Salary Cap numbers

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bwdenverram

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So I was curious as to why we have such limited CAP against other teams. I mean even the freaking patriots have like $55M. Based on this site (I don't get the TEAM CAP #??) it made me start to question if Demoff is as good with the CAP as I thought. I mean if Tru and TA are both larger hits then Tom Brady something is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like our players but Barron is an $11M hit, Brockers is and $11M hit and Quinn is a $10.5M hit. Sure hope he comes back to form or that's a big chunk for him too.
I'm not a CAP expert but seems these could of been broken out a little better but I didn't look at each year to compare in the future. I don't even get how the Browns have $100M. Their current totals are already like $100M and if the cap is about $167M how does that add up? Someone school me please.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/los-angeles-rams/
 

OldSchool

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So I was curious as to why we have such limited CAP against other teams. I mean even the freaking patriots have like $55M. Based on this site (I don't get the TEAM CAP #??) it made me start to question if Demoff is as good with the CAP as I thought. I mean if Tru and TA are both larger hits then Tom Brady something is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like our players but Barron is an $11M hit, Brockers is and $11M hit and Quinn is a $10.5M hit. Sure hope he comes back to form or that's a big chunk for him too.
I'm not a CAP expert but seems these could of been broken out a little better but I didn't look at each year to compare in the future. I don't even get how the Browns have $100M. Their current totals are already like $100M and if the cap is about $167M how does that add up? Someone school me please.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/los-angeles-rams/
The thing you're ignoring is the talent. Teams like SF and Cleveland don't have players worth paying. Both teams would kill to have Barron, Quinn and Brockers on their roster. You're barking up the wrong tree at Demoff especially when you look at how the contracts are structured.

Now if we aren't getting an on field return for that talent you only have to look to our former coach for the reasons.
 

bwdenverram

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The thing you're ignoring is the talent. Teams like SF and Cleveland don't have players worth paying. Both teams would kill to have Barron, Quinn and Brockers on their roster. You're barking up the wrong tree at Demoff especially when you look at how the contracts are structured.

Now if we aren't getting an on field return for that talent you only have to look to our former coach for the reasons.

So you think that Brockers (who I do like) is an $11M a year guy? How many DT's do you know are getting that?
And think about this, how much is AD going to get ? He's the best DT in the league. He may be a $15-17M a year guy for all we know.
Plus, I'm not bashing Demoff but if you compare him to other GM's or guys in charge of $$ of well run teams (I hate to say the Patriots again) how come they always have CAP room? It's taking a minute to take off the I'm a ram fan hat and be objective is all I'm doing.
I'm a huge TA and TRU fan but no way they are worth the money they are getting paid right now. Waiting two years in a row to tag TRU was just a bad plan. Now we are in a position I don't think we should be in.
 

LACHAMP46

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So I was curious as to why we have such limited CAP against other teams. I mean even the freaking patriots have like $55M. Based on this site (I don't get the TEAM CAP #??) it made me start to question if Demoff is as good with the CAP as I thought.
Be careful, Kevin D. is always watching. LOLOLOL!

This cap talk always reminds me of my internet friend...Ram fan...Frank Dubozy...or Dubs...I really learned a lot from him...and it taught me to really respect you guys out here...talented individual that Dubs:blah:....

One thing the Rams always have practiced under Kev/Snead/Fish...is they rarely if ever backload contracts...it makes it easier to move money around is how I remember Frank explaining it....Remember the way Long would always restructure his contract. Convert some into a signing bonus and lower the overall cap number. It also would rarely leave an expiring deal with a large...dead money hit if we decided to move on from a player a year or 2 early. Those name...Barron, Brockers and Quinn...I believe we could really release Quinn and save quite a bit of cap space. Brockers just signed his deal ( a very fair & great deal I might add if you're watching Kev) and would have a large dead money hit if he was released. Barron's deal was just negotiated too, and it would also leave a large dead money hit if he was released. So....out of those 3, Barron & Brockers could be restructured...effectively turning salary into a signing bonus...lowering the cap number...Quinn could be released, with little dead money, if any, left on the books. Hope that helps. Front loads contracts...Pay as we go, as Dubs would say...
Sure there are other cap-ologists out there...waiting for you guys to come forward:yess:
 

