training our guards at Center. It's possible that we see Wichmann or Brown as the #2 Center this year. I'd feel good about either there.
Agree here also.

When you look @ the OL roster currently we would expect that Whitworth will be starter @ LT, Havenstein starter @ RT/RG, Saffold starter either @ LG/RG/RT. The other 2 starting OL'ers is well Undetermined. AK has 5 pure OC/OG cadre in Wichmann, Brown, Rhaney & the 2 new interior Jake Eldrenkamp & Anthony McMeans. Wichmann [18 starts] & Brown [14 starts] the last two seasons, both give AK versatility & both have had limited development from back to back seasons with injuries. Both CW & JB should be prime AK sized starting OC prospects.

AK has 4 starting RT prospects in Williams, Murphy, Robinson & Donnal. Andrew Donnal has experience in NFL games both OG & both OT posts. AD was the late season 6 game starter finishers when the season concluded. AD is a serious starting RT prospect to push over Robinson & Murphy to work primarily @ LT reserve.PS. AD might also be a surprise starting center too. He is one smart heady OL'er.
As a sufferer of Battered Rams Fan Syndrome (BaRFS), I do not assume any free agent will pan out. So not only am I concerned about second-string C, I do not assume that Sullivan will automatically step back out on a field after not playing for so long and play well or stay healthy. Same with Whitworth, the "in 35-year old we trust" mentality boggles my mind after all we've seen go wrong over the last two decades, I can't just assume he lasts for a significant amount of time before being out with injury or has lost a step or three.
Any long term serious Ram fan is in the same boat with you. As far as Whitworth for this season AK has 3 good reserves in Saffold, Robinson & Pace Murphy available for any catastrophic events @ LT. The youthfull 6-6 311 pound Murphy is sure to get a HD workout in TC & pre season @ LT. I would also expect to see Saffold getting some 2nd tier action too.Snead IMO will address the Rams future LT prospect in the 2018 draft.
 

CanadaRam

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But you have to realize that the biggest problem with the Rams the last 12 years has been a pathetic O line.

I am personally sick of it.

Agree that it starts with the lines (especially on O), and that Rams have not got this right for oh so long.

Fisher said all the right things, and after the heavy drafting in 2015, I was hopeful that they had finally turned the corner (and understood). I really don't know what happened in 2016, so many seemed to regress (or not progress at all).

If the 5 Oline starters are all playing well and it is an injury to the C that is the biggest concern, then it means that Hav, GRob and G/C backups are doing well. That would be a good problem to have,
 

LACHAMP46

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Other than the fact that they have zero starts as a pro center or ever played center before or even been a second-string center.
One reason I always hype Donnal in most O-Line posts is because I saw him play on a very good Iowa line. His coach there is well respected and known for training their linemen in several positions. I also saw the improved play of Donnal last year. One of the few to actually do quite well. Here's a few takes on Iowa's program...this first read is about a 5th year senior named Welsh....
http://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/pos...elsh-embraces-versatility-raised-expectations
What’s the secret to your versatility on the offensive line?

Welsh: A lot of that has to do with [offensive-line] coach Brian [Ferentz]. He wants everyone to be able to adapt and compete. Positions change, and there are some differences. But a lot of what we do, it doesn’t change from position to position. If you can understand the bigger picture about a defense, the patterns are the same everywhere.
This one is on Frentz himself...what he learned from Cleveland (Blicheck)
http://buyersguide.coachesdirectory.com/article/offensive-line-drills-and-fundamentals-article.html
The first guy is Kirk Ferentz, our head football
coach at The University of Iowa. Kirk was a longtime offensive line coach at The University of Iowa
with Coach Hayden Fry for many years. Then, he went to the NFL and was a line coach for Bill
Belichick while at Cleveland. He was the line coach and assistant head coach with Ted
Marchibroda with the Baltimore Ravens. Then, Coach Ferentz came back to Iowa, where he took
a chance on me. Everything we do trickles down and comes from Kirk Ferentz and from his
background.......................Everything that I have talked about today is all fundamentals. Ultimately, though, what it
comes down to is effort.
He's been trained by one of the best....at multiple positions....and has had success in the pros at several positions already. I wouldn't doubt that Havenstein had the same type of excellent coaching and could play any position on the line as well. It's the main reason I do believe a backup/starting Center could be easily found on the team....Especially Donnall....
 

Riverumbbq

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Right. Other than the fact that they have zero starts as a pro center or ever played center before or even been a second-string center.

Other than that?

We're golden. :D

Neither had Lamp, but near everyone here was willing to sacrifice our early 2'nd round pick to do the same we are asking of Wichmann, Brown or Donnal.
 

MrRiceGuyRJ

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I think our Achilles heel is and seems to be regularly our offensive line, not the depth, but the starters. If we're concerned that our backup o-line is our weakness, then we're doing better than ever!