Saquon Barkley vs Todd Gurley

[NateDawg122]

I've seen quite a few draft pundits say that Barkley is a better RB than both Zeke and Gurley. I agree that he's a better prospect than Zeke, but I don't see how people can justify saying he's better than Todd.

The highest YPC Barkley ever had for a season in college was 5.9 YPC. Gurley didn't have a single season where he averaged less than 6.0... He was averaging 8.2 YPC in 2014 before the suspension, which is INSANE! Keep in mind, TG played in the SEC.

Saquon is an absolute beast but he's not bigger or faster than Todd either, and his efficiency in college wasn't as good as TG3. Gurley also has the best hurdling ability of any RB in NFL history. I just don't see how these arguments are justified. Thoughts?

 

[nighttrain]

Barkley is a great COLLEGE RB, lets see how he does at the professional level before we anoint him the next Jim Brown
train

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Put it into perspective. Barkley ran behind a much weaker line than the lines that Georgia has had. Due to sanctions PSU is just now starting to field a quality Oline.

The offense each back ran out of was different. Barkley had no lead blockers and was closer to the LOS with the RPO offense. He was usually right next to the QB. He couldn’t build as much speed hitting the hole.

Barkley has been timed at 4.3 in the 40 on several attempts. He has more lateral movement than Gurley and breaks tackles better. His thighs are massive. So he has sharp cutting abilityStrength and speed.

Gurley is more of a speed back. He evades tacklers moreso than running through them or making stop and go cuts or jump cuts.

Barkley is a more complete back. He does it all. I am happy with Gurley but he is not better than Saquon.

 

[MadGoat]

I've seen quite a few draft pundits say that Barkley is a better RB than both Zeke and Gurley. I agree that he's a better prospect than Zeke, but I don't see how people can justify saying he's better than Todd.

The highest YPC Barkley ever had for a season in college was 5.9 YPC. Gurley didn't have a single season where he averaged less than 6.0... He was averaging 8.2 YPC in 2014 before the suspension, which is INSANE! Keep in mind, TG played in the SEC.

Saquon is an absolute beast but he's not bigger or faster than Todd either, and his efficiency in college wasn't as good as TG3. Gurley also has the best hurdling ability of any RB in NFL history. I just don't see how these arguments are justified. Thoughts?

Looking at a basic stat like YPC isn't a great way to compare two players in much different situations. Gurley played against the SEC, but he was also surrounded by SEC talent as well.

Barkley played behind an offensive line that was horrible for the majority of the time he was in college and average at best his final year.

Barkley's college passing game film blows Gurley's out of the water. We've seen now that Gurley has improved there, but that wasn't a positive coming out of Georgia.

I don't know who will be the better pro at the end of their careers, but I understand why Barkley is being evaluated slightly higher coming out of school.

 

[NateDawg122]

Looking at a basic stat like YPC isn't a great way to compare two players in much different situations. Gurley played against the SEC, but he was also surrounded by SEC talent as well.

Barkley played behind an offensive line that was horrible for the majority of the time he was in college and average at best his final year.

Barkley's college passing game film blows Gurley's out of the water. We've seen now that Gurley has improved there, but that wasn't a positive coming out of Georgia.

I don't know who will be the better pro at the end of their careers, but I understand why Barkley is being evaluated slightly higher coming out of school.

You might want to watch Gurley's film from 2013 before you say Barkley "blows him out of the water" as a receiver. Just because the coaches failed to use Gurley enough in the passing game doesn't mean he wasn't good at it.

In fact, Todd's 2013 season beats any Barkley had as a receiver, and Gurley missed games and played at less than 100% in others.

 

[Rambitious1]

Barkley is a great COLLEGE RB, lets see how he does at the professional level before we anoint him the next Jim Brown
train

 

[NateDawg122]

Put it into perspective. Barkley ran behind a much weaker line than the lines that Georgia has had. Due to sanctions PSU is just now starting to field a quality Oline.

The offense each back ran out of was different. Barkley had no lead blockers and was closer to the LOS with the RPO offense. He was usually right next to the QB. He couldn’t build as much speed hitting the hole.

Barkley has been timed at 4.3 in the 40 on several attempts. He has more lateral movement than Gurley and breaks tackles better. His thighs are massive. So he has sharp cutting abilityStrength and speed.

Gurley is more of a speed back. He evades tacklers moreso than running through them or making stop and go cuts or jump cuts.

Barkley is a more complete back. He does it all. I am happy with Gurley but he is not better than Saquon.

