Sams vs Westbrooks?

[Memphis Ram]

While I could certainly see a trade - I don't see Sims fighting for a roster spot at all - I have him on the 53 in ink.

Not me. For all the love he gets, the guy still has had only 5 sacks in 4 NFL seasons.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Sam kinda seems like one of those players that's talents aren't geared for combines and such. He does however look to play hard and with heart which often times makes for a better player.

 

[DaveFan'51]

IMHO Sims is our #7 and Carrington is our #8 D-Linemen, Sam and Westbrooks are fighting for #9, I don't see the Rams keeping 10 with our other needs. So, to me, it comes down to which one do you think will make it to the PS with-out getting picked-up by another Team!? To me the answer is Sam, I don't believe other Teams will want the distraction.

 

[blue4]

I thought they both played well, and looked promising. But it's one preseason game, where the coach threw a flag to help out the refs. At this point, they both need to play a whole lot better to make Sims or Carrington nervous. Of the two, I actually thought Westbrooks played better, although that is just my overall impression. I was not able to watch quite a lot of the game so I freely admit I may have missed some of Sam's best work. And Conrath being 1st team ST's isn't exactly a hallmark of a player about to be cut. It's going to be an impossible to predict photo finish between these three I think.

 

[CoachO]

IMHO Sims is our #7 and Carrington is our #8 D-Linemen, Sam and Westbrooks are fighting for #9, I don't see the Rams keeping 10 with our other needs. So, to me, it comes down to which one do you think will make it to the PS with-out getting picked-up by another Team!? To me the answer is Sam, I don't believe other Teams will want the distraction.

To me, its about which one will help the team, not about who they think is most likely to make it thru the PS. IMO, you don't make roster decisions, meaning who makes the 53 man roster based on who you think will or won't make it to the PS. The only possible exception to that is a young QB, that they want to protect.

 

[DaveFan'51]

To me, its about which one will help the team, not about who they think is most likely to make it thru the PS. IMO, you don't make roster decisions, meaning who makes the 53 man roster based on who you think will or won't make it to the PS. The only possible exception to that is a young QB, that they want to protect.

My position on the subject is based on IF Sam and Westbrooks are deemed as Equal, when it comes time to cut one or the other, then I believe it becomes a factor.

 

[12intheBox]

To me, its about which one will help the team, not about who they think is most likely to make it thru the PS. IMO, you don't make roster decisions, meaning who makes the 53 man roster based on who you think will or won't make it to the PS. The only possible exception to that is a young QB, that they want to protect.

Why not? Especially if the 46 man active roster is going to be more set than in years past - protect your best prospects - right?

 

[CoachO]

My position on the subject is based on IF Sam and Westbrooks are deemed as Equal, when it comes time to cut one or the other, then I believe it becomes a factor.

Well, normally I would agree with that, but in this case, not so much. As I stated I mentioned earlier in this thread, all things being equal, Sam has the tie-breaker in his favor. He is a HIGH profile draft pick, and regardless that people might not agree with this, its a fact that shouldn't be discounted.

 

[CoachO]

Why not? Especially if the 46 man active roster is going to be more set than in years past - protect your best prospects - right?

Fair enough,, I guess we just disagree on who those guys are. the thing is, neither of us get a vote, so i guess we just have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

[Debacled]

With all due respect, who do you think lines up as the "wedge" blockers on the KO Return teams? Do you think its all DBs or LBs on the punt return team at the LOS?
Same with the coverage units. Eugene Sims has made a career being a core ST performer on this team. At what point do you look to replace him with a younger version?

There is already plenty of opportunity being afforded Sam on ST, and that's not likely to change.

As far as Westbroks fitting the mold of Hayes, Sam is similar to Robert Quinn coming out of UNC. I am in no way comparing Sam's ability to Quinn's, its no different than trying to compare Westbrooks to Hayes. You are comparing apples to oranges, Sam is NOT going to be asked to slide inside, so to try to say that somehow makes Westbrooks better in that role, is irrelevant.

They BOTH have 4 weeks to prove their worth. All things being equal, Sam has the advantage.... he was a HIGH PROFILE draft pick, and regardless how one feels about that, its fact. As good as this organization has looked for making this selection, they stand to garner some backlash if they release him. Not saying it won't happen, but IMO, they will give him EVERY opportunity to make this team. Unless he implodes, or shows he just cannot play at this level (neither of which I see happening), they will find a place for him.

Sims did NOT make this team based off his play on ST. Did he play on ST? Yeah sure, but is that why he was on the team? No. I don't have the numbers for 2011 his rookie year, but in 2012 he got in on 399 defensive snaps compared to 56 special teams and last year was in on 363 defensive snaps to 85 special teams. Sims carved his niche out of being a rotational lineman, not a core ST player.

ST ability will NOT be the deciding factor on who makes the team and who does not.
All I was saying is that Westbrooks offers more versatility on the defensive line than Sam currently doesl. Personally I view the D-line as somewhat of a unique position on the team. With the amount of rotating that they do I think that it is important every linemen they keep on the roster should have the ability, and the skill in the coaches eyes, to rotate into the game. They didn't bring these guys in to replace guys like Sims or Hayes, they brought them in to compete for their own roster spots. I want to see the better player make the team if it comes down between the two of them, and by better I mean what they bring to their respective unit (the d-line). I don't want to see players on the d-line kept on the roster for the ST play and their ST play alone.


