Revisiting the Cook Signing

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iced

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So 5 games into the season, how does everyone feel about the cook signing?

Only week 1 was he very, productive - since then, we've seen numerous missed blocking assignments and just complete failure in the run blocking game. Even the coaching staff has taken him off the field in a lot of running down, and Kendricks had more targets last week
 

ChrisW

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iced said:
So 5 games into the season, how does everyone feel about the cook signing?

Only week 1 was he very, productive - since then, we've seen numerous missed blocking assignments and just complete failure in the run blocking game. Even the coaching staff has taken him off the field in a lot of running down, and Kendricks had more targets last week

The coaching staff has gone downhill. They aren't coaching people up from game to game. If it's a flat out refusal by Cook to block, I would think that Fisher would sit him.
 

iced

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ChrisW said:
iced said:
So 5 games into the season, how does everyone feel about the cook signing?

Only week 1 was he very, productive - since then, we've seen numerous missed blocking assignments and just complete failure in the run blocking game. Even the coaching staff has taken him off the field in a lot of running down, and Kendricks had more targets last week

The coaching staff has gone downhill. They aren't coaching people up from game to game. If it's a flat out refusal by Cook to block, I would think that Fisher would sit him.

at times it did look like a refusal, some real half assed attempts..

but the fact that harkey and kendricks were in for run downs vs the jags is very telling
 

BonifayRam

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Right now the top priority is still to develop a running game. All else is just secondary. Sam must have a running game to be able to do what Shotty's offense is built around. I guess Fisher & Shotty thought that the five OL starters were good enough to produce the required run game that is mandated. WRONG! so we have a fail here where the Ram coaches overestimated the ability of this OL to run block. Thus now we have to utilize a FB/H-back Cory Harkey in place of slot Tavon Austin & a LOS TE Lance Kendricks in place LOS TE Jared Cook to help the OL on the run blocks. So it not just about Jared Cook's dismal run blocking but Cook is a big part too.

The OL is the real issue. I am of the opinion that these four starting tackle size types ...Long 6-7 320,Williams 6-6 320,Dahl 6-6 306 & Barksdale 6-5 326..will never be adequate enough to produce any constant run blocking without help from the FB Harkey & TE Kendricks. This OL is a good pass blocking OL when this offense has shown that it can run the ball without it its open season on the QB & this OL has proved it can not hold up & keep Sam up without the run game. So Fisher has a quandary here.

Right now with the current OL Cook can be no more than a part time player as a slot receiver with the other big high cost rookie No 1 draft pick Austin sharing limited time on the field.....This is the worse kind of scenario....declining limited opportunities for the Rams two biggest newest costly offensive weapons (Cook & Austin ).... where now you are increasing playing time for blocking types (Harkey & Kendricks) in order to meet your #1 current priority.
 

Warner4Prez

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BonifayRam said:
Right now the top priority is still to develop a running game. All else is just secondary. Sam must have a running game to be able to do what Shotty's offense is built around. I guess Fisher & Shotty thought that the five OL starters were good enough to produce the required run game that is mandated. WRONG! so we have a fail here where the Ram coaches overestimated the ability of this OL to run block. Thus now we have to utilize a FB/H-back Cory Harkey in place of slot Tavon Austin & a LOS TE Lance Kendricks in place LOS TE Jared Cook to help the OL on the run blocks. So it not just about Jared Cook's dismal run blocking but Cook is a big part too.

The OL is the real issue. I am of the opinion that these four starting tackle size types ...Long 6-7 320,Williams 6-6 320,Dahl 6-6 306 & Barksdale 6-5 326..will never be adequate enough to produce any constant run blocking without help from the FB Harkey & TE Kendricks. This OL is a good pass blocking OL when this offense has shown that it can run the ball without it its open season on the QB & this OL has proved it can not hold up & keep Sam up without the run game. So Fisher has a quandary here.

