Scoring Defenses and how they've fared thus far in the Playoffs

[Merlin]

1. Vikings (15.8)... Beating the Saints as I type this. Probably advancing to NFC Championship game.
2. Jaguars (15.9)... Beat Bills and Steelers. Advancing to AFC Championship game.
3. Eagles (17.9)... Beat Falcons. Advancing to NFC Championship game.
4. Patriots (18.2)... Beat Titans. Advancing to AFC Championship game.
5. Falcons (19.1)... Beat Rams. Lost to Eagles.
6. Steelers (19.2)... Lost to Jaguars.
7. Saints (20.7)... Beat Panthers. Losing to Vikings as I type this.
8. Rams (20.9)... Lost to Falcons.
9. Panthers (21.1)... Lost to Saints.
10. Chiefs (21.2)... Lost to Titans.
11. Bills (21.7)... Lost to Jaguars.
12. Titans (22.9)... Beat Chiefs. Lost to Patriots.

Now, granted, postseason isn't always this obvious in terms of favoring scoring defense. Falcons of last year are good example (they were over 24ppg), but eventually their real defense showed up and cost them.

Rams need to get better on defense. IMO. Gotta get well below that 19ppg range.

 

[thirteen28]

Vita Vea.

 

[Merlin]

Vita Vea.

If he were to make it even close to 23 I have to think the Rams jump up and grab him. But he's gone top ten IMO. Hope not of course, but not gonna even get my hopes up.

Oh and it's official. All 4 of the top scoring defenses in the playoffs will be in next week's championship games. We gotta make this defense great again.

 

[TexasRam]

And yet jags give up 42.

Top 5 Defense isn’t the only road to a Championship game as history shows us. But this year it is.

Hopefully the top rated QB doesn’t Win it all this year.

 

[jrry32]

Vita Vea.

Da'Ron Payne

 

[Ramstien]

I guess the cliche is true defense wins chamionships.

 

[Ellard80]

Merlin good research - however

Vikings scored 29 ... gave up 24
Jaguars scored 45 gave up 42

So that 19 pt per game defensive line didn't equate in 50% of the games....

I agree that defense is a key factor in super bowl success- but the games yesterday didn't really play out this way.

 

[thirteen28]

Da'Ron Payne

Will he be there at 23?

 

[BonifayRam]

I guess the cliche is true defense wins chamionships.

I recently reviewed what the Jags have done with their defense. The DL front vs what the Rams DL front. I knew the Jags valued DL'ers but just had not put it down in my old worn down brain cell. This is their top 7 DL'ers this later half of this season:

DE- Yannick Ngakoue- 2016 3rd rd / 2018 cap cost $1.6 mil.
DT- Malik Jackson / 2016 UFA $$ / 2018 cap cost $15.5 mil.
NT- Abry Jones / 2013 UDFA / 2018 cap cost $ 3.5 mil.
DE- Calais Campbell / 2017 UFA $$ / cap cost $ 17.5 mil

DE Reserve- Dante Fowler 2015 1st rd 3rd overall / 7.5 mil.
DE Reserve- Dawuane Smoot 2017 3rd rd / $881 K
Interior DL Reserve- Marcell Darius / 2017 trade / 2011 1st rd 3rd overall / 10.2 mil.

The Jags are set to pay out over $58 mil. in cap space in their DL highest in the NFL next would be the Eagles who are in line to pay out near 50 million. The Jags will have NFL highest priced defense in 2018 @ a cap cost of $111,049,309 million. If they stay the same they will have the highest paid DL in 2019 too.

The Rams 2017 DL cost ran about $36 mil., that's including what I believe are their top 7 that included Quinn, Barwin, Donald, Brockers, Westbrooks, Walker & Fox. Rams next yr. will be in major flex due to UFA's & cut departures & the major ongoing pending Aaron Donald contract talks.

I found this interesting.....& I have no point to make.

 

[Ram65]

1. Vikings (15.8)... Beating the Saints as I type this. Probably advancing to NFC Championship game.
2. Jaguars (15.9)... Beat Bills and Steelers. Advancing to AFC Championship game.
3. Eagles (17.9)... Beat Falcons. Advancing to NFC Championship game.
4. Patriots (18.2)... Beat Titans. Advancing to AFC Championship game.
5. Falcons (19.1)... Beat Rams. Lost to Eagles.
6. Steelers (19.2)... Lost to Jaguars.
7. Saints (20.7)... Beat Panthers. Losing to Vikings as I type this.
8. Rams (20.9)... Lost to Falcons.
9. Panthers (21.1)... Lost to Saints.
10. Chiefs (21.2)... Lost to Titans.
11. Bills (21.7)... Lost to Jaguars.
12. Titans (22.9)... Beat Chiefs. Lost to Patriots.

Now, granted, postseason isn't always this obvious in terms of favoring scoring defense. Falcons of last year are good example (they were over 24ppg), but eventually their real defense showed up and cost them.

Rams need to get better on defense. IMO. Gotta get well below that 19 ppg range.