And that last statement is exactly what Tony Dungy was getting at when he said he would not have drafted Sam. The man is virtually uncuttable because of the backlash and assumptions that will be whipped out the minute he hits waivers.

 

[12intheBox]

Not me. For all the love he gets, the guy still has had only 5 sacks in 4 NFL seasons.

And has been stout against the run, and played on special teams.

The guy is in a rotation w Quinn - it's not like he sees the field a lot in the 'pin your ears back' situations.

I'm not advising him to make pro bowl plans, and if we get value (and I do like your linebacker idea) I'm not opposed to dealing him - but he is a proven Sunday player - unlike Sam and Westbrooks.

 

[12intheBox]

Fair enough,, I guess we just disagree on who those guys are. the thing is, neither of us get a vote, so i guess we just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Just because I haven't gotten a vote yet doesn't mean I'll never get one. Ok, that's probably what it means.

Les, I'm always just a phone call away.

 

[paceram]

Well, normally I would agree with that, but in this case, not so much. As I stated I mentioned earlier in this thread, all things being equal, Sam has the tie-breaker in his favor. He is a HIGH profile draft pick, and regardless that people might not agree with this, its a fact that shouldn't be discounted.

While I agree with you that Sam probably has the tiebreaker I am hoping somehow they both make the final roster (But, right now I am guessing that is a real Long-Shot but I believe anything can happen in the next few weeks!)!

 

[CGI_Ram]

One big wildcard we've hardly spoken about; is Westbrooks head on straight?

That's a factor in this decision too.

 

[12intheBox]

One big wildcard we've hardly spoken about; is Westbrooks head on straight?

That's a factor in this decision too.

I think that is a question they ask of every player on the team. At least I hope they do.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Why not? Especially if the 46 man active roster is going to be more set than in years past - protect your best prospects - right?

Is he really a good prospect? Even Sam I don't know about. It's really unlikely for late rounders to pan out into rotational/depth guys, let alone quality impact players. I think Westbrooks would be fighting for a roster spot most years, and would probably lose it in a year or two when we get some draft pick with more talent. Sam is probably in the same boat too. I mean how many late rounders or UDFA have we grabbed and everyone is wowed by them in camp and preseason against lesser competition only to see them never make the 46, and get replaced the next year, if they make the 53 even.

 

[Memphis Ram]

And has been stout against the run, and played on special teams.

The guy is in a rotation w Quinn - it's not like he sees the field a lot in the 'pin your ears back' situations.

I'm not advising him to make pro bowl plans, and if we get value (and I do like your linebacker idea) I'm not opposed to dealing him - but he is a proven Sunday player - unlike Sam and Westbrooks.

Stout against the run? Haven't seen it. Especially this past pre-season game. How about solid at best? And one thing he has proven on Sundays is he's not a pass rusher. Special teams? Let's see what happens when (and if) Sam and Westbrooks get their chances. There's still time left for them. In fact, I'd be interested to see if Westbrooks gets some special teams reps this week.

We will have to agree to disagree. Sure, the Rams don't go by our opinions. But, IMO, it makes little sense for Sims to be considered a lock to make this roster if he's not deemed significantly better than Sam AND Westbrooks (not just one).

 

[blue4]

Stout against the run? Haven't seen it. Especially this past pre-season game. How about solid at best? And one thing he has proven on Sundays is he's not a pass rusher. Special teams? Let's see what happens when (and if) Sam and Westbrooks get their chances. There's still time left for them. In fact, I'd be interested to see if Westbrooks gets some special teams reps this week.

We will have to agree to disagree. Sure, the Rams don't go by our opinions. But, IMO, it makes little sense for Sims to be considered a lock to make this roster if he's not deemed significantly better than Sam AND Westbrooks (not just one).

I believe that he is deemed significantly better than Sam and Westbrooks. The man has played almost 800 snaps in two years. To believe that the coaches would dump him to keep two camp players who flash a play or two in against the 3rd stringers isn't really being realistic IMO. Why would he play so much if he sucks?

 

[Akrasian]

Stout against the run? Haven't seen it. Especially this past pre-season game. How about solid at best? And one thing he has proven on Sundays is he's not a pass rusher. Special teams? Let's see what happens when (and if) Sam and Westbrooks get their chances. There's still time left for them. In fact, I'd be interested to see if Westbrooks gets some special teams reps this week.

We will have to agree to disagree. Sure, the Rams don't go by our opinions. But, IMO, it makes little sense for Sims to be considered a lock to make this roster if he's not deemed significantly better than Sam AND Westbrooks (not just one).

IMO Sims has been around long enough he is what he is. A useful rotation player for an excellent DL. Nowhere near good enough to start on the Rams' line - possibly good enough to start for a poor line, and good enough to contribute on any 4-3 DL at least: AND good enough to be useful to the Rams this season. No reason to get rid of him on his own merits. However, if there are significantly younger and cheaper players with more upside and who aren't going to be too big a drop off this year, AND the Rams can get something they need or a decent pick for him, it might make sense to trade him and keep the younger player.

That said - I doubt he gets traded. The Rams love having that DL depth and are trying to win this year. The greatest chance of his being traded is if the Rams have an injury at another position, and get offered a player they want to play there in exchange for Sims.

 

[SierraRam]

If it does come down to Sams vs Westbrooks who wins the roster spot?

Whomever doesn't make our DL will be immediately snatched up! I guarantee every team is closely watching our roster moves...

My answer: Sam