Rookie Wide Receivers

[tbux]

jrry that was a couple times when teams like Indy was pretty dumb on how to defend us- giving him room to roam- big mistake. You think he would be more effective on the outside- that's all good- I do not. I think the best way to use him is the way Minny used Harvin. I think a lot of his talents are wasted on the outside where he has some deficiencies. I think using him in a variety of ways is the way to go- slot, outside, backfield, end arounds, bubble screens etc- jmo. A true outside threat like Watkins or Evans will open things up for Tavon much more and make him much more effective.

 

[Alan]

I like your avatar tbux!

 

[-X-]

I like your avatar tbux!
View attachment 1571

He may not. I snuck it in on him because I was tiring of the giant "?" as his avatar.

 

[Alan]

-X- showing his good taste:
He may not. I snuck it in on him because I was tiring of the giant "?" as his avatar.

He should thank you IMO.

 

[tbux]

thanks X - figured it was you- I was going to ask someone how to do it- but I haven't as of yet. Waiting til we draft Watkins and have one with Tavon and Watkins in it.

 

[-X-]

thanks X - figured it was you- I was going to ask someone how to do it- but I haven't as of yet. Waiting til we draft Watkins and have one with Tavon and Watkins in it.

You know where to find me...

 

[jrry32]

jrry that was a couple times when teams like Indy was pretty dumb on how to defend us- giving him room to roam- big mistake.

He did the same thing in other games.

You think he would be more effective on the outside- that's all good- I do not. I think the best way to use him is the way Minny used Harvin. I think a lot of his talents are wasted on the outside where he has some deficiencies. I think using him in a variety of ways is the way to go- slot, outside, backfield, end arounds, bubble screens etc- jmo. A true outside threat like Watkins or Evans will open things up for Tavon much more and make him much more effective.

I don't agree. I think his deficiencies are more problematic out of the slot where he has to wade through traffic in the middle of the field and risk getting knocked off his route by 250 pound LBs or getting his head taken off by safeties like Chancellor. On the outside, he's often 1 on 1 with a CB.

Austin's cutting ability can make him a lethal route runner as he polishes his skills, his explosive burst and great agility make him difficult to press, his blazing speed makes him a dangerous vertical threat, and his competitive, fiery attitude(and impressive strength for his size) makes him a surprisingly effective blocker.

Here are his numbers:
Slot
52 targets
30 receptions
57.7%
207 yards
6.9 YPC
2 TDs

Outside
13 targets
10 receptions
76.9%
211 yards
21.1 YPC
2 TDs

If you count the 63 yard TD that got called back for tripping(by LT Jake Long) against Carolina, his OUTSIDE stats were:
14 targets
11 receptions
78.6%
274 yards
24.9 YPC
3 TDs

And 2 of his 3 targets that weren't caught came on a deep post against Atlanta that Austin was open on but Sam made an inaccurate throw and a 9 route against Tennessee where Austin burned Jason McCourty and Clemens overthrew him.

Austin's blazing speed is better used outside. And that'll open up the underneath stuff for his YAC skills to take over. From there, it's not hard to utilize plays such as reverses to get the ball in his hands. Nor does it stop us from using him in the back-field.

 

[-X-]

Austin's blazing speed is better used outside. And that'll open up the underneath stuff for his YAC skills to take over. From there, it's not hard to utilize plays such as reverses to get the ball in his hands. Nor does it stop us from using him in the back-field.

IMO, that's just an attribute. Receivers with massive speed can be neutralized (see: Givens, Hester, etc). I know what you're saying, and I agree to an extent, but Tavon would be limited as primarily an X or Z. The Rams (IMO) drafted him to be a utility player who can exploit an opposing defense's weaknesses by lining him up ON said weakness. For example, he could be used more effectively as a Y receiver against a 3-4 defense with liabilities at LB than he could as an X or Z against a 4-3 with stout corners. Same can be said for using him as a HB against a slow front 4 in a 4-3 playing zone. I know you're not lobbying for him to be solely an outside threat, but I do get the impression that you're against him playing slot as his primary role. I just think that's a bit short-sighted given the versatility of not only him, but also the varying looks he'd get both inside the division and outside the division.

 

[tbux]

IMO, that's just an attribute. Receivers with massive speed can be neutralized (see: Givens, Hester, etc). I know what you're saying, and I agree to an extent, but Tavon would be limited as primarily an X or Z. The Rams (IMO) drafted him to be a utility player who can exploit an opposing defense's weaknesses by lining him up ON said weakness. For example, he could be used more effectively as a Y receiver against a 3-4 defense with liabilities at LB than he could as an X or Z against a 4-3 with stout corners. Same can be said for using him as a HB against a slow front 4 in a 4-3 playing zone. I know you're not lobbying for him to be solely an outside threat, but I do get the impression that you're against him playing slot as his primary role. I just think that's a bit short-sighted given the versatility of not only him, but also the varying looks he'd get both inside the division and outside the division.

well said

 

[jrry32]

IMO, that's just an attribute.

That's only one attribute because I didn't want to repeat the list I gave earlier in the post.