Right now with the current OL Cook can be no more than a part time player as a slot receiver with the other big high cost rookie No 1 draft pick Austin sharing limited time on the field.....This is the worse kind of scenario....declining limited opportunities for the Rams two biggest newest costly offensive weapons (Cook & Austin ).... where now you are increasing playing time for blocking types (Harkey & Kendricks) in order to meet your #1 current priority.

I feel that's pretty spot on. It's the same thing we saw in 2011 when Kendricks was being forced to block rather than play to his own strengths and Salas didn't get the chance to sniff much of the field.
 

iced

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BonifayRam said:
Right now the top priority is still to develop a running game. All else is just secondary. Sam must have a running game to be able to do what Shotty's offense is built around. I guess Fisher & Shotty thought that the five OL starters were good enough to produce the required run game that is mandated. WRONG! so we have a fail here where the Ram coaches overestimated the ability of this OL to run block. Thus now we have to utilize a FB/H-back Cory Harkey in place of slot Tavon Austin & a LOS TE Lance Kendricks in place LOS TE Jared Cook to help the OL on the run blocks. So it not just about Jared Cook's dismal run blocking but Cook is a big part too.

The OL is the real issue. I am of the opinion that these four starting tackle size types ...Long 6-7 320,Williams 6-6 320,Dahl 6-6 306 & Barksdale 6-5 326..will never be adequate enough to produce any constant run blocking without help from the FB Harkey & TE Kendricks. This OL is a good pass blocking OL when this offense has shown that it can run the ball without it its open season on the QB & this OL has proved it can not hold up & keep Sam up without the run game. So Fisher has a quandary here.

Right now with the current OL Cook can be no more than a part time player as a slot receiver with the other big high cost rookie No 1 draft pick Austin sharing limited time on the field.....This is the worse kind of scenario....declining limited opportunities for the Rams two biggest newest costly offensive weapons (Cook & Austin ).... where now you are increasing playing time for blocking types (Harkey & Kendricks) in order to meet your #1 current priority.

the run blocking i feel is real killer...one of course it kills the run game when you allow tackles in the backfield, but also because it can act as a tell to the defense. "oh cook's coming on the field, easy on the Play action Fake..."

if you're only coming in on passing downs and not being used as a blocker, how do you think a defense reads it...
 

BonifayRam

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iced said:
BonifayRam said:
Right now the top priority is still to develop a running game. All else is just secondary. Sam must have a running game to be able to do what Shotty's offense is built around. I guess Fisher & Shotty thought that the five OL starters were good enough to produce the required run game that is mandated. WRONG! so we have a fail here where the Ram coaches overestimated the ability of this OL to run block. Thus now we have to utilize a FB/H-back Cory Harkey in place of slot Tavon Austin & a LOS TE Lance Kendricks in place LOS TE Jared Cook to help the OL on the run blocks. So it not just about Jared Cook's dismal run blocking but Cook is a big part too.

The OL is the real issue. I am of the opinion that these four starting tackle size types ...Long 6-7 320,Williams 6-6 320,Dahl 6-6 306 & Barksdale 6-5 326..will never be adequate enough to produce any constant run blocking without help from the FB Harkey & TE Kendricks. This OL is a good pass blocking OL when this offense has shown that it can run the ball without it its open season on the QB & this OL has proved it can not hold up & keep Sam up without the run game. So Fisher has a quandary here.

Right now with the current OL Cook can be no more than a part time player as a slot receiver with the other big high cost rookie No 1 draft pick Austin sharing limited time on the field.....This is the worse kind of scenario....declining limited opportunities for the Rams two biggest newest costly offensive weapons (Cook & Austin ).... where now you are increasing playing time for blocking types (Harkey & Kendricks) in order to meet your #1 current priority.

the run blocking i feel is real killer...one of course it kills the run game when you allow tackles in the backfield, but also because it can act as a tell to the defense. "oh cook's coming on the field, easy on the Play action Fake..."

if you're only coming in on passing downs and not being used as a blocker, how do you think a defense reads it...

