Rapoport: Indications Are Fisher/Snead Safe For 2016

[jrry32]

"Well, he went for Foles...that was his call." Because there were tons of other options? Hell, ANY other options. Now signing Nick to a longer deal sure is an indictment.

Rainram, great post. I do have to say, though...there were other options. Ryan Fitzpatrick is having a strong year for the 9-5 Jets. He was traded for a Day 3 pick. Tyrod Taylor is having a strong year for the Bills. He was signed as a FA. Mike Glennon is currently sitting behind Jameis Winston but he had a good rookie year and was likely available for a pick on draft day. I won't get into Cutler since there were only rumors he was available. Same with Kirk Cousins.

And hell, maybe all those guys would have sucked here with the supporting cast we had. But there were other options. Would they have been better options? Impossible to evaluate...but after seeing the way Foles has played, I don't think the bar was set very high.

 

[RamFan503]

Well yes.



This right here is a pass IMO. He's got the say regarding players, not Snead. If he doesn't have a QB, and he doesn't have an OC, who else can we point to but the guy responsible for both? It's year 4, second franchise, over twenty years as a coach. How does a guy with that many contacts have a first year rookie OC who wasn't impressing anyone in his previous job as QB coach? I get he's had bad luck with Bradford. But that's the job.

I'm not giving him a pass here. Bottom line is that he is responsible for the players we have. But that's not the point being discussed.

 

[blue4]

I'm not giving him a pass here. Bottom line is that he is responsible for the players we have. But that's not the point being discussed.

It is the point being discussed. We've been talking about QBs and offense as reasons why he should stay or go. You said that that not having a QB who can hit the broad side of a barn has an effect on Fisher's decision making. I'm saying that player performance is not a valid excuse for a HC who selects the players. It seems very relevant to what's being discussed.

 

[-X-]

Rainram, great post. I do have to say, though...there were other options. Ryan Fitzpatrick is having a strong year for the 9-5 Jets. He was traded for a Day 3 pick. Tyrod Taylor is having a strong year for the Bills. He was signed as a FA. Mike Glennon is currently sitting behind Jameis Winston but he had a good rookie year and was likely available for a pick on draft day. I won't get into Cutler since there were only rumors he was available. Same with Kirk Cousins.

Which of those teams were willing to take Bradford + his contract and give up a 2nd round pick while simultaneously giving us a Pro Bowl QB?

 

[blackbart]

Rainram, great post. I do have to say, though...there were other options. Ryan Fitzpatrick is having a strong year for the 9-5 Jets. He was traded for a Day 3 pick. Tyrod Taylor is having a strong year for the Bills. He was signed as a FA. Mike Glennon is currently sitting behind Jameis Winston but he had a good rookie year and was likely available for a pick on draft day. I won't get into Cutler since there were only rumors he was available. Same with Kirk Cousins.

And hell, maybe all those guys would have sucked here with the supporting cast we had. But there were other options. Would they have been better options? Impossible to evaluate...but after seeing the way Foles has played, I don't think the bar was set very high.

The problem I see with the trade options is who else wanted Sam and his contract? So were Fitz and Glennon really options? Taylor is having a decent year, I wonder if he could have developed here? Is the rest of the Bills offense better than the Rams? I think he was really hitting the lottery and before this season no where near what Foles had done in 2013.

I hated the extension when it happened and even more after the way he imploded. I doubt there is any chance he ever comes back to 2013 levels that could have put the Rams over the top but once again he's a lot more Jaime Martin than Kurt Warner

 

[RamFan503]

It is the point being discussed. We've been talking about QBs and offense as reasons why he should stay or go. You said that that not having a QB who can hit the broad side of a barn has an effect on Fisher's decision making. I'm saying that player performance is not a valid excuse for a HC who selects the players. It seems very relevant to what's being discussed.

The point I was referring to however, was the micromanaging to the end of having Boras call almost all running plays once we got a big lead. If we had a QB that could be relied and/or had been in the system for more than a couple starts, that may not be as much the case. That was the context of not having a QB that could hit the broad side of a barn. It had nothing to do with giving him a pass on the fact that we haven't had that QB.

I will say though that all things considered, I am probably not as inclined as some to damn him for that when I look at the history of what has taken place here. And that is even with the fact that I said long before the Bradford trade that I thought Foles was not someone I wanted to see in horns because he simply was not very good. He thought Foles could be an answer. Or maybe he trusted his new QB guru that that was the case. Either way, the Foles decision and the decision to extend him is on him.

