Rob Havenstein's Struggles Explained - Ankle Injury

[jrry32]

I made this post in the Left Tackle solution thread, but I thought it warranted it's own thread (again, credit to Hacksaw on another Rams board for seeing this and creating these gifs):

I doubt Havenstein will be competing. He was our best OL this year. Somebody made an incredible point on another board. Havenstein limped off the field in the Saints game. Since that time, Havenstein has looked god awful. That person then posted gifs from the Atlanta game and the Seattle game. Those gifs made it clear that Havenstein wasn't putting weight on his right leg. Essentially, he was trying to block with one leg.

Havenstein shouldn't have been playing the last few weeks. IIRC, he's given up 4 or 5 of the 9 sacks he's allowed this year since the Saints game. When you see those gifs, it's clear that it's not a lack of talent. I'll go find them and post them. This is from a poster named Hacksaw on another Rams board:

He's not putting pressure on his right leg when he's setting. Which is why he has been a total turnstile in pass protection. And watch him when he runs, he's clearly hobbling.

I went back and checked to see Havenstein's performance since the New Orleans injury. In those 5 games (NO, NE, ATL, SEA, and SF) since leaving the field with an ankle injury, Havenstein gave up 5.5 sacks. In his first 23 games in the NFL, Havenstein gave up 3.5 sacks.

It totally explains why Havenstein went from a guy who we considered an above average RT to the worst RT in football. Havenstein even left the SF game with an injury to that exact ankle after a 49er rolled up on it. I don't know why our coaches played Havenstein over the past few weeks. His ankle injury was far too severe for him to be anything but a liability. They did him and Goff a disservice.

Moving forward, I'm no longer concerned about Havenstein. A RT isn't going to look good when he can barely put pressure on his right leg (outside leg in pass set). He has no ability to defend the edge rush. Once his ankle heals, he should be back to his normal self.

 

[Dodgersrf]

It's nice to know there is a legitimate explanation for it. He can man the position for years.

The unfortunate part is that the coaching staff believed that Hav with 1 leg, is still better than anyone else on the roster. Which is more than likely the case.

 

[Merlin]

That is my hope. Havenstein has to bounce back next year, we're gonna need him.

 

[AllGasNoBrakes]

What's more concerning is how incompetent this coaching staff was.

Choosing to play an injured tackle clearly struggling is a danger to both a promising RT (both mentally and physically) and also your QB of the future that you just mortgaged the future for......

If they were playing him bc there was no better alternative then that's even worse. You can't coach up any other tackle to play better than a one legged guy....?

 

[BrooklynRam74]

As it turns out, our Rams were cursed with CRIMINAL level Head Coaching, Coordinating AND Position Coaching save for Gregg Williams. Fisher seemed outright seenile towards the end. Keeping Hav in with a bad ankle = keeping Keenum in with a Concussion.

 

[DaveFan'51]

What's more concerning is how incompetent this coaching staff was.

This problem will hopefully be solved next year!!

 

[fearsomefour]

Hav wasn't playing well before the NO game either. Not terrible however. Missing camp due to his foot injury could explain away his pre ankle injury level of play however.
I am keeping the young guys the Rams have I. The hope that new coaching and approach can bring the supposed talent out of them, I am also bringing in several mid level FA across the line to compete and probably using the second round pick on Online as well. Amazing that after 5 years and several different approaches nothing got solved up front.

 

[LACHAMP46]

If we had kept Reynolds, this might not have been a problem. If you're too injured to play effectively, he should have taken HIMSELF out of the lineup. Why endanger an entire game plan because you can't move?

DC's scout teams...they realize Havenstein has trouble with speed and power rushers...I'm sure Barksdale ankles hurt when he played KC and that Houston guy too...

4-11 and now we've got the Jeff Fisher excuse disease going throughout the ROD board....:blah:

 

[So Ram]

Hav wasn't playing well before the NO game either. Not terrible however. Missing camp due to his foot injury could explain away his pre ankle injury level of play however.
I am keeping the young guys the Rams have I. The hope that new coaching and approach can bring the supposed talent out of them, I am also bringing in several mid level FA across the line to compete and probably using the second round pick on Online as well. Amazing that after 5 years and several different approaches nothing got solved up front.

There was a post from an insider that came on this board. He stated the concern of Rob Hav ....
---I'm not sure what exactly what it was.My guess is his ankle is really a serious concern career wise. He had it hurt last season & then finished 2015 with it not being 100%. Why did he sit out the whole training camp ??

 

[bubbaramfan]

Havenstien had injury issues before TC started. He didn't practice and he didn't play until game 4 of pre season and you could tell then he wasn't 100%. Why they didn't go with the OL they started every game in pre season was a real coaching blunder. Bonifay and I and other ROD members posted here often our concern about the OL after game one loss to 48er's. Why wasn't it as apparent to the coaching staff as it was to mere fans? Havenstien should have been IR'd. He would been ready for 2017 OTA"s and TC, now not so sure he recovers in time.

My take is the OL's poor performance and the coaching stubbornness is the main cause of the Rams dismal season.