Have you actually looked at the facts on all this? Let's look at some of the facts from Gurley's best college year (2014) and Barkley's best (2017). I will also preface this by saying the 2014 UGA offensive line was average at best. David Andrews was a great center but that's where the talent ended:

Team passing yards:
Georgia - 199.9 YPG
Penn State - 290.2 YPG

Team passing TDs:
Georgia - 1.8 per game
Penn State - 2.5 per game

Starting QBs:
Hutson Mason (UGA): 2168 pass. yards, 3 rushing yards, 24 Total TDs, 4 Int.
Trace McSorley (PSU): 3570 pass. yards, 491 rushing yards, 39 Total TDs, 10 Int.

Best WR:
Chris Conley (UGA): 36 receptions, 657 yards, 8 TDs.
Daeshon Hamilton (PSU): 53 receptions, 857 yards, 9 TDs.

So tell me again, who had the better supporting cast?

 

[jrry32]

Barkley's college passing game film blows Gurley's out of the water. We've seen now that Gurley has improved there, but that wasn't a positive coming out of Georgia.

Gurley has always been a very good receiving HB. He had 37 receptions for 441 receiving yards and 6 receiving TDs as a sophomore. That's why it was so weird that Fisher's bumbling boobs that he called OCs never used Gurley in the passing game.

Put it into perspective. Barkley ran behind a much weaker line than the lines that Georgia has had. Due to sanctions PSU is just now starting to field a quality Oline.

The offense each back ran out of was different. Barkley had no lead blockers and was closer to the LOS with the RPO offense. He was usually right next to the QB. He couldn’t build as much speed hitting the hole.

Barkley has been timed at 4.3 in the 40 on several attempts. He has more lateral movement than Gurley and breaks tackles better. His thighs are massive. So he has sharp cutting abilityStrength and speed.

Gurley is more of a speed back. He evades tacklers moreso than running through them or making stop and go cuts or jump cuts.

Barkley is a more complete back. He does it all. I am happy with Gurley but he is not better than Saquon.

I disagree. Saquon might grow to be a better HB than Gurley, as he has LaDainian Tomlinson-like potential, but he is not a better HB right now. Barkley is certainly talented, but Gurley is too. I'm happy with our guy. He was the NFL's best HB this year.

 

[MadGoat]

Gurley has always been a very good receiving HB. He had 37 receptions for 441 receiving yards and 6 receiving TDs as a sophomore. That's why it was so weird that Fisher's bumbling boobs that he called OCs never used Gurley in the passing game.



I disagree. Saquon might grow to be a better HB than Gurley, as he has LaDainian Tomlinson-like potential, but he is not a better HB right now. Barkley is certainly talented, but Gurley is too. I'm happy with our guy. He was the NFL's best HB this year.

I don't think anyone is talking about Barkley vs Gurley as a 3rd year pro. This is about Barkley and Gurley coming out of college.

 

[I like Rams]

I didnt watch much of Sasquan, but there was one game they played at the Beginning of the season where he broke free down the field. Dude looked like he was going full speed when someone caught up to him and he hit a whole other gear and blew past him. Both me and my father both said "holy shit" at the exact same time. So, other than him being stupid fast, i dont know much about him.

 

[NateDawg122]

I don't think anyone is talking about Barkley vs Gurley as a 3rd year pro. This is about Barkley and Gurley coming out of college.

2014 TG3 was better than Barkley, and it really isn't that close. Gurley destroyed what ended up being the #1 defense in the country (Clemson) for 15 carries, 198 rush yards, 100 kickoff return yards, and 4 TDs.

That season, Gurley averaged 161 YPG, and one of those games he only had 6 carries (for 73 yards...). Barkley averaged 146 YPG this past year, just for reference.

 

[MadGoat]

You might want to watch Gurley's film from 2013 before you say Barkley "blows him out of the water" as a receiver. Just because the coaches failed to use Gurley enough in the passing game doesn't mean he wasn't good at it.

In fact, Todd's 2013 season beats any Barkley had as a receiver, and Gurley missed games and played at less than 100% in others.

How is Gurley's 2013 receiving better than Barkley's 2017:

Gurley - 37/441/6
Barkley - 54/632/3

Unless you are playing fantasy football, Barkley was a much more productive receiver in his best year. The passing game is also more than just catching the ball. Barkley is a plus pass blocker, Gurley was not. he's still not great at it, but he's gotten better.

The other difference is how both players were used in the passing game. Gurley looked like a great running back catching the ball in college. Maybe Georgia didn't need to use him as a receiver, but that is an area that Barkley stands out. Penn State had no problem lining him up as a receiver and letting him run a full route tree. He was a match-up nightmare.

 

[MadGoat]

2014 TG3 was better than Barkley, and it really isn't that close. Gurley destroyed what ended up being the #1 defense in the country (Clemson) for 15 carries, 198 rush yards, 100 kickoff return yards, and 4 TDs.

That season, Gurley averaged 161 YPG, and one of those games he only had 6 carries (for 73 yards...). Barkley averaged 146 YPG this past year, just for reference.

Gurley had better stats. Barkley is the more well rounded back.