I just don't buy the argument that most coaches up 28-6 in the second half would keep passing the ball or NOT tell their OC to work the clock. Generally, that means taking the ball out of your QB's hands. With our current situation at QB it DEFINITELY means taking the ball out of his hands. Let's not forget that Case had one INT and had an almost sure pick 6 dropped right before the end of the half. I like what I've seen from Case so far but I am not inclined to put the game on his shoulders when we are up big like that and just need to take some counter punches to come away with the W.

 

[RamFan503]

Already brought that up. It factors in but it's not THE reason why. In 2012, Sam Bradford started all 16 games. What were our run/pass percentages in those situations?
2nd half leading by a TD or more - 68.3% run
4th quarter leading by a TD or more - 86.7% run

That's actually worse than our overall totals since 2012 when we had a QB.

It's Jeff Fisher.

Not arguing with you here. But where did you find that specific of stats? Do you have to pay for some site for those?

 

[Ramlock]

[QUOTE="jrry32, post: 684331, member: 572"



I don't know. Maybe the fact that the good OCs all turned him down this off-season.[/QUOTE]

A popular theory not supported

Good ones that we know he went after were prevented by their current team, like Chud.

 

[jrry32]

A popular theory not supported

Good ones that we know he went after were prevented by their current team, like Chud.

Actually, it is supported. Chud's contract expired a week after we requested an interview and were denied. He could have chosen to interview with the Rams. Instead, he chose to sign a new contract with the Colts.

Adam Gase refused to even interview here.

Alex Van Pelt was the only guy we were kept from interviewing.

The guys we went after, with the exception of Van Pelt, wanted nothing to do with us.

 

[jrry32]

The problem I see with the trade options is who else wanted Sam and his contract? So were Fitz and Glennon really options? Taylor is having a decent year, I wonder if he could have developed here? Is the rest of the Bills offense better than the Rams? I think he was really hitting the lottery and before this season no where near what Foles had done in 2013.

I hated the extension when it happened and even more after the way he imploded. I doubt there is any chance he ever comes back to 2013 levels that could have put the Rams over the top but once again he's a lot more Jaime Martin than Kurt Warner

The Browns offered us a first for Bradford.

Yes, Glennon and Fitz were options.(well, Glennon likely was an option) We trade Bradford to Philly or Cleveland and then make a trade for Fitz or Glennon.

Not arguing with you here. But where did you find that specific of stats? Do you have to pay for some site for those?

Pro Football Reference Play Index:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/

Use game play finder. The tools they have in their play index are amazing. I use them all the time.(player season finder is great too)

 

[RamFan503]

Pro Football Reference Play Index:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/

Use game play finder. The tools they have in their play index are amazing. I use them all the time.(player season finder is great too)

Thanks. I love that site. Didn't know they had that section though.

 

[Athos]

We are a QB away from having what Fisher wants (minus all the injuries). If they can't do it with a competent QB I'll be on board with bringing in a different guy. Until then changing the staff does nothing for me.

What makes you think acid her can spot let alone develop QB talent in his career? Not much.

I really wonder if folks would be behind a guy going for most career losses if he wasn't a Ram. We'd be laughing at his mediocrity instead of crying.

Bad luck, or what have you, I don't know how folks can put up with a HC where we could be lookin at 3 straight years of a worse record and even less competent offensive ability. It's insane.

 

[Ramlock]

Actually, it is supported. Chud's contract expired a week after we requested an interview and were denied. He could have chosen to interview with the Rams. Instead, he chose to sign a new contract with the Colts.

Adam Gase refused to even interview here.

Alex Van Pelt was the only guy we were kept from interviewing.

The guys we went after, with the exception of Van Pelt, wanted nothing to do with us.

Got any quotes from Gase saying he wouldn't coach with Fisher?

This stuff just gets thrown out as fact when it's not but keep this thread alive man. I admire your tenacity.

 

[jrry32]

Got any quotes from Gase saying he wouldn't coach with Fisher?

This stuff just gets thrown out as fact when it's not but keep this thread alive man. I admire your tenacity.

Yea, sure. I'll pull my call log. I was talking to him last January. The Rams wanted to interview him for the OC job. He refused. That says it all.

 

[-X-]

Yea, sure. I'll pull my call log. I was talking to him last January. The Rams wanted to interview him for the OC job. He refused. That says it all.

All it says is that he wanted to follow John Fox to Chicago.