Yep iced ...Jags got caught big time for not considering Harkey as a receiver. Sam finally saw it and completed the pass for a big gain. I like Harkey! Currently I think it best to use Cook more & more as a wide out instead of a TE where blocking is mandated. That way Cook's deep speed can be used.
 

Sum1

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Cook wasn't brought in to block.

The coaching staff isn't putting Austin or Cook in the right positions.
 

Graphicker

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I still stand by it. Don't know what's up but he'll break thru it. If we would not have singed him there would have been a excuse for not giving sam weapons. The FO did what it had to do.

240+? Yards is still pretty good and still leads the team.

Have faith y'all. :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p
 

SaneRamsFan

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I think it all started going wrong the day Rok Watkins walked into camp out of condition.
 

jrry32

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Fine with it. I think we all knew who Cook was coming in. As Tavon, Givens and Pettis start to demand more attention, Cook will open back up. He is definitely a weapon in the passing game. So what if we pull him off the field on some running downs?
 

CoachO

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I think the other factor in this whole equation is Kendricks NOT being up to par after missing the entire training camp. That they are forced to use Harkey in the FB/H-Back role, is telling to me. Kendricks just hasn't been playing at the same level in the running game to this point in the season.

If and when he regains his game, and becomes the lead/wham blocker than Harkey is now being asked to be, it will make a huge difference in what personnel packages they can use.

Cook, being used as an "in line" TE was never going to be a big part of the plan. But when you break the huddle in that "12" package, it can create the mismatches they are looking for, by forcing teams to stay in their Base defense, now allowing Cook to be matched up on a LB.

But until that happens, you are going to see more of Kendricks on the drag routes, rather than Cook in the "seam" routes he can dominate in.

As far as having Austin and Cook on the field together, in the "11" personnel grouping, the issue is having Shottenheimer COMMIT to still trying to run the ball against the 6 man boxes, that everyone else seems to be able to exploit against OUR defense.

The continued attempts to use the check downs as a substitute for the running game just doesn't get it done.
 

iced

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CoachO said:
I think the other factor in this whole equation is Kendricks NOT being up to par after missing the entire training camp. That they are forced to use Harkey in the FB/H-Back role, is telling to me. Kendricks just hasn't been playing at the same level in the running game to this point in the season.

:huh:

kendricks was out there with harkey (and probably more) at in line tight end, the position cook WAS playing...

Kendricks actually garnered more targets than cook last weekend


pretty sure their whole goal was to get Kendricks and cook as mismatches in 2 TE sets, with the defense not knowing what they're gonna do....but as far as we can tell, we can't run with cook in blocking....that's why it's kendricks and harkey, and not harkey and cook or kendricks and cook.

I understand blocking is an art, just like receiving - but some of these "blocking attempts" are just plain pathetic... and i'm sure that's who farr was talking about when just playing for money
 

CoachO

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iced said:
CoachO said:
I think the other factor in this whole equation is Kendricks NOT being up to par after missing the entire training camp. That they are forced to use Harkey in the FB/H-Back role, is telling to me. Kendricks just hasn't been playing at the same level in the running game to this point in the season.

:huh:

kendricks was out there with harkey (and probably more) at in line tight end, the position cook WAS playing...

Kendricks actually garnered more targets than cook last weekend


pretty sure their whole goal was to get Kendricks and cook as mismatches in 2 TE sets, with the defense not knowing what they're gonna do....but as far as we can tell, we can't run with cook in blocking....that's why it's kendricks and harkey, and not harkey and cook or kendricks and cook.

I understand blocking is an art, just like receiving - but some of these "blocking attempts" are just plain pathetic... and i'm sure that's who farr was talking about when just playing for money

That's my whole point. That they are being forced to use Harkey in the H-Back role, (rather than Kendricks), you are going to see Kendricks now being used as the TE. They are now forced to use Kendricks on different type of routes than they would be able to use Cook on. (drag routes as opposed to the deeper seam routes).

IF and WHEN Kendricks can perform as he has in the past as a FB/H-back, they can go back to the "plan" of having both he and Cook on the field together, and still be able to RUN THE BALL.

