Rams want Tavon to be more like Desean Jackson

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Warner4Prez

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Anyone who thinks Austin isn't putting in the work is either not paying attention or flat out mistaken. The past few offseasons he's been working with the likes of Antonio Brown and Randy Moss. He's put the work in, no joke.
I think that's also a sign of the extension he earned. Would the FO really cut him that check based solely on 2015? Would they pay him that handsomely if he were going through the motions in practices, OTAs, film room ect.?

It may pain Rams fans that Austin has underperformed and been overpaid, but you don't get promoted like that in any line of work for just showing up. Especially not in the NFL.
 

majrleaged

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Tavon has had 2 major problems as a receiver. The offense sucks, we have stated all the ways, and short hard passes bounce off his hands like they are made out of wood. A good offense calling plays that take advantage of his strengths and he will earn his check.
 

Rams43

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It amazes me to see the Tavon loyalty and support, despite the statistical evidence that's been provided on multiple occasions.

His contract and his production are a league wide joke, fellas.

Look, it's not personal with me. And I hope that McVay can turn Tavon's career around. I really do.

But unless and until that happens, Tavon is best described as Fisher's Folly, as far as I'm concerned.
 

RamsSince1969

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If Tavon can just run his vertical butt off and take a corner and safety with him on every passing play, that's all we need. I don't care if he catches zero passes all year as long as he sells the deep route and takes 2 DBs with him to open up the middle for 3 or 4 other receivers. That's his true value. He will also get wide open when he does it about the 8th time in a game and they relax on him thinking Goff forgot about him.
 

So Ram

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It amazes me to see the Tavon loyalty and support, despite the statistical evidence that's been provided on multiple occasions.

His contract and his production are a league wide joke, fellas.

Look, it's not personal with me. And I hope that McVay can turn Tavon's career around. I really do.

But unless and until that happens, Tavon is best described as Fisher's Folly, as far as I'm concerned.

McVay likes playmakers & Tavon is just that.. It's just about putting him the right spots to be successful.
--His contract is a separate issue.
 

BonifayRam

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:snicker:I have no problem with this plan. Wish away! Do I think it will turn out positive? :thinking::notsure:Nope

When I try to put TA in the right position in this new offense with new modifications by our new HC & OC I still come up with this collection of pictures in my one brain cell. The Leatherman Tool. The problem since TA got here no one can figure out how to open up & get some good use of the darn thing before tossing it aside & go digging for the right tool.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...XW6vvTAhXG6iYKHRMxCqYQsAQIcA&biw=1920&bih=971

I am of the opinion if it were me I'm not going to waste my little time on all that figuring of how to get a down field threat out of TA. If TA was able to find himself running past a DB & gets open it will not matter because he can not catch it with very poor hands.

I'd toss it aside & work with our new cadre of wide outs & receivers. Much better prospects with good hands that would bring better results IMO would be Woods, Kupp, Reynolds & McRoberts.
 

LACHAMP46

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:snicker:I have no problem with this plan. Wish away! Do I think it will turn out positive? :thinking::notsure:Nope

When I try to put TA in the right position in this new offense with new modifications by our new HC & OC I still come up with this collection of pictures in my one brain cell. The Leatherman Tool. The problem since TA got here no one can figure out how to open up & get some good use of the darn thing before tossing it aside & go digging for the right tool.
https://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/19/nfl-alex-smith-patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs
6. I think Sean McVay is going to find out that Tavon Austin is best suited for the gadget receiver role he played under the old Rams regime, not the field-stretching, downfield role McVay envisions for the fifth-year receiver. As Numberfire.com notes, just 15 of Austin’s 181 career receptions have traveled more than 15 yards in the air. Even so, Austin struggled with drops in 2016 and too often catches passes in his chest rather than with his hands. Just a hunch: I don’t think L.A.’s deep threat of the McVay Era is on the roster yet.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/play...may-have-tough-transition-as-rams-deep-threat

Tavon Austin may have tough transition as Rams' deep threat
Los Angeles Rams wide receiver Tavon Austin has seen only 15 of his 181 career receptions travel more than 15 yards in the air.