 

[Rainram]

Rainram, great post. I do have to say, though...there were other options. Ryan Fitzpatrick is having a strong year for the 9-5 Jets. He was traded for a Day 3 pick. Tyrod Taylor is having a strong year for the Bills. He was signed as a FA. Mike Glennon is currently sitting behind Jameis Winston but he had a good rookie year and was likely available for a pick on draft day. I won't get into Cutler since there were only rumors he was available. Same with Kirk Cousins.

And hell, maybe all those guys would have sucked here with the supporting cast we had. But there were other options. Would they have been better options? Impossible to evaluate...but after seeing the way Foles has played, I don't think the bar was set very high.

All true. Not great options, but some options existed therein. The caveat, of course, was having an actual buyer for 'perceived-injury-plagued-Bradford', and perhaps more importantly what amounted to a hefty one contract.

At any rate, I would be willing to bet that Snead and the front office have fully been in Find a QB Mode. Color me interested in seeing what their decision is. This should be their biggest and most important evaluation effort and decision.

-Move up at a hefty price for one of the top 2?
-Take whoever is there at our pick? Cook?
-Take BPA in round 1 and hope a QB (Wentz) is there in the second?
-Make some trades on draft day (up or down) aiming for a second tier QB?
-Find a top tier Vet (Stafford, Brees, Cutler)?
-Find a middle tier Vet to compete with Mannion (and draft all BPAs and stockpile more talent but have a dicey QB situation again)?

And what do they do with Foles and his contract?

They've done well evaluating talent (especially top end players/1st round talent...Brockers, Ogletree, Donald, Austin, Gurley).

Me = opcorn: (where's the praying emoji)

 

[RamFan503]

Yea, sure. I'll pull my call log. I was talking to him last January. The Rams wanted to interview him for the OC job. He refused. That says it all.

How does that say it all? Because Gase chose to follow Fox to Chicago? What would have actually been surprising and damning to Fox is if he had decided to come interview for our OC opening when Fox no doubt had asked him to come with him. Y'know - Fox - the guy who promoted him to OC in the first place?

AS far as Chud went, he was offered a promotion to Assistant HC with Pagano. Hell - those two go back to college together. But where you are really stretching the facts is that by all accounts, the Colts and Chud had already come to an agreement and it was a mere formality waiting for him to sign on the dotted line. The Colts did indeed refuse us IIRR and his contract never actually lapsed but started as soon as the previous one ended or the contract year ended. Saying he didn't want to work for Fish is not born out by anything I have read. Do you have something more conclusive? You seem to be stating it as fact.

 

[jrry32]

All true. Not great options, but some options existed therein. The caveat, of course, was having an actual buyer for 'perceived-injury-plagued-Bradford', and perhaps more importantly what amounted to a hefty one contract.

We know of at least two teams willing to buy.(Philly and Cleveland)

All it says is that he wanted to follow John Fox to Chicago.

Gase was willing to interview for other jobs.

 

[jrry32]

How does that say it all? Because Gase chose to follow Fox to Chicago? What would have actually been surprising and damning to Fox is if he had decided to come interview for our OC opening when Fox no doubt had asked him to come with him. Y'know - Fox - the guy who promoted him to OC in the first place?

AS far as Chud went, he was offered a promotion to Assistant HC with Pagano. Hell - those two go back to college together. But where you are really stretching the facts is that by all accounts, the Colts and Chud had already come to an agreement and it was a mere formality waiting for him to sign on the dotted line. The Colts did indeed refuse us IIRR and his contract never actually lapsed but started as soon as the previous one ended or the contract year ended. Saying he didn't want to work for Fish is not born out by anything I have read. Do you have something more conclusive? You seem to be stating it as fact.

As I said, he was willing to interview for other jobs before choosing to go with Fox.

Chud chose to be a position coach rather than the Rams OC. And I didn't stretch any facts. His contract expired. The Colts couldn't keep him from interviewing. He chose not to.

Y'all are crazy if you think a NFL assistant is going to come out and say they will not work with a NFL head coach of 20+ years. There's no reason to put that out there. So no, I cannot give quotes of them saying they didn't want to work with Fisher. But actions speak louder than words. Fisher wanted both. They wanted nothing to do with the job.

 

[-X-]

Gase was willing to interview for other jobs.

That doesn't mean anything. Coordinators talk to other coaches all the time and often take a pass on the gig.
Even Schottenheimer was interviewing for other jobs while he was OC here.
Bottom line was, Gase wanted to follow John Fox to Chicago.