OldSchool

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So you think that Brockers (who I do like) is an $11M a year guy? How many DT's do you know are getting that?
And think about this, how much is AD going to get ? He's the best DT in the league. He may be a $15-17M a year guy for all we know.
Plus, I'm not bashing Demoff but if you compare him to other GM's or guys in charge of $$ of well run teams (I hate to say the Patriots again) how come they always have CAP room? It's taking a minute to take off the I'm a ram fan hat and be objective is all I'm doing.
I'm a huge TA and TRU fan but no way they are worth the money they are getting paid right now. Waiting two years in a row to tag TRU was just a bad plan. Now we are in a position I don't think we should be in.
Demoff is no the GM!

Let's play a little game here. Fisher is in total control of the roster and Demoff is in charge of the overall business side of the team. So Fisher gets together with Demoff and tells Kevin we need to retain Brockers (insert any of the players you're blaming KD for resigning) and its vital to the team. Demoff not being the football guy just the business guy asks Fisher for a ball park figure. KD then works out a deal to fit the player in the cap. And there you have a likely sequence of events to explain what went down with each of those players.

One thing KD never gets credit for and people always want to redo is he front loads the deals so the last two or three years have no guaranteed money and are easy to get out of if Fisher was wrong on the player. KD is great at the contract part of his job IMO you're blaming the wrong guy for your feelings about contracts.
 

Ram65

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So I was curious as to why we have such limited CAP against other teams. I mean even the freaking patriots have like $55M. Based on this site (I don't get the TEAM CAP #??) it made me start to question if Demoff is as good with the CAP as I thought. I mean if Tru and TA are both larger hits then Tom Brady something is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like our players but Barron is an $11M hit, Brockers is and $11M hit and Quinn is a $10.5M hit. Sure hope he comes back to form or that's a big chunk for him too.
I'm not a CAP expert but seems these could of been broken out a little better but I didn't look at each year to compare in the future. I don't even get how the Browns have $100M. Their current totals are already like $100M and if the cap is about $167M how does that add up? Someone school me please.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/los-angeles-rams/

On the Patsies
1.They get winners discount on players willing to take less to win before they retire. Long list of players like Chris Long.

2.This helps them get rid of players before their second contract like last year they trade a very productive player in Jamie Collings to Cleveland. He could have been their best defensive player wanting Von Miller money. Saver money and get a draft pick a third round comp pick.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ade-jamie-collins-cleveland-browns-draft-pick

3.They have a system that takes smarts to learn but, they find smart players to come in as a plug and play replacements.

4. I hate them but Belicheat is smart about x's and o's and cheating. That's enough for now.

On Demoff and the Rams.
1. Others have posted how he does contracts with front loaded money and little dead money after year two.

2. Rams have had lot of number 1 picks. They cost more on the original contract and when that contract is up you have to make decisions. That falls on Fisher. In hind site Rams should have kept Jenkins over Johnson. Barron played well in 2015 so they paid him what he would have gotten on the open market, maybe less. Look at the money coming this week to the fee agents. Rams may have given Tavon Austin a little to much but he should play into his cap numbers as free.

3.Rams and Fisher were pressed to win therefore they had to pay players to have a chance.

The Future
I see a little better organizational management with McVay. Hopefully, similar to the Patsies. The Rams can plan 1-2-3 steps ahead now that they have the coaches in place . The key is hitting on draft picks, UDFA and being smart in free agency. , Demoff and the cap hasn't killed the Rams. It's poor free agent decisions, some poor draft picks along with bad coaching.
 
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Jorgeh0605

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Lets not overlook that our cap looks bad now mainly because of Tru's tag number. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Demoff since that number is generated by the league.
 

bwdenverram

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Demoff is no the GM!

Let's play a little game here. Fisher is in total control of the roster and Demoff is in charge of the overall business side of the team. So Fisher gets together with Demoff and tells Kevin we need to retain Brockers (insert any of the players you're blaming KD for resigning) and its vital to the team. Demoff not being the football guy just the business guy asks Fisher for a ball park figure. KD then works out a deal to fit the player in the cap. And there you have a likely sequence of events to explain what went down with each of those players.