 

[fearsomefour]

There was a post from an insider that came on this board. He stated the concern of Rob Hav ....
---I'm not sure what exactly what it was.My guess is his ankle is really a serious concern career wise. He had it hurt last season & then finished 2015 with it not being 100%. Why did he sit out the whole training camp ??

Recovery from a surgery.....foot surgery I thought. Might be wrong. If his biggest plus is being a giant having bad feet/ankles will kill him.
Like everything the previous admin touched the picks invested in the O line have been crap. Nearly total failure. So, is it the scheme mismatched to the players drafted? The actual talent level of player drafted? Or the O line and O staff have not developed them? In any case it is a damning case as to why Fisher and Co failed and why, realistically, Snead should go as well.
None of the starting five looks like a quality starting O lineman right now. Doesn't mean they can't be. Finding the next coach who will run an O that matches what the O line can do would be nice. Another complete rip and rebuild seems like more torturous wasted time.

 

[BonifayRam]

I am of the opinion that our Right Tackle post is already fortified going into the 2017 season. Rams will have FIVE RT's signed in 2017. Rob Havenstein, Andrew Donnal, Rodger Saffold, Darrell Williams & Pace Murphy all having starts & playing time @ RT for the Rams the past two seasons.

I have been constant on my posting on the poor play by Rob Havenstein since the season began. Simple fact is RH has been injured all year since he broke his toe early in OTA's. This should give us some hope that RH should return in 2017 fully healed. RH might also continue to work on his overall body conditioning to get his body well defined & extra excess body weight off so he can be quicker to battle those speed rusher incoming from the left DE.

Can we say that Boudreau in keeping RH in the lineup was a very large costly MISTAKE?

 

[bubbaramfan]

Every one of those OL draft picks, Havenstien, Brown, Wichmann and Donnal, came from top notch colleges and they all were starters for more than one season on their OL. All of them had playing time of three years.. They were all solid draft picks.

 

[So Ram]

Jry32 talked about LT ..

Talking about the draft picks. Jamon. brown played LT & is better on the left side as in LG.

 

[…..]

I'm at a cross roads with this type of discussion.

On one hand, I dont want to belittle an injury.

On the other hand, I agree with @LACHAMP46 .....it will grow old fast if we spend the next few weeks finding excuses for each individual mediocre performance. Other teams suffered way worse injuries and roster problems. We need to get past the excuses and accept reality, then we can then accept responsibilty for our suckage.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Like everything the previous admin touched the picks invested in the O line have been crap. Nearly total failure. So, is it the scheme mismatched to the players drafted? The actual talent level of player drafted?

I looked closely at most of the linemen in the senior bowl that year...I liked the way Hav practiced....but man, he just didn't LOOK like an NFL body (esp. LOWER BODY)...Loved Marpet & Smith (Penn St tackle)....then we get Hav in the 2nd roundalm:..that's ALL on SNEAD....Dude doesn't have great ability....I thought I read in one scouting article that they may have to move him to guard...

 

[So Ram]

I am of the opinion that our Right Tackle post is already fortified going into the 2017 season. Rams will have FIVE RT's signed in 2017. Rob Havenstein, Andrew Donnal, Rodger Saffold, Darrell Williams & Pace Murphy all having starts & playing time @ RT for the Rams the past two seasons.

I have been constant on my posting on the poor play by Rob Havenstein since the season began. Simple fact is RH has been injured all year since he broke his toe early in OTA's. This should give us some hope that RH should return in 2017 fully healed. RH might also continue to work on his overall body conditioning to get his body well defined & extra excess body weight off so he can be quicker to battle those speed rusher incoming from the left DE.

Can we say that Boudreau in keeping RH in the lineup was a very large costly MISTAKE?

What about Isiah Battle ?? Still real young & was hurt.
D. Williams ??
At guard The Rams have kept
David Arkon

 

[So Ram]

I looked closely at most of the linemen in the senior bowl that year...I liked the way Hav practiced....but man, he just didn't LOOK like an NFL body (esp. LOWER BODY)...Loved Marpet & Smith (Penn St tackle)....then we get Hav in the 2nd roundalm:..that's ALL on SNEAD....Dude doesn't have great ability....I thought I read in one scouting article that they may have to move him to guard...

I look at last season & Rob Hav was solid right out of the gate.

 

[den-the-coach]

I believe a healthy Havenstein will bounce back, right now my concerns are at LT, Center and one of the guard positions...My hope that amongst Brown, Wichmann or Donnel, the Rams can find one functional guard.

 

[jrry32]

I'm at a cross roads with this type of discussion.

On one hand, I dont want to belittle an injury.

On the other hand, I agree with @LACHAMP46 .....it will grow old fast if we spend the next few weeks finding excuses for each individual mediocre performance. Other teams suffered way worse injuries and roster problems. We need to get past the excuses and accept reality, then we can then accept responsibilty for our suckage.

Injuries aren't a valid excuse for the Rams sucking this year as a team. Injuries are a valid "excuse" for an individual player sucking, especially when his performance just happened to dramatically drop when he got injured (or his injury got worse).

To move forward, it's necessary to understand what went wrong and why.