Robinson must be reeeeeeaaaaaally far behind, because...

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CoachO

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These guys have been playing football their whole life. Why wouldn't they know most of these things? Also, does it really take 3 months of mini camp, training camp and pre season plus a quarter of the season to learn how to block? They dedicate there entire life to the sport. I really don't believe for a second that he doesn't understand what's going on enough to be more productive then Joseph. I get what your saying coach, I played football for a few years and obviously it's not an easy sport. But it's just unacceptable that GR is not playing.
Because you say it is? This isn't about know HOW to block. Its about knowing WHO to block, and when. But you know that already. Again, I think you are letting your overall frustration with the way things have shaken out so far this season do most of your talking for you.

So what happens, when they throw him out there, and while he is much more physically capable of getting them job done, he struggles to to point of it getting someone (Davis?) hurt? I just don't get the mentality that if these guys aren't starting, that somehow indicates they will never be anything more than what they are 2 months into their first season.

Just because they are "starting", doesn't mean A) they deserve to be strictly because of where they were drafted..... and B) they are playing well enough to indicate they are better than the alternative.
 

jrry32

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You've obviously never watched a single drill or seen what goes into actually playing offensive line at the NFL level. Football is not a hard sport? WOW!!!

Watch one practice, be it the offensive line, or even the TEs and watch the technique that is required on every single play. Any running play, can have 3 or 4 different responsibilities all determined by the alignment of the defensive front. If one guy is in the gap, as opposed to on your inside shoulder, or the guy lined up next to you, will all determine how each guy will be blocked, and by whom. Which foot do to take your first step with, which hand do you punch with? Do you drive block him, or turn him? It may not be rocket science, but to say its not a hard game,,, well, with all due respect, I think you are letting your frustration do the talking.

Now that being said. Do not be surprised when you see him in the starting lineup tomorrow night. It might not be etched in stone. But it seems to look like its gonna happen.

Coach, I agree 110% with your message but the tone is unnecessary. We can disagree without being condescending. And trust me, I have the same issue at times but it's something that we all have to make a conscious effort to watch out for, avoid, and improve on. If you reread your post and see it, edit it out. I know I've done that many times. It's just not conducive to a productive conversation.

I'd actually be interested... because I'm not sure of any others who were in the same boat. At first I thought maybe there'd be a QB taking the Aaron Rodgers route, but even with QBs, if you're drafting them in the top 5, you intend to play them.

But in the end, what matters is getting in there sooner rather than later.

Well, if you are curious, I'm happy to provide it:
Philip Rivers QB San Diego
Marvin Jones LB New York Jets
Steve McNair QB Houston Oilers
Michael Vick QB Atlanta Falcons
Carson Palmer QB Cincinnati Bengals
Eli Manning QB New York Giants
Russell Maryland DT Dallas Cowboys
Donovan McNabb QB Philadelphia Eagles
Willie McGinest LB New England Patriots
Darrell Russell DT Oakland Raiders

All SUCCESSFUL players taken in the Top 5 since 1990 that didn't start AT LEAST their first 4 games. There are more that were unsuccessful.

He could easily work out, he's got a lot of talent, but so far he's had a lot of games where he's been a none factor. I just don't think that the odd big play is worth what we gave up for him.

Hopefully he'll be that big play guy more consistently and the big drop guy much less.

He hasn't been a "drop guy" since the first 5 games of his rookie year where it was clear he wasn't ready mentally. In fact, he's caught 5 of his 6 targets in 2014. The only one he didn't catch was the play he was injured on.

The annoying thing is we probably can't afford Quick and Austin if they're both good players (unless they're both All Pros) so Austin's value if they believed in Quick as much as they claimed was always going to be in his rookie contract. Wasting a year and 1/4 of it isn't encouraging.

I don't believe this at all.
 

jrry32

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These guys have been playing football their whole life. Why wouldn't they know most of these things? Also, does it really take 3 months of mini camp, training camp and pre season plus a quarter of the season to learn how to block? They dedicate there entire life to the sport. I really don't believe for a second that he doesn't understand what's going on enough to be more productive then Joseph. I get what your saying coach, I played football for a few years and obviously it's not an easy sport. But it's just unacceptable that GR is not playing.

Schemes, playbooks, responsibilities, and terminology differ greatly between teams. Especially from college football to pro football. It's not something you just know from playing football; it's something you have to learn. It's not about learning HOW to block. It's about knowing what to do on each given play based on what the defense is showing both pre and post-snap.

I can easily believe that he didn't/doesn't understand what's going on enough to be more productive than Joseph because I've seen other young players forced onto the field in similar circumstances and make tons of mental errors due to that...errors that really hurt their team and hindered that player's development.
 

Legatron4

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Because you say it is? This isn't about know HOW to block. Its about knowing WHO to block, and when. But you know that already. Again, I think you are letting your overall frustration with the way things have shaken out so far this season do most of your talking for you.