I agree the Rams defense has to get better but, so does the Rams offense. Teams don't play the same schedules which makes points allowed not a fair comparison. Also, teams don't have the uniform production over the course of a season. When a team plays another team influences the points allowed. Can you really get a determination over 2-3 more points allowed during the regular season. Thats 32 to 48 points in a season. The Rams offense not controlling the ball has an effect on the defense. Special teams also plays a role in points allowed as does those quick 6 defensive scores and turnovers.

I don't think the point difference allowed was the determining factor in the Vikings winning. It was a bad play by one player and maybe a bad defensive play call. The Vikings also had 2-1 turnover advantage. The Eagles defense stepped up on the last drive but, the Jags defense letup 42 points. Three of the four games could have gone either way.

The Rams defense has a ways to go. What I got so far from watching the playoffs. The Rams defensive backs need to play tighter coverage. Troy Hill did step up against the Falcons but can he do it next year. The Rams pass rush was inconsistent. Aaron Donald was the cause for most of the pass rush pressure but, he can't do it alone. Lack of depth hurt the Rams. When Longacre went down the Rams second wave of defensive players effectiveness was greatly diminished. When Brockers got hurt against the Falcons the Rams simple had no one to take his place. I agree the Rams need to step up the defense.

 

[Merlin]

The Rams 2017 DL cost ran about $36 mil., that's including what I believe are their top 7 that included Quinn, Barwin, Donald, Brockers, Westbrooks, Walker & Fox. Rams next yr. will be in major flex due to UFA's & cut departures & the major ongoing pending Aaron Donald contract talks.

I found this interesting.....& I have no point to make.

I do agree this is interesting Boni, in terms of considering the FA market and some of the NT types that the Rams might be able to go after. I tend to think the Rams have enough tied into the DL now that they won't want to chase a guy like Ellis or maybe even Poe (and there are others out there like run stuffers Logan and Williams). But they might surprise us and elect to plug the hole when and where they can using FA.

 

[Raptorman]

Merlin good research - however

Vikings scored 29 ... gave up 24
Jaguars scored 45 gave up 42

So that 19 pt per game defensive line didn't equate in 50% of the games....

I agree that defense is a key factor in super bowl success- but the games yesterday didn't really play out this way.

Historically, the Super Bowl winner has a top 10 defense in scoring during the regular season 90% of the time. The Super Bowl loser, about 80% of the time. So in order to make it to the big game, Think top 10 defense. To really make it, think less than 18 ppg on defense.

BTW, Since Belicheat took over, the Patriots have had a top 10 defense in all but 2 years of his tenure. And people think it's Brady.

 

[Merlin]

I don't think the point difference allowed was the determining factor in the Vikings winning. It was a bad play by one player and maybe a bad defensive play call. The Vikings also had 2-1 turnover advantage. The Eagles defense stepped up on the last drive but, the Jags defense letup 42 points. Three of the four games could have gone either way.

Of course it wasn't. But when you look at a defense what the points allowed over the course of 16 games demonstrates is its ability to play disciplined and execute their scheme over many snaps. It translates into a personality so to speak where you can moreso rely on a defense that limits less than 19 points than you can a defense that allows more than 24, with a very high level of reliability.

That translates into situations as well, when the game's on the line. Of the two defenses in that epic game we saw yesterday, the Vikes' defense had been ridiculously consistent all year, where the Saints' defense had many more lapses. In the end the defense that had one of the worst lapses in playoff history wasn't the Vikings. Big surprise, it was the Saints.

Offenses of course matter too. But what is interesting about great defenses is the way they can dumb down even the best offenses. That Vikings offense of yesteryear that shattered so many records was knocked out by a mediocre Falcons team whose defense was on a bit of a hot streak. Meanwhile the greatest defenses in history, starting with the Bears and Ravens, both won it all in spite of extremely mediocre offenses. And there are plenty of examples of great offenses losing to great defenses too, from our own Rams losing to the Cheatriots in 2001 to the Bills team that lost to Parcells/Belichicks Giants in a super bowl that was hauntingly similar to the 2001 game.

 

[Merlin]

So that 19 pt per game defensive line didn't equate in 50% of the games....

There is no perfect way to predict winners & losers in the playoffs Ellard. As I mentioned above, points allowed is a great metric to see a defense's personality in terms of how disciplined they are and how well they can execute. Basic truth of this league is that great offenses roll the weaker opponents during the regular season, but in the playoffs things tighten up quite a bit. Look at the Rams in '99/'01 playoffs, where our amazing and league-changing offense scored a grand total of 34 points against Tampa and Tennessee.

We gotta get better there is all. And if the Rams do get down to where they need to be next year it doesn't guarantee anything, but it does greatly increase our odds of advancing.

 

[jrry32]

Will he be there at 23?

At this point, there's as good of a chance that he's there as Vita Vea.

 

[BonifayRam]

I do agree this is interesting Boni, in terms of considering the FA market and some of the NT types that the Rams might be able to go after. I tend to think the Rams have enough tied into the DL now that they won't want to chase a guy like Ellis or maybe even Poe (and there are others out there like run stuffers Logan and Williams). But they might surprise us and elect to plug the hole when and where they can using FA.