WHAT IT MEANS:
New Rams head coach Sean McVay wants Austin to be more like DeSean Jackson in 2017, but
the supposed big-play threat has averaged 9.1 yards per catch for his career. His 2016 mark of 8.8 was third-to-last amongst wide receivers, and Jackson averaged literally twice as many yards per catch. Part of it has been Austin's usage, but the odds of him suddenly developing into a viable deep threat are slim.

Out of the 41 wide receivers to see 100-plus targets last season, Austin's 0.27 Reception Net Expected Points (NEP) per target were by far the least in the group. Next closest was Jeremy Kerley with 0.45 Reception NEP per target.


Source: Rotoworld.com
written by Joe Redemann on Monday, May 15th, 2017
 
Last edited:

jap

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I agree with that, but I suspect that the reason they weren't running him on too many deep routes is that he wasn't running them consistently.

I don't know if you can ever reinforce Austin's game with enough scheme that he's worth the contract given, but time will tell.

Tavon has his issues with his hands and focus (which I think is very natural for a little guy who defenders would love! to deliberately take out of the game as permanently as possible). Nevertheless, the prime reason he has not been going deep is because the Horns have lacked QB's who can find him deep on a consistent basis. Only two Rams QBs have had that capability in recent years, Sam Bradford and incumbent Jared Goff. Sam had the arm and accuracy but lacks Jared's touch, which refines accuracy even more and is almost necessary when one is trying to drop the rock into the hands of a tiny target amongst relative defending 'trees.' Jared found Tavon downtown last season for a score, a feat no other recent Rams QB outside Sam the ex-Ram could accomplish with any consistency.

If Sean McVay wants Tavon going deep, he is going to challenge Tavon to get much better beating the jam. This is especially critical for defenders because if Tavon gets behind his defending CB, it's very unlikely that CB will ever recover without help deep. If the CB is getting deep help from the FS, then chances are another WR/TE will be running free deep for Jared to rain hell on the secondary. Sean also has to somehow get Tavon to run crisper routes. Tavon already has some of the physical tools: he can make cuts on a dime at full speed, he can vary his speed & acceleration very quickly, etc. But can he begin almost every route as he did the last one? Can he fake CBs out if position with head feints? Can he sell his routes as though the rock is destined his way like Isaac used to, becoming an effective decoy for other teammates? Can he upgrade his hands to become a fairly solid receiving threat?

With dedication and practice this guy can get open fairly consistently. When he gets open he doesn't have to have great hands, just solid ones. I really think he will become a defensive nightmare when he has effective pieces around him (e.g., Robert Woods, Cooper Kupp, Josh Reynolds, Higbee, Gerald Everett, Todd, etc.) who are drawing attention of their own and preventing NFL DCs from keying on Tavon as strongly as they would prefer to do.
 

psxpaul

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I think this is just them giving him one last chance to earn that contract. He's too expensive to cut this year, and gadget players aren't worth that much money. They drafted Reynolds to be the deep threat if Tavon doesn't work out, and they're already trying other guys at punt returner. Dunbar will be the change of pace rb. They can get a more reliable slot guy to move the chains for far cheaper (and he's probably already on the roster).

They're trying Tavon as a deep threat because that's the only place he even has a shot at fitting.
 

Memphis Ram

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Anyone else notice that most of the negatives being attributed to Tavon succeeding as a deep threat could and can be attributed to Tedd Ginn.

Tavon has his issues with his hands and focus (which I think is very natural for a little guy who defenders would love! to deliberately take out of the game as permanently as possible). Nevertheless, the prime reason he has not been going deep is because the Horns have lacked QB's who can find him deep on a consistent basis.


tenor.gif
 
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Snaz

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Does anyone really think Desean Jackson would have been Desean Jackson had he been wearing horns the last few years??
Absolutely! His name is DeSean Jackson, so why woul;d he be DeSean Jackson.
But if you mean his play in Horns would be similar to number he put up elsewhere, no way.
 