When this happens, they do exactly what you are saying they can do. Use them BOTH in the passing game, wile still being able to run the ball out of this formation when they want to.

Go back and watch the previous games when they tried to use Kendricks in this role (as they did last year). He looks lost. He either blocks the WRONG guy, or doesn't block anyone. I maintain this is a direct by product of him missing the entire training camp.
 

iced

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CoachO said:
iced said:
CoachO said:
I think the other factor in this whole equation is Kendricks NOT being up to par after missing the entire training camp. That they are forced to use Harkey in the FB/H-Back role, is telling to me. Kendricks just hasn't been playing at the same level in the running game to this point in the season.

:huh:

kendricks was out there with harkey (and probably more) at in line tight end, the position cook WAS playing...

Kendricks actually garnered more targets than cook last weekend


pretty sure their whole goal was to get Kendricks and cook as mismatches in 2 TE sets, with the defense not knowing what they're gonna do....but as far as we can tell, we can't run with cook in blocking....that's why it's kendricks and harkey, and not harkey and cook or kendricks and cook.

I understand blocking is an art, just like receiving - but some of these "blocking attempts" are just plain pathetic... and i'm sure that's who farr was talking about when just playing for money

That's my whole point. That they are being forced to use Harkey in the H-Back role, (rather than Kendricks), you are going to see Kendricks now being used as the TE. They are now forced to use Kendricks on different type of routes than they would be able to use Cook on. (drag routes as opposed to the deeper seam routes).

IF and WHEN Kendricks can perform as he has in the past as a FB/H-back, they can go back to the "plan" of having both he and Cook on the field together, and still be able to RUN THE BALL.

When this happens, they do exactly what you are saying they can do. Use them BOTH in the passing game, wile still being able to run the ball out of this formation when they want to.

Go back and watch the previous games when they tried to use Kendricks in this role (as they did last year). He looks lost. He either blocks the WRONG guy, or doesn't block anyone. I maintain this is a direct by product of him missing the entire training camp.

I think you're missing the point - Kendricks is in inline and out of the backfield because Cook is the weak link on blocking plays...that WAS cook's spot - but he Can't or refuses to block.

They used cook there in the dallas and niners game
 

CoachO

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iced said:
CoachO said:
iced said:
CoachO said:
I think the other factor in this whole equation is Kendricks NOT being up to par after missing the entire training camp. That they are forced to use Harkey in the FB/H-Back role, is telling to me. Kendricks just hasn't been playing at the same level in the running game to this point in the season.

:huh:

kendricks was out there with harkey (and probably more) at in line tight end, the position cook WAS playing...

Kendricks actually garnered more targets than cook last weekend


pretty sure their whole goal was to get Kendricks and cook as mismatches in 2 TE sets, with the defense not knowing what they're gonna do....but as far as we can tell, we can't run with cook in blocking....that's why it's kendricks and harkey, and not harkey and cook or kendricks and cook.

I understand blocking is an art, just like receiving - but some of these "blocking attempts" are just plain pathetic... and i'm sure that's who farr was talking about when just playing for money

That's my whole point. That they are being forced to use Harkey in the H-Back role, (rather than Kendricks), you are going to see Kendricks now being used as the TE. They are now forced to use Kendricks on different type of routes than they would be able to use Cook on. (drag routes as opposed to the deeper seam routes).

IF and WHEN Kendricks can perform as he has in the past as a FB/H-back, they can go back to the "plan" of having both he and Cook on the field together, and still be able to RUN THE BALL.

When this happens, they do exactly what you are saying they can do. Use them BOTH in the passing game, wile still being able to run the ball out of this formation when they want to.

Go back and watch the previous games when they tried to use Kendricks in this role (as they did last year). He looks lost. He either blocks the WRONG guy, or doesn't block anyone. I maintain this is a direct by product of him missing the entire training camp.