So what happens, when they throw him out there, and while he is much more physically capable of getting them job done, he struggles to to point of it getting someone (Davis?) hurt? I just don't get the mentality that if these guys aren't starting, that somehow indicates they will never be anything more than what they are 2 months into their first season.

Just because they are "starting", doesn't mean A) they deserve to be strictly because of where they were drafted..... and B) they are playing well enough to indicate they are better than the alternative.

Okay then why did we draft him? Why are other rookies like Jake Matthews able to start game 1 and be successful? Does GR really have that much more potential?
 

Boffo97

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Well, if you are curious, I'm happy to provide it:
Philip Rivers QB San Diego
Marvin Jones LB New York Jets
Steve McNair QB Houston Oilers
Michael Vick QB Atlanta Falcons
Carson Palmer QB Cincinnati Bengals
Eli Manning QB New York Giants
Russell Maryland DT Dallas Cowboys
Donovan McNabb QB Philadelphia Eagles
Willie McGinest LB New England Patriots
Darrell Russell DT Oakland Raiders

All SUCCESSFUL players taken in the Top 5 since 1990 that didn't start AT LEAST their first 4 games. There are more that were unsuccessful.
Is there a site you're finding these on? Or just from memory? Because I'd be interested, at least for the non-QBs (and I should have remembered about Rivers at least) what game they finally started and what were the circumstances behind their late start.

Maryland, at least, isn't quite relevant to Robinson's case, since he refused to sign and had to be traded, so of course that delayed his debut.
 

jrry32

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Okay then why did we draft him? Why are other rookies like Jake Matthews able to start game 1 and be successful? Does GR really have that much more potential?

For what he can become down the road.

Why can other rookies start and be successful? Players mature and learn at their own pace...just like people. Some learn quicker than others. Some are more ready because of practical experience than others. Keep in mind that Matthews was a Senior, Robinson was a Sophomore. Matthews started four years in college. Robinson started two years in college. Matthews is the son of a HOF NFL OL and a current NFL OL Coach.

Does he have that much more potential? I don't know. We shall see.
 

jrry32

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Is there a site you're finding these on? Or just from memory? Because I'd be interested, at least for the non-QBs (and I should have remembered about Rivers at least) what game they finally started and what were the circumstances behind their late start.

Maryland, at least, isn't quite relevant to Robinson's case, since he refused to sign and had to be traded, so of course that delayed his debut.

Pro Football Reference gave me a list of the players based on a certain criteria and then I looked the ones up that I didn't recall off the top of my head on nfl.com to see when they started and ran a google search to see if they held out or were injured. Maryland slipped through the cracks on that one.

Marvin Jones did not start as a rookie. From what I recall, Russell and McGinest both started around the mid point in the season.
 

Boffo97

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Pro Football Reference gave me a list of the players based on a certain criteria and then I looked the ones up that I didn't recall off the top of my head on nfl.com to see when they started and ran a google search to see if they held out or were injured. Maryland slipped through the cracks on that one.

Marvin Jones did not start as a rookie. From what I recall, Russell and McGinest both started around the mid point in the season.
Thanks for the research. :)
 

Username

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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he needs to play right now either way. he could very well be bright but doesn't always translate to the football IQ or vice versa with the wonderlic test. the good grades in college comment made me chuckle. man you don't want to know what goes on behind closed doors with NCAA players and their "classes"

I understand and agree on all of that. They can't rig the test though. Not like the wonderlic is that hard of a test either, but the kid has a brain. That doesn't translate into football knowledge, and I even said what he ran in college isn't even remotely close to anything on a pro level. I was just simply pointing out that he's not a dumbass.
 

Fatbot

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All SUCCESSFUL players taken in the Top 5 since 1990 that didn't start AT LEAST their first 4 games.
Interesting there's no OL on that list. QBs are a special situation, so taking them out that leaves 4 other positions guys:
-D.Russell played 5 seasons for Oak then was suspended for PED
-R.Maryland played 5 seasons for Dal then left as a free agent
-M.Jones and W.McGinnest had 10+ good years with their teams

The problem is those last 2 career guys seem to be a thing of the past prior to the new CBA. The Not For Long league also applies to how long a guy stays with a team. It's possible the Rams only will retain the rights to GRob for 4 years, and if he does not play for half or the entire first year, that's lost value they didn't get out of that #2 pick -- it's max is already shaved off by 1/8th.

This has me seeing the rain cloud in Brian Quick's success as well. Imagine if he continues his development and has a great 2014 and a Pro Bowl 2015. He would have had 2 seasons of nothing + 2 seasons finally reaching his potential = four accrued seasons means he's a free agent. Obviously we trust the Rams sign him before he would leave, but it is a possibility half of his 4 year career could be the Rams training him for his next team.