Snaz

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Tavon will have Woods as a Mentor for learning running routes... Who did he have before?
 

dieterbrock

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Absolutely! His name is DeSean Jackson, so why woul;d he be DeSean Jackson.
But if you mean his play in Horns would be similar to number he put up elsewhere, no way.
Got a good laugh out of that one. Thanks man!
 

LACHAMP46

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http://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/14893/can-tavon-austin-develop-into-the-rams-deep-threat
Can Tavon Austin Develop Into the Rams’ Deep Threat?

Joe Redemann — @JayArrNFL Jun 1st, 2017

We were often told as kids that television would “rot your brain” and that nothing good would come from technology. I have to say, though, I have learned a lot about life, work, and love from watching television -- specifically the show How I Met Your Mother.

Neil Patrick Harris’s character, Barney Stinson, imparts useful and sometimes crude life lessons to his friends, but the best advice the show has given is simple. One episode, for instance, shows the disappointment fallout of ridiculous expectations -- helping the audience to understand that sometimes things just are what they are, and that’s okay.

I wish the Los Angeles Rams and coach Sean McVay would have learned a little more from TV, because they are really barking up the wrong tree by trying to turn slot receiver Tavon Austin into a deep threat.

Can the Rams surpass “the possimpible” with Austin’s role conversion, or will this effort just be a slap in the face?

Challenge Accepted
It’s no secret that the Rams need to develop some sort of deep passing threat in their offense. Per Pro Football Reference, the 2016 Rams attempted the second-fewest passes 20 yards or more downfield of any team, completing them at a middle-of-the-pack 38.2 percent first-down rate and giving up the fifth-most interceptions on them.

When going deep, Los Angeles has been mediocre at best and awful at worst.

Part of that is on the quarterback talent they had -- Case Keenum doesn’t inspire fear in anyone and Jared Goff has a long way to go -- but they also haven’t had wide receivers with the skillset to really do much long. Last year, the two receivers targeted downfield at the highest rate were Brian Quick -- who had a career catch rate below 50 percent up until the 2016 season -- and Kenny Britt, whose possession receiver profile should not be seeing 31.1 percent of his targets deep over the last three years.

This offseason both Quick and Britt walked in free agency, and the Rams replaced them with former Buffalo Bills possession receiver Robert Woods(12.1 career yards per reception; league average is 13.2) and rookie Cooper Kupp -- a Jordan Matthews-type wideout, only slightly smaller, much slower, and way less explosive.

Enter Tavon Austin.

Rabbit or Duck
Tavon may share the same last name as the protagonist of “The Six Million Dollar Man,” but Sean McVay has clearly been watching too much of the wrong show. According to interviews from OTA’s, McVay thinks we have the technology to rebuild the diminutive slot receiver and make him “better than he was before.”

He might be lucky to get to a six-dollar bid in fantasy auctions this year, let alone live up to his sort-of-namesake.

Still, McVay has insisted that Austin has the chops to convert from a gadget player and part-time speed slot to a DeSean Jackson-like vertical option. He sure has the physical comparison nailed, as D-Jax and John Brown are Austin’s best matches on MockDraftable based on their NFL Combine performances.

Measurable Austin __Jackson__ Brown
Height_____ 5' 8"___ 5' 10"_ 5' 10"
Weight ___174 lbs ___169 lbs ___179 lbs
Arm Length _30" _____29¾"_____ 30½"
Hand Size __9⅛"_____ 9⅜" ______8½"
10-Yard Split_ 1.45s___ 1.53s _____1.5s
40-Yard Dash_ 4.34s___ 4.35s ____4.34s
Vertical Jump _32" ____34½" ______36½"
Broad Jump __120" ____120" _____119"
3-Cone ____N/A ______6.82s _____6.91s
Short Shuttle__ 4.01s___ 4.19s ____4.12s

Tavon is about as perfect a physical clone for these two deep threats as you could draw up. So why are we so sour on his chances of becoming something more than he is right now?