 

[NateDawg122]

How is Gurley's 2013 receiving better than Barkley's 2017:

Gurley - 37/441/6
Barkley - 54/632/3

Unless you are playing fantasy football, Barkley was a much more productive receiver in his best year. The passing game is also more than just catching the ball. Barkley is a plus pass blocker, Gurley was not. he's still not great at it, but he's gotten better.

The other difference is how both players were used in the passing game. Gurley looked like a great running back catching the ball in college. Maybe Georgia didn't need to use him as a receiver, but that is an area that Barkley stands out. Penn State had no problem lining him up as a receiver and letting him run a full route tree. He was a match-up nightmare.

Ummm, it's called PER GAME AVERAGES. Gurley only played in 10 games in 2013 due to a sprained ankle sustained in the 2nd Quarter of the LSU game. He came back early at about 80% and never had time to heal before the season ended. Let's take a look at the stats:

Saquon: 48.62 YPG, 11.7 YPR, 3 TDs.
Gurley: 44.1 YPG, 11.9 YPR, 6 TDs.

The only reason Saquon had more YPG was because Todd was playing at way less than 100% and missed time in other games because of injury. Like I said, Gurley's efficiency was better than Barkley's.

 

[NateDawg122]

Gurley had better stats. Barkley is the more well rounded back.

Then please explain how Saquon was able to be shut down MULTIPLE times this year? Indiana, Ohio State, Northwestern, and Rutgers all shut Barkley down. And that was just in 2017.

I watched every single game of Gurley's collegiate career and can't remember a single time a team shut him down. The South Carolina game in Todd's freshman year is the only time you could argue a team accomplished that, and that defense was loaded!

Todd never had a single game in college where he averaged less than 3.0 YPC. Barkley had FIVE games where he was held under that average.

 

[MadGoat]

Then please explain how Saquon was able to be shut down MULTIPLE times this year? Indiana, Ohio State, Northwestern, and Rutgers all shut Barkley down. And that was just in 2017.

I watched every single game of Gurley's collegiate career and can't remember a single time a team shut him down. The South Carolina game in Todd's freshman year is the only time you could argue a team accomplished that, and that defense was loaded!

I'm not sure how you get "shut down" as a pass blocker. I'll go back to my original statement. Gurley had better stats. Barkley is the more well rounded back. It's going to show in his pre-draft evaluations vs Gurley's.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Gurley fan, but if the two of them were coming out of college at the same time, I'm taking Barkley. I certainly wouldn't replace the guy the Rams have now with any unproven rookie.

 

[NateDawg122]

I'm not sure how you get "shut down" as a pass blocker. I'll go back to my original statement. Gurley had better stats. Barkley is the more well rounded back. It's going to show in his pre-draft evaluations vs Gurley's.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Gurley fan, but if the two of them were coming out of college at the same time, I'm taking Barkley. I certainly wouldn't replace the guy the Rams have now with any unproven rookie.

How is Barkley more well-rounded?! Gurley ran a 4.3 in college, has a faster 100M time than Barkley, has a faster 100M Hurdle time than Barkley, and he's bigger! Todd is just as good as a receiver and he's a better runner. All those were true in college, just as they are now.

 

[MadGoat]

How is Barkley more well-rounded?! Gurley ran a 4.3 in college, has a faster 100M time than Barkley, has a faster 100M Hurdle time than Barkley, and he's bigger! Todd is just as good as a receiver and he's a better runner. All those were true in college, just as they are now.

Passsssss blooooockinnnngggg.

 

[NateDawg122]

Passsssss blooooockinnnngggg.

Barkley is more polished as a pass blocker than TG was coming out of college, but that is literally the ONLY thing he can say he did better than Todd (and Gurley was no slouch at it). That doesn't make him more well-rounded. Gurley is easily the better runner of the two and he's just as good, if not better, as a receiver.

Even so, Dion Lewis is more well-rounded than Adrian Peterson, but that doesn't mean he's better.

 

[MadGoat]

Barkley is more polished as a pass blocker than TG was coming out of college, but that is literally the ONLY thing he can say he did better than Todd (and Gurley was no slouch at it). That doesn't make him more well-rounded. Gurley is easily the better runner of the two and he's just as good, if not better, as a receiver.

Even so, Dion Lewis is more well-rounded than Adrian Peterson, but that doesn't mean he's better.

That is a horrible analogy. The gap between AP and Lewis as a runner is massive.

You are definitely in the minority in thinking Gurley was a better receiver (except maybe on a Rams fan site).

From my perspective Gurley wins the running aspect, but Barkley is close. Barkley is the more dynamic receiver and I was not nearly as impressed with Gurley's college receiving ability as you are. Barkley is an NFL ready pass blocker. Gurley was not. That's how I easily come to the conclusion that Barkley is more well-rounded and a better NFL prospect entering the draft.