But obviously if the Rams win 3 Super Bowls with GRob before he leaves, like Dallas did with Maryland, nobody will care he hasn't started these first few games.
 

JIMERAMS

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Okay then why did we draft him? Why are other rookies like Jake Matthews able to start game 1 and be successful? Does GR really have that much more potential?

Question for you, do you really think Mathews would be starting over long?
 

BriansRams

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Too many other teams are playing their 1st round draft picks, and we seem to want to "groom" ours for the future. Sorry, but we are 1-3, and IMO G-Rob needs to play and get his baptism by fire. If we are a run first team, then he should be playing because of his physical nature. The transition from LG to LT, in the future, can be done during the off-season. It only makes sense to move Saffold to RG and plug G-Rob to LG. That is the best O-Line scenario. SMH with G-Rob sitting on the bench. Has to be extremely frustrating for him.
I am in 100% agreement with you on this. It's ridiculous that he's on the bench.
 

BriansRams

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Question for you, do you really think Mathews would be starting over long?

I have a follow up question. Do you think that Robinson is better than Joseph ... right now? I do.
 

JIMERAMS

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I have a follow up question. Do you think that Robinson is better than Joseph ... right now? I do.

Yes I do but that isn't saying much Joseph is bad period. I also have no idea what fisher thinks and that is what matters. I asked you that because even if we had taken Mathews he wouldn't be playing and everyone would say he's a bust. It's what fisher does he likes to p,ay veterans over rookies unless he has to.
 

jrry32

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Interesting there's no OL on that list. QBs are a special situation, so taking them out that leaves 4 other positions guys:
-D.Russell played 5 seasons for Oak then was suspended for PED
-R.Maryland played 5 seasons for Dal then left as a free agent
-M.Jones and W.McGinnest had 10+ good years with their teams

The problem is those last 2 career guys seem to be a thing of the past prior to the new CBA. The Not For Long league also applies to how long a guy stays with a team. It's possible the Rams only will retain the rights to GRob for 4 years, and if he does not play for half or the entire first year, that's lost value they didn't get out of that #2 pick -- it's max is already shaved off by 1/8th.

This has me seeing the rain cloud in Brian Quick's success as well. Imagine if he continues his development and has a great 2014 and a Pro Bowl 2015. He would have had 2 seasons of nothing + 2 seasons finally reaching his potential = four accrued seasons means he's a free agent. Obviously we trust the Rams sign him before he would leave, but it is a possibility half of his 4 year career could be the Rams training him for his next team.

But obviously if the Rams win 3 Super Bowls with GRob before he leaves, like Dallas did with Maryland, nobody will care he hasn't started these first few games.

I just don't like this rationale. It's not two seasons of nothing. It's two seasons of development. Which is the point of limiting rookie contracts with caps. You lessen the financial risk with busts and you lessen the financial burden for teams with players that need development. By having those rookie caps, you allow a greater percentage of the salary cap money to be spent on veterans who earned it. We get Brian Quick on a cheap deal while we develop him and then pay him when he earns it.

I think some of you aren't looking at this in the proper context. The choice isn't A) get an immediate impact player that turns into a stud or B) get a player that develops into a stud a couple years down the road. It's more of a percentage breakdown. I actually just ran the numbers out of curiosity, for the players drafted in the first round from 2000 to 2004(did this so the final class would have a decade in the league so there was no question about what a guy developed into) the percentage breakdown is:
15% are immediate impact players that develop into studs
15% are not immediate impact players that develop into studs
15% are immediate impact players that develop into starters(but not studs)
15% are not immediate impact players that develop into starters(but not studs)
40% are busts

So I'm not going to complain if it takes a guy 2-3 years to develop into a stud or even a quality starter because he could have very well been a bust. And that's ONLY looking at FIRST ROUND PICKS over that 5 year period.
 

Dodgersrf

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Week 10 is our half way point. I'd be surprised if he isn't starting at LG by then
 

OnceARam

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I posted these two quotes on another site in Tavon conversation...rather than argue the same point...I'll just post them here:




This was directed towards another person...so don't take it as directed at you...I just think some of the points and data in the argument are relevant to the Tavon discussion.

Don't forget DeSean Jackson.
 

Amitar

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Robinson this year and Tavon last year. Both are 1st round picks and both have done squat this year. First round picks should be playmakers. Very disappointing. I hope the Rams turn it around on MNF but I just don't see it. The Rams on well on their way to a 1-10 record before playing the Raiders and could very well go 3-13 this year and 1-15 is not out of the question either.
 
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jrry32

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No, it's not. When you're drafting in a league where around 40% of the first round picks are busts and that number only increases as the rounds go by, hitting on your picks consistently...even if you have to develop them...is NOT a losing proposition.

Go look at the best teams in the NFL. They don't hit on 100% of their picks. They just hit on the majority. If you do that, you'll be competitive. Because you can replace the players you can't pay with guys you've been developing. That's what the good teams do.