When we pick apart Austin’s production from an analytical standpoint, it doesn’t look great. Using numberFire’s Net Expected Points (NEP) metric, we can check out Austin’s true efficiency and effectiveness. NEP is a metric which describes the contribution a play (or player) makes to their team’s chances of scoring. By adding down-and-distance value to the box score, we can see just how much each play and each team as a whole influence the outcome of games. (For more info on NEP, check out our glossary.)

Let’s look at the basics: in 2016, Tavon Austin created 0.27 Reception NEP per target on 106 looks in the passing game. That was by far the worst such rate for a receiver with at least 100 targets among the 619 such receivers to match that workload since 2000. His 65.52 percent Reception Success Rate (the percent of catches a receiver converts into a positive NEP gain) was by far the worst such rate in this metric.

It goes beyond last year, though. A player with a career yards per reception of 9.07 should have a much better Success Rate and catch rate, since it’s a lot harder to mess up a three-yard pass than a 20-yard pass. Austin’s career catch rate of 57.3 percent is ridiculous when compared to the league’s 68.5 percent mark on short targets in the last five years. In fact, no other wide receiver has had a career yards per reception lower than Austin on as many targets in the 25 years since targets have been tracked.

Austin has been gloriously ineffective and tremendously inefficient -- not only being relegated to a low-value, short-yardage role (which he was), not only having bad quarterback play (which he did), but also proving unable to create tiny amounts of value regularly. But it gets worse.

Sorry, Bro
The best way to isolate a player’s value by Reception NEP is to look at how they stack up compared to other pass catchers in their own offense. I compared each wide receiver's Reception NEP per target, catch rate, and Success Rate to their team average for wide receivers, which gives us context about the player in their specific offense. The table below shows Austin’s production and rankings among the 41 wideouts to top 100 targets last year in these metrics.

Team-Adjusted Rec NEP/Target Rank Catch Rate Rank Rec Success Rate Rank
Tavon Austin -0.25 41st -2.73% 33rd -10.16% 41st

The Rams had the league's worst offense by adjusted Passing NEP per play last year in a scheme that favored short throws, so adjusting receiver production for team should help nudge Tavon's value up a little bit; but even when we grade Austin on this curve, he still looks terrible.

Let's give him another benefit of the doubt and say we eliminate all the deep threat players entirely when we consider Austin's 2016 season. Just comparing him to other receivers with similarly low-value roles (by per-catch Reception NEP), he comes in 28th, 22nd, and 22nd (respectively) out of 30 receivers in the same three metrics as above.

Austin just isn't going to be an effective deep threat if he cannot consistently catch throws from the easiest spots on the field. While a deeper role will certainly offer him more per-play value in Reception NEP, his inability to make plays in a short-yardage role gives me concerns about his ability to both secure the ball and do anything with it, no matter how far downfield he's thrown at.

Tavon Austin was a questionable pick for the Rams when they selected him in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft. He was a questionable extension candidate last year when lame duck coach Jeff Fisher dropped a six-year, $56.1 million contract in his lap last August. Los Angeles needs to stop expecting a “happily ever after” finale from this saga: Tavon simply is what he is.
 

Memphis Ram

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http://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/14893/can-tavon-austin-develop-into-the-rams-deep-threat
Can Tavon Austin Develop Into the Rams’ Deep Threat?

Joe Redemann — @JayArrNFL Jun 1st, 2017

We were often told as kids that television would “rot your brain” and that nothing good would come from technology. I have to say, though, I have learned a lot about life, work, and love from watching television -- specifically the show How I Met Your Mother.

Neil Patrick Harris’s character, Barney Stinson, imparts useful and sometimes crude life lessons to his friends, but the best advice the show has given is simple. One episode, for instance, shows the disappointment fallout of ridiculous expectations -- helping the audience to understand that sometimes things just are what they are, and that’s okay.