One thing KD never gets credit for and people always want to redo is he front loads the deals so the last two or three years have no guaranteed money and are easy to get out of if Fisher was wrong on the player. KD is great at the contract part of his job IMO you're blaming the wrong guy for your feelings about contracts.

I'd ask you do me favor please. Don't put words in my mouth, ok? First I said GM or guys in charge of $$ (which Kevin is). I didn't say he IS the GM. I'm aware of who the GM is.
Secondly, I'm not BLAMING him for signing anyone. I asked a question about total CAP hit. So please, take a step back from attacking me...I forgot he likes to front load contracts and I stated I didn't look at the other years.. OK..?
That all said it still doesn't explain the issue that we never seem to have much CAP space. Great, give him credit for front loading contracts. But if every contract is front loaded it never ends then does it? Because every year or two new contracts are done with FA's, signing current players to new contract, etc. If you front load everything it's just a repeated pattern. I'm not saying I get it all, that's why I asked. But seems to me at some point unless we do something different we'll never have that much CAP space to do much ? Especially if we keep making TA and TRU like decisions. Not saying I'm right, just my opinion.
Again, my whole point or question really was how do teams like the Patriots (which makes me sick to say is the best run franchise in the league) continues to have cap space, plenty of draft picks and just wins for the last two decades.
That's not pointing at Demoff but being in his position it doesn't make you wonder, just a little?
 

bwdenverram

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Lets not overlook that our cap looks bad now mainly because of Tru's tag number. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Demoff since that number is generated by the league.

That's a fair statement. But even a realistic contract for true is probably $10-12M. So it does save a bit.
Honestly, I love TA but $14M is way too much for him. If he was Brown or Green or something I get it.
 

Jorgeh0605

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That's a fair statement. But even a realistic contract for true is probably $10-12M. So it does save a bit.
Honestly, I love TA but $14M is way too much for him. If he was Brown or Green or something I get it.
And TA is $8M next year with no dead money if we want to move away from him. Just looking at cap numbers for this year isn't indicative of bad cap management or even bad contracts. Even Brockers and Quinn can be cast off next year with little dead money if need be.
 

OldSchool

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I'd ask you do me favor please. Don't put words in my mouth, ok? First I said GM or guys in charge of $$ (which Kevin is). I didn't say he IS the GM. I'm aware of who the GM is.
Secondly, I'm not BLAMING him for signing anyone. I asked a question about total CAP hit. So please, take a step back from attacking me...I forgot he likes to front load contracts and I stated I didn't look at the other years.. OK..?
That all said it still doesn't explain the issue that we never seem to have much CAP space. Great, give him credit for front loading contracts. But if every contract is front loaded it never ends then does it? Because every year or two new contracts are done with FA's, signing current players to new contract, etc. If you front load everything it's just a repeated pattern. I'm not saying I get it all, that's why I asked. But seems to me at some point unless we do something different we'll never have that much CAP space to do much ? Especially if we keep making TA and TRU like decisions. Not saying I'm right, just my opinion.
Again, my whole point or question really was how do teams like the Patriots (which makes me sick to say is the best run franchise in the league) continues to have cap space, plenty of draft picks and just wins for the last two decades.
That's not pointing at Demoff but being in his position it doesn't make you wonder, just a little?
It doesn't make me wonder at all you just have to follow what the Patriots do. Also lets take a look at the draft and player retention. The patriots are always drafting at the end of the first round where the Rams have drafted at the top of the first. The difference in what the 5th pick of the first and the 30th pick of the first gets is substantial. That affects future deals. Also remember the Patriots trade out of the first a lot saving themselves even more money on current and future contracts. If we keep drafting higher in the first round our rookie contracts end up eating more cap. Then like I said Fisher tended to overpay guys on their second contract and also over paid those free agents he signed.

You want to know why the Patriots do better than us just look back to what I said and compare the way we see Fisher ran things and they way Belicheat runs his team. The difference is very apparent.
I was not attacking you, you asked a question I answered it. You said you didn't look fully at the contracts so I explained how things worked. Sorry that offended you.
 