Receivers with massive speed can be neutralized (see: Givens, Hester, etc). I know what you're saying, and I agree to an extent, but Tavon would be limited as primarily an X or Z.

If that's all a WR has, they can be. But Austin has YAC ability, he has the attributes to be a great route runner, and he can beat the press.

I think he's more limited in the slot.

The Rams (IMO) drafted him to be a utility player who can exploit an opposing defense's weaknesses by lining him up ON said weakness. For example, he could be used more effectively as a Y receiver against a 3-4 defense with liabilities at LB than he could as an X or Z against a 4-3 with stout corners. Same can be said for using him as a HB against a slow front 4 in a 4-3 playing zone. I know you're not lobbying for him to be solely an outside threat, but I do get the impression that you're against him playing slot as his primary role. I just think that's a bit short-sighted given the versatility of not only him, but also the varying looks he'd get both inside the division and outside the division.

I am all for moving him around but I am against using his primarily in the slot. He should primarily be used as an outside WR. Guy should be treated like the WR he is...not a gimmick. It makes him more dangerous imo.

I think it's the opposite of short-sighted. It gives him a set role to grow in, it should allow him to avoid the big hits that come over the middle which keeps him healthy, and it makes good use of the Rams resources.

 

[-X-]

I am all for moving him around but I am against using his primarily in the slot. He should primarily be used as an outside WR. Guy should be treated like the WR he is...not a gimmick. It makes him more dangerous imo.

I think it's the opposite of short-sighted. It gives him a set role to grow in, it should allow him to avoid the big hits that come over the middle which keeps him healthy, and it makes good use of the Rams resources.

I agree that he shouldn't be PRIMARILY a slot receiver, but I don't think he should be primarily a flanker or SE either. He can beat press, but he can also be smothered by it too, from what I saw last year. I think his primary role should be whatever the defense shows as a weakness. Whether that's X, Y, Z, or HB. The disconnect I see with Schotty (who I think is good) is that he doesn't use motion nearly as much as he demonstrated he liked to use it in the past. The easiest way to game-plan for someone like Tavon is for us to pigeon-hole him at a particular position. Similarly, the easiest way for us to capitalize on Tavon's strengths, is to use him at the position that takes advantage of any given defense's weaknesses. In summary, I think it's best to just develop him at multiple positions, and then uncork him on a defense's most glaring weakness. Not try to make him "beat" a particular defender regardless of whatever else is going on at other positions (e.g., play him at Z against the defense's #1 corner, when that same defense has a weakness at nickel corner or LB).

 

[jrry32]

I agree that he shouldn't be PRIMARILY a slot receiver, but I don't think he should be primarily a flanker or SE either. He can beat press, but he can also be smothered by it too, from what I saw last year. I think his primary role should be whatever the defense shows as a weakness. Whether that's X, Y, Z, or HB. The disconnect I see with Schotty (who I think is good) is that he doesn't use motion nearly as much as he demonstrated he liked to use it in the past. The easiest way to game-plan for someone like Tavon is for us to pigeon-hole him at a particular position. Similarly, the easiest way for us to capitalize on Tavon's strengths, is to use him at the position that takes advantage of any given defense's weaknesses. In summary, I think it's best to just develop him at multiple positions, and then uncork him on a defense's most glaring weakness. Not try to make him "beat" a particular defender regardless of whatever else is going on at other positions (e.g., play him at Z against the defense's #1 corner, when that same defense has a weakness at nickel corner or LB).

I don't agree. He made defenders look silly quite a few times when they tried to press. And that's ROOKIE Tavon. I don't think the kid should be treated as a gimmick to be moved around to try and get a mismatch. He's a guy that can win 1 on 1 vs. DBs. Make use of that. Put one of our more limited WRs against the overmatched defender.

Personally, if they're rolling coverage towards Tavon on the outside, the kid is doing something right and I'm okay with that.

I agree that he should be used some at HB though.

 

[DR RAM]

I don't agree. He made defenders look silly quite a few times when they tried to press. And that's ROOKIE Tavon. I don't think the kid should be treated as a gimmick to be moved around to try and get a mismatch. He's a guy that can win 1 on 1 vs. DBs. Make use of that. Put one of our more limited WRs against the overmatched defender.

Personally, if they're rolling coverage towards Tavon on the outside, the kid is doing something right and I'm okay with that.

I agree that he should be used some at HB though.

This is one of those cases where I think you two are arguing, almost, the same thing, but in a different way.

We can all agree, that when he came on, he was setting almost records. If he stays healthy...watch out.

 

[-X-]

I don't agree. He made defenders look silly quite a few times when they tried to press. And that's ROOKIE Tavon. I don't think the kid should be treated as a gimmick to be moved around to try and get a mismatch. He's a guy that can win 1 on 1 vs. DBs. Make use of that. Put one of our more limited WRs against the overmatched defender.

Personally, if they're rolling coverage towards Tavon on the outside, the kid is doing something right and I'm okay with that.

I agree that he should be used some at HB though.