I wish the Los Angeles Rams and coach Sean McVay would have learned a little more from TV, because they are really barking up the wrong tree by trying to turn slot receiver Tavon Austin into a deep threat.

Can the Rams surpass “the possimpible” with Austin’s role conversion, or will this effort just be a slap in the face?

Challenge Accepted
It’s no secret that the Rams need to develop some sort of deep passing threat in their offense. Per Pro Football Reference, the 2016 Rams attempted the second-fewest passes 20 yards or more downfield of any team, completing them at a middle-of-the-pack 38.2 percent first-down rate and giving up the fifth-most interceptions on them.

When going deep, Los Angeles has been mediocre at best and awful at worst.

Part of that is on the quarterback talent they had -- Case Keenum doesn’t inspire fear in anyone and Jared Goff has a long way to go -- but they also haven’t had wide receivers with the skillset to really do much long. Last year, the two receivers targeted downfield at the highest rate were Brian Quick -- who had a career catch rate below 50 percent up until the 2016 season -- and Kenny Britt, whose possession receiver profile should not be seeing 31.1 percent of his targets deep over the last three years.

This offseason both Quick and Britt walked in free agency, and the Rams replaced them with former Buffalo Bills possession receiver Robert Woods(12.1 career yards per reception; league average is 13.2) and rookie Cooper Kupp -- a Jordan Matthews-type wideout, only slightly smaller, much slower, and way less explosive.

Enter Tavon Austin.

Rabbit or Duck
Tavon may share the same last name as the protagonist of “The Six Million Dollar Man,” but Sean McVay has clearly been watching too much of the wrong show. According to interviews from OTA’s, McVay thinks we have the technology to rebuild the diminutive slot receiver and make him “better than he was before.”

He might be lucky to get to a six-dollar bid in fantasy auctions this year, let alone live up to his sort-of-namesake.

Still, McVay has insisted that Austin has the chops to convert from a gadget player and part-time speed slot to a DeSean Jackson-like vertical option. He sure has the physical comparison nailed, as D-Jax and John Brown are Austin’s best matches on MockDraftable based on their NFL Combine performances.

Measurable Austin __Jackson__ Brown
Height_____ 5' 8"___ 5' 10"_ 5' 10"
Weight ___174 lbs ___169 lbs ___179 lbs
Arm Length _30" _____29¾"_____ 30½"
Hand Size __9⅛"_____ 9⅜" ______8½"
10-Yard Split_ 1.45s___ 1.53s _____1.5s
40-Yard Dash_ 4.34s___ 4.35s ____4.34s
Vertical Jump _32" ____34½" ______36½"
Broad Jump __120" ____120" _____119"
3-Cone ____N/A ______6.82s _____6.91s
Short Shuttle__ 4.01s___ 4.19s ____4.12s

Tavon is about as perfect a physical clone for these two deep threats as you could draw up. So why are we so sour on his chances of becoming something more than he is right now?

When we pick apart Austin’s production from an analytical standpoint, it doesn’t look great. Using numberFire’s Net Expected Points (NEP) metric, we can check out Austin’s true efficiency and effectiveness. NEP is a metric which describes the contribution a play (or player) makes to their team’s chances of scoring. By adding down-and-distance value to the box score, we can see just how much each play and each team as a whole influence the outcome of games. (For more info on NEP, check out our glossary.)

Let’s look at the basics: in 2016, Tavon Austin created 0.27 Reception NEP per target on 106 looks in the passing game. That was by far the worst such rate for a receiver with at least 100 targets among the 619 such receivers to match that workload since 2000. His 65.52 percent Reception Success Rate (the percent of catches a receiver converts into a positive NEP gain) was by far the worst such rate in this metric.

It goes beyond last year, though. A player with a career yards per reception of 9.07 should have a much better Success Rate and catch rate, since it’s a lot harder to mess up a three-yard pass than a 20-yard pass. Austin’s career catch rate of 57.3 percent is ridiculous when compared to the league’s 68.5 percent mark on short targets in the last five years. In fact, no other wide receiver has had a career yards per reception lower than Austin on as many targets in the 25 years since targets have been tracked.