OldSchool

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That's a fair statement. But even a realistic contract for true is probably $10-12M. So it does save a bit.
Honestly, I love TA but $14M is way too much for him. If he was Brown or Green or something I get it.
There is nothing realistic about the contracts going out this off season. There's way too much cap space open for too many teams. The cba mandates teams spend a minimum percentage of the cap so players are going to get way over paid.
 

Merlin

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Patriots are an outlier.

The Rams' decision last year to sign Tavon to starting wideout money without the production, leaving them still needing another wideout, is really the difference on the Rams' cap number. That plus Tru, who might come off the books if they get a trade done.

Rams have managed the cap just fine. You have to separate the way the cap is managed and the decision making process in which players they sign. The latter is on the GM side of the fence.
 

Snaz

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If you back load a contract you get good cheap playing years from a player so that when its time to cut them or renegotiate its later and more comes off the cap. Front loading the contract is basically signing a player for a short term and no long term investment.
 

Craig412

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So I was curious as to why we have such limited CAP against other teams. I mean even the freaking patriots have like $55M. Based on this site (I don't get the TEAM CAP #??) it made me start to question if Demoff is as good with the CAP as I thought. I mean if Tru and TA are both larger hits then Tom Brady something is wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like our players but Barron is an $11M hit, Brockers is and $11M hit and Quinn is a $10.5M hit. Sure hope he comes back to form or that's a big chunk for him too.
I'm not a CAP expert but seems these could of been broken out a little better but I didn't look at each year to compare in the future. I don't even get how the Browns have $100M. Their current totals are already like $100M and if the cap is about $167M how does that add up? Someone school me please.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/los-angeles-rams/

While I post rarely and I don't consider myself an expert on the topic I will take a shot at answering your question regarding salary cap space.

It is my opinion that Demoff does an amazing job with managing the Rams cap flexibility. I use the word flexibility, because while we may not have much in the way of cap space currently we have the ability to sign any player we want at this point.

Someone stated that the Rams don't backload many of their contracts and that is 100% true. They instead generally opt for a large roster bonus in the early portion of the contracts. That roster bonus unlike a signing bonus isn't prorated over the entire length of the contract (limited to 5 years proration). For example, last year our big signings both in the offseason and in season were Barron, Brockers, and Austin. All three got relatively small signing bonuses so that money isn't pushed against future salary cap figures. Barron is due $5 million in roster bonus this year, Brocker's roster bonus is $9 million, and Austin's roster bonus is $11,477,116. The best part about this structure is that if the Rams wanted to spend a ton on free agents they could convert one or even all of those roster bonuses to signing bonuses allowing them to be prorated over the life of the contract. The player receives the money now, so it doesn't bother them at all, and the team gets the cap room they need.

Just to further my example if we restructure Brocker's bonus to a signing bonus our current $19 million in cap space increases to $25 million. Move Austin's as well and we have $34 million, throw in Barron's and we are at $38 million.

Quinn has a bonus of nearly $4 million this year as well, but I wouldn't want to move any of his money to future cap hits considering his injury history causing him to create more dead space to cut him in the future.

If we want to create even more space, a long term deal for Ogletree could create quite a bit by moving most of the money in the deal to next years cap via these same roster bonuses. Obviously a long term deal for Tru would accomplish a cap savings as well.

Hopefully this helps. I remember John Elway being asked about the salary cap ramifications of getting Manning several years back and he basically said that if they want any player at all they can figure out a way to get them on the team. Which is true to a certain extent although if you keep kicking the money down the road eventually you will be the cowboys having to cut probowler Demarcus Ware just to get under.
 

dieterbrock

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Lets not overlook that our cap looks bad now mainly because of Tru's tag number. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Demoff since that number is generated by the league.
Ultimately, who's decision was it to tag him? Snead? Group conscience? Not being sarcastic here as I really don't know
 

Jorgeh0605

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Ultimately, who's decision was it to tag him? Snead? Group conscience? Not being sarcastic here as I really don't know
I think the answer is more Snead and McVay. And from the rumors of trading him,it is sounding more like Snead to be honest. My guess is Demoff is really only consulted to help map out what we could afford if we tagged him vs if we didn't. The decision in an org should lie with either the HC or GM.