Some good points made by you & @Ram65 here above.... I tend to include the Edge Rusher a lot when looking at the DL. Wade would go as you know to 4 down DL'ers in 2nd & 3rd long situations & that occurred a bunch. His ER's played a big part. The issues behind Donald (Barron/Littleton) & to his right side(Quinn) were not helpful at all for most of the season. Longacre/Donald side appeared to be a much better consistent overall combo. Real bad thing to loose Longacre.

I would prefer to go ahead & get the big contract done with AD & the surround him with a talented rookie right ER & same inside @ NT. This will help offset the cap costs of the big Donald & Brockers contracts. No ideal how it works out but I would bet a NT & a ER will be selected with the first four top draft selections. Seems to make sense. I would brink Tyrunn Walker back at that econo cap hit in 2018. That gives Wade a return of veteran Ethan Westbrooks & Omarius Bryant too to go with that talented rookie NT. That's four NT's there..where I suspect that Westbrooks will move back to back up Brockers & Donald.

I hope they don't surprise us with one of the high cost UFA NT's. I am not leaning to purchasing a UFA Nose Tackle or Edge Rusher myself. I would also rey to unload Quinn as you are awhere of. Save that available cap for the Rams UFA DB's & 2 UFA OL'ers now (Sullivan/Saffold) so you only have OL'ers Brown & Havenstein next yr at this time.

 

[Ellard80]

Historically, the Super Bowl winner has a top 10 defense in scoring during the regular season 90% of the time. The Super Bowl loser, about 80% of the time. So in order to make it to the big game, Think top 10 defense. To really make it, think less than 18 ppg on defense.

BTW, Since Belicheat took over, the Patriots have had a top 10 defense in all but 2 years of his tenure. And people think it's Brady.

The hoody is a great defensive coach no doubt...

Brady's teams have also averaged 26.5 ppg came in the playoffs however.

 

[Merlin]

I would prefer to go ahead & get the big contract done with AD & the surround him with a talented rookie right ER & same inside @ NT. This will help offset the cap costs of the big Donald & Brockers contracts. No ideal how it works out but I would bet a NT & a ER will be selected with the first four top draft selections. Seems to make sense. I would brink Tyrunn Walker back at that econo cap hit in 2018. That gives Wade a return of veteran Ethan Westbrooks & Omarius Bryant too to go with that talented rookie NT. That's four NT's there..where I suspect that Westbrooks will move back to back up Brockers & Donald.

I hope they don't surprise us with one of the high cost UFA NT's. I am not leaning to purchasing a UFA Nose Tackle or Edge Rusher myself. I would also rey to unload Quinn as you are awhere of. Save that available cap for the Rams UFA DB's & 2 UFA OL'ers now (Sullivan/Saffold) so you only have OL'ers Brown & Havenstein next yr at this time.

Yeah you and I are on the same page here. Rams need a NT as well as a high end young edge rusher and hopefully a physical guy with range for ILB. I don't know what Snead's thinking, but there will be multiple options for him with FA/draft being possible for multiple defensive needs.

Oh and if they draft a top edge guy at 23 don't forget they can move Longacre to the left side where he'll be even better. His game is well suited to that side IMO, he's tough at the point and will win more often vs RT types. Not saying we don't have to bring Barwin back, either, as I would like to see both those guys in the rotation.

 

[Ram65]

Of course it wasn't. But when you look at a defense what the points allowed over the course of 16 games demonstrates is its ability to play disciplined and execute their scheme over many snaps. It translates into a personality so to speak where you can moreso rely on a defense that limits less than 19 points than you can a defense that allows more than 24, with a very high level of reliability.

That translates into situations as well, when the game's on the line. Of the two defenses in that epic game we saw yesterday, the Vikes' defense had been ridiculously consistent all year, where the Saints' defense had many more lapses. In the end the defense that had one of the worst lapses in playoff history wasn't the Vikings. Big surprise, it was the Saints.

Offenses of course matter too. But what is interesting about great defenses is the way they can dumb down even the best offenses. That Vikings offense of yesteryear that shattered so many records was knocked out by a mediocre Falcons team whose defense was on a bit of a hot streak. Meanwhile the greatest defenses in history, starting with the Bears and Ravens, both won it all in spite of extremely mediocre offenses. And there are plenty of examples of great offenses losing to great defenses too, from our own Rams losing to the Cheatriots in 2001 to the Bills team that lost to Parcells/Belichicks Giants in a super bowl that was hauntingly similar to the 2001 game.

I get your point...but, again one guy makes a bad play. That vaulted Vikings defense didn't stop the Saints.

Rams need to get better on defense. IMO. Gotta get well below that 19ppg range.

I'm not ready to concede that the Rams have to be well below the 19 PPG mark to move further into the playoffs and or a Super Bowl. The way things are set up for the Rams is to continue to grow on all three phases of the game. This off season the Rams need to address issues on defense. I don't see McVay making the Rams a Bears or Ravens type defense.

 

[nighttrain]

Will he be there at 23?

be sweet, and maybe we can trade up a bit, good nose tackle important to our D
train