I think you're missing the point - Kendricks is in inline and out of the backfield because Cook is the weak link on blocking plays...that WAS cook's spot - but he Can't or refuses to block.

They used cook there in the dallas and niners game

I'm not missing that point,, Cook was NOT brought here to be an "in line" TE. Never has been throughout his career. Its pretty basic math. For all intents and purposes, he is a TE in name only. He is truly an oversized slot receiver, and thinking he is anything but that, is where fans get fooled.

Even with him and Kendricks on the field at the same time, with Cook used wide or in the slot, they will now be running against a SIX MAN BOX. If Kendricks was as productive as before as a lead blocker, they would be running against similar numbers, without the need for an in line TE.

That he hasn't, forces them to use Harkey. The alternative, IMO, would be to see packages where they have Harkey AND COOK on the field, and you would see the results on the running game they need.

The issue then becomes, Harkey vs. Kendricks as a threat in the passing game. And we both know where that goes.
 

CGI_Ram

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Sum1BTRthnU said:
Cook wasn't brought in to block.

The coaching staff isn't putting Austin or Cook in the right positions.

This was what was rolling through my head reading this thread.

First of all; it's too early to make any evaluation of Cook or Austin as players.

But... Schotty doesn't seem to know what to do with them. It's really weird, actually, because we targeted these players in the offseason for a reason. If I were to sum up my biggest frustration year to date it would be this.

(With a VERY close second seeing our "top-10 defense" near the bottom right now)

It's a coaching staff... but Fisher is the man. He's responsible to get these two areas straightened out!
 

jrry32

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CGI_Ram said:
Sum1BTRthnU said:
Cook wasn't brought in to block.

The coaching staff isn't putting Austin or Cook in the right positions.

This was what was rolling through my head reading this thread.

First of all; it's too early to make any evaluation of Cook or Austin as players.

But... Schotty doesn't seem to know what to do with them. It's really weird, actually, because we targeted these players in the offseason for a reason. If I were to sum up my biggest frustration year to date it would be this.

(With a VERY close second seeing our "top-10 defense" near the bottom right now)

It's a coaching staff... but Fisher is the man. He's responsible to get these two areas straightened out!

Schotty has his issues but Sam has missed Tavon a few times this year. And Tavon hasn't helped himself with the drops.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Coach O I don't think the running game would be good enough with even if Kendricks was playing at the same level as last year. The OLine is so bad in the running game that they will always need both Kendrick's and Harkey to block. This takes Cook off thre field too often, which sucks if you consider what they pay him.

I didn't like the signing of Cook. As usual Fisher felt that he could get more out of the player than Tennesse was. Cook is the same bit player he was there though and he is paid like a full time star.
 

fearsomefour

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CoachO said:
I think the other factor in this whole equation is Kendricks NOT being up to par after missing the entire training camp. That they are forced to use Harkey in the FB/H-Back role, is telling to me. Kendricks just hasn't been playing at the same level in the running game to this point in the season.

If and when he regains his game, and becomes the lead/wham blocker than Harkey is now being asked to be, it will make a huge difference in what personnel packages they can use.

Cook, being used as an "in line" TE was never going to be a big part of the plan. But when you break the huddle in that "12" package, it can create the mismatches they are looking for, by forcing teams to stay in their Base defense, now allowing Cook to be matched up on a LB.

Exactly right....really need to see some of these match ups.

But until that happens, you are going to see more of Kendricks on the drag routes, rather than Cook in the "seam" routes he can dominate in.

As far as having Austin and Cook on the field together, in the "11" personnel grouping, the issue is having Shottenheimer COMMIT to still trying to run the ball against the 6 man boxes, that everyone else seems to be able to exploit against OUR defense.

The continued attempts to use the check downs as a substitute for the running game just doesn't get it done.

Agree with the last two thoughts as well. Schotty really seems to not commit to the run at all. I know he stuck with it vs. the Jags....this week vs. Houston it will be needed more and tougher to stay commited to it. But, if the Rams dont do something to slow the passrush and create mismatches Bradford is going to get battered again.