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying, Jrry. I know he has the capability and has demonstrated the ability to exploit 1-on-1 outside coverage. I'm just injecting the reality that elite corners shut him right he hell down too. I do agree that as a rookie, he's demonstrated the ability to evolve to the point of being an elite receiver too. All I'm saying is, I wouldn't limit him to being pigeon-holed into a certain 'type' of receiver. Until we know (fully) what his premiere strength is, I would move him all over the field, and keep moving him weekly based upon the game film of the opponent. Understand this. I KNOW he's an elite talent. I just don't want him being pigeon-holed as an X Y or Z. I want him as the wildcard every week. Is your LCB hurting? Tavon is there on that guy. Is your RCB weak at press? Tavon is there to have him eating dirt. Is your nickel corner the third string? Oh for the love of God, TRY to stop Tavon today! Is your defense weak against spread offenses and fast RBs? Guess who you get to stop now. All this does is give the Rams the ability to free someone else up (Givens, Quick, Cook, etc) for a big day and/or put Tavon in the position to take advantage of a weakness.

They didn't draft him to be an X. Or a Y. Or a Z. Or the HB. They drafted him to put points on the board.
I expect them to take advantage of all of those opportunities.

 

[jrry32]

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying, Jrry. I know he has the capability and has demonstrated the ability to exploit 1-on-1 outside coverage. I'm just injecting the reality that elite corners shut him right he hell down too. I do agree that as a rookie, he's demonstrated the ability to evolve to the point of being an elite receiver too. All I'm saying is, I wouldn't limit him to being pigeon-holed into a certain 'type' of receiver. Until we know (fully) what his premiere strength is, I would move him all over the field, and keep moving him weekly based upon the game film of the opponent. Understand this. I KNOW he's an elite talent. I just don't want him being pigeon-holed as an X Y or Z. I want him as the wildcard every week. Is your LCB hurting? Tavon is there on that guy. Is your RCB weak at press? Tavon is there to have him eating dirt. Is your nickel corner the third string? Oh for the love of God, TRY to stop Tavon today! Is your defense weak against spread offenses and fast RBs? Guess who you get to stop now. All this does is give the Rams the ability to free someone else up (Givens, Quick, Cook, etc) for a big day and/or put Tavon in the position to take advantage of a weakness.

They didn't draft him to be an X. Or a Y. Or a Z. Or the HB. They drafted him to put points on the board.
I expect them to take advantage of all of those opportunities.

I understand but my thought is that I'd rather us put...Givens for example on that vulnerable nickel CB or Bailey on the LCB that's hurting. That way, Tavon's ability to win 1 on 1 against the more talented player will give us more passing game options. And if they want to help out that weak link at CB(that Givens is against), they have to roll coverage away from Tavon.

Does that make more sense? I was having a hard time conveying that.

 

[lockdnram21]

and receivers that can consistently get open, separate, etc....

once we started running the ball effecively all our recivers were getting open clemons didnt have time or didnt see them.

 

[-X-]

I understand but my thought is that I'd rather us put...Givens for example on that vulnerable nickel CB or Bailey on the LCB that's hurting. That way, Tavon's ability to win 1 on 1 against the more talented player will give us more passing game options. And if they want to help out that weak link at CB(that Givens is against), they have to roll coverage away from Tavon.

Does that make more sense? I was having a hard time conveying that.

Kinda, yeah. I understand what you're saying about putting someone else in the "killer" role to free him up. But Givens isn't a multi-faceted receiver. He's not (IMO) someone who can assume all positions and take advantage of all weaknesses. He can't assume the role of BPA at X, Y, and Z. I liken him to someone like Avery who can force teams to roll coverage, but can't command attention out of the backfield or in the Y. He's not remotely as fluid, or someone who would command more attention out of a defense than that of a spy to neutralize him. But I do understand your philosophy. I don't think we're that far off in terms of how to use him. You like him as X or Z, and I like him as ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO....

For your edification, I do agree that he's been underutilized in the passing game as it pertains to positioning him as a threat on the outside though. I just don't think that we should limit him to such a role. Ya feel me? Look at the film of the upcoming opponent, and then put Tavon on the weakest link.

 

[DR RAM]

Kinda, yeah. I understand what you're saying about putting someone else in the "killer" role to free him up. But Givens isn't a multi-faceted receiver. He's not (IMO) someone who can assume all positions and take advantage of all weaknesses. He can't assume the role of BPA at X, Y, and Z. I liken him to someone like Avery who can force teams to roll coverage, but can't command attention out of the backfield or in the Y. He's not remotely as fluid, or someone who would command more attention out of a defense than that of a spy to neutralize him. But I do understand your philosophy. I don't think we're that far off in terms of how to use him. You like him as X or Z, and I like him as ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO....

For your edification, I do agree that he's been underutilized in the passing game as it pertains to positioning him as a threat on the outside though. I just don't think that we should limit him to such a role. Ya feel me? Look at the film of the upcoming opponent, and then put Tavon on the weakest link.

And I think he just needed a little time to develop. What he has proved, is that he is the playmaker that we've been looking for. I saw the light-bulb go on for him. Watch out.

 

[DR RAM]

@Alan , are you eating popcorn? Jump in, buddy.

 

[Alan]

It's after 2030 hours and I can barely watch TV, but I'm enjoying reading everyone. It's been a good night tonight at the ROD.