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Ranking true No. 1 pass-catchers

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by RFIP, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    When you're comparing two players in different situations that played during different time periods, focusing on stats(not what actually happened) as the infallible measure of performance does not work for me. It will get nowhere in a discussion with me.

    That would be the simple point. Would Welker be some forgettable nobody had he and Chrebet switched teams and time periods? IMO, yes. Outside of the slot, Welker was a solid to good #2. Which is what Chrebet was during his days...when the slot was not heavily utilized.

    That's the point. And it's why I don't think slot WRs are as valuable as a #1 WR nor would I consider one a #1 WR.

    What does similar attributes matter? A lot.

    Tom Brady in 2011
    401/611
    65.6%
    5235 yards
    8.6 YPA
    39 TDs
    12 Ints
    105.6 QB Rating

    Tom Brady in 2013
    380/628
    60.5%
    4343 yards
    6.9 YPA
    25 TDs
    11 Ints
    87.3 QB Rating

    Now, if we solely looked at the numbers, they'd tell us that Tom Brady became a worse QB over the one year that elapsed between those two years. Do you believe that? Or are there other important factors that statistics do not show or explain in the game of football?
     
    #101
  2. NJRamsFan Cocaine Cowboy

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    Look at your first point..."When you're comparing two players in different situations that played during different time periods" so they were in different time periods, different situations, and they're numbers aren't comparable. WHY THE HELL ARE WE COMPARING THEM THAN? They aren't comparable, thats the point.

    Would Welker be this if that happened or would Chrebet be that if this happened....IDK and neither do you. We can't argue hypotheticals bro...

    If Danny Amendola stayed healthy and played for the patriots and broncos he might be wes welker too.

    If Danario Alexander was healthy and on the patriots and broncos he might be Calvin Johnson.


    All of that is irrelevant because it is fiction.
     
    #102
  3. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    One of the guys. Not all of them. So no, it's not moot. In terms of Jordy Nelson, sure, it's a moot point. But for the other guys that don't have elite QBs, it's not a moot point.

    Nah. It's a great comparison. Do you consider a LT to be more valuable than a LG? If so, why?

    And then apply that to the WR position and see if there's a comparison.

    I just explained it. Welker got his concussion and sat out the rest of the year. It didn't negatively effect his play while on the field. Nelson was severely hampered by the hamstring and wasn't the same player. Which is why he missed games on and off throughout the rest of the year after injuring his hamstring.

    Again, you fail to consider things beyond stats.

    Out of the past 3 years, when they were healthy, Jordy Nelson was the better player. He's big, he's fast, he's a highly effective route runner, effortless mover, excellent body control, and has great hands. His ability to adjust to the football has made him lethal on back-shoulder throws from Rodgers. Plays like these:

    [​IMG]
    Nelson has developed into a great WR. He's very underrated.

    Okay. You go discuss that with the fantasy football guys out there. I prefer to discuss and analyze players. I prefer to talk football. What Nelson can do when healthy is what matters to me. Not what he does when he has a severely injured hamstring. Because we're discussing who the better player is. So I'm done with this discussion because I've had enough of the "these are the facts(stats)" bullcrap.

    If I wanted to look at a boxscore, I would. I was interested in hearing your unique perspective...not what ESPN.com told you. Good night.
     
    #103
  4. NJRamsFan Cocaine Cowboy

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    So it can't be used as a negative when addressing Welker saying he's a product of his offense/qb but not jordy nelson?



    Ill give you a better comparison. Do you think DeAngelo Hall is better than Richard Sherman? Sherman only covers one side of the field where as Hall is tasked with following the other teams best WR around all game which is clearly more difficult. If sherman were to do that he might be exposed a la Nnamdi Asamugha. So we must fault Sherman for succeeding at the easier version of cb as you fault welker for succeeding in the slot right? we can't consider him a Lockdown corner(#1 WR) because there are other guys doing things in a more difficult manner. Which is why I will say once again these generic labels are stupid.


    Okay, if we omit the two years that Welker, and Nelson suffered injuries in the only thing that changes is TDs and IMO that pretty much cancels out. Comparing there last 2 healthy seasons, Nelson has 7 more tds. Welker still has nearly 100 more catches and nearly 400 more yards.

    I am analyzing players. I just happen to think succeeding in a different way is not a fault. To me having success is more important than how or why you achieved that success.

    Hope theres no hard feelings man. From reading your posts since I've been here I've always thought you and have very similar styles when debating so it makes for a heated clash. But, thats how I talk with all my friends at home perhaps since I was raised in a family of lawyers lol. I can come off a bit abrasive but its not my intention, in fact I respect your opinion more than most.
     
    #104
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
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  5. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    NJRams, there's never any hard feelings. I don't hold grudges. Everyone has their opinion. Sometimes heated arguments happen. Only time I'd take things personally is if a poster went out of his way to insult me and bait me without me having said anything to him(happened on another board). (y)
     
    #105
    NJRamsFan likes this.