Austin has been gloriously ineffective and tremendously inefficient -- not only being relegated to a low-value, short-yardage role (which he was), not only having bad quarterback play (which he did), but also proving unable to create tiny amounts of value regularly. But it gets worse.

Sorry, Bro
The best way to isolate a player’s value by Reception NEP is to look at how they stack up compared to other pass catchers in their own offense. I compared each wide receiver's Reception NEP per target, catch rate, and Success Rate to their team average for wide receivers, which gives us context about the player in their specific offense. The table below shows Austin’s production and rankings among the 41 wideouts to top 100 targets last year in these metrics.

Team-Adjusted Rec NEP/Target Rank Catch Rate Rank Rec Success Rate Rank
Tavon Austin -0.25 41st -2.73% 33rd -10.16% 41st

The Rams had the league's worst offense by adjusted Passing NEP per play last year in a scheme that favored short throws, so adjusting receiver production for team should help nudge Tavon's value up a little bit; but even when we grade Austin on this curve, he still looks terrible.

Let's give him another benefit of the doubt and say we eliminate all the deep threat players entirely when we consider Austin's 2016 season. Just comparing him to other receivers with similarly low-value roles (by per-catch Reception NEP), he comes in 28th, 22nd, and 22nd (respectively) out of 30 receivers in the same three metrics as above.

Austin just isn't going to be an effective deep threat if he cannot consistently catch throws from the easiest spots on the field. While a deeper role will certainly offer him more per-play value in Reception NEP, his inability to make plays in a short-yardage role gives me concerns about his ability to both secure the ball and do anything with it, no matter how far downfield he's thrown at.

Tavon Austin was a questionable pick for the Rams when they selected him in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft. He was a questionable extension candidate last year when lame duck coach Jeff Fisher dropped a six-year, $56.1 million contract in his lap last August. Los Angeles needs to stop expecting a “happily ever after” finale from this saga: Tavon simply is what he is.

Seems like a major waste of time to used numbers of a player used a certain way to determine whether or not he could be successful if used another way.
 

LACHAMP46

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Seems like a major waste of time to used numbers of a player used a certain way to determine whether or not he could be successful if used another way.
I think the author just wanted to compare similar players....and come to some conclusions that many have already stated. The thread is, "rams want Tavon to be more like D-Jax"....and ole Joe Redeman says it aint so..He listed several stats to back up his argument..Debating 101....You either agree or you don't. I'd like to see the actual # of deep passes attempted to Tavon....Greater than 15 yards...Other than that...pretty straight forward, if he has trouble catching short passes, how's he gonna do with longer/tougher throws?
 

Snaz

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I do recall Tavon on having success on a couple of deep throws. I also recall some drops and deflected passes. He has to have more separation and an accurate QB with a big arm because of his size. He loses when he has to fight for the ball in the air.
 

So Ram

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I think the author just wanted to compare similar players....and come to some conclusions that many have already stated. The thread is, "rams want Tavon to be more like D-Jax"....and ole Joe Redeman says it aint so..He listed several stats to back up his argument..Debating 101....You either agree or you don't. I'd like to see the actual # of deep passes attempted to Tavon....Greater than 15 yards...Other than that...pretty straight forward, if he has trouble catching short passes, how's he gonna do with longer/tougher throws?

I'd like to think Tavon can still be coached up.If the QB has more time & he can extend pressure it will just make TA that much more dangerous. He can take it to the house when given space.
 

RamDino

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Does anyone really think Desean Jackson would have been Desean Jackson had he been wearing horns the last few years??

Well, Josh Gordon didn't have any problems with the Cleveland QB's throwing his way. Neither did Kenny Britt last year, and a lot of Britt's receptions were long balls.. Tavon might be a better running back than Desean Jackson, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking Tavon will EVER become a #1 WR like Jackson. JMHO