Rams searching for the next Earl Thomas/PD

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RamBill

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Rams searching for the next Earl Thomas
• By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_8913f5e5-16c0-5883-8e82-4e9bdc72e007.html

In what is both a copycat league and a passing league, everyone seems to be looking for the next Earl Thomas.

“Because we’ve become a pass-first league, teams are looking more and more for that free safety that can cover, that has more range, that can possibly drop down and cover a slot without having to go to a nickel (back),” NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said.

After helping Seattle win the Super Bowl in dominating fashion over Denver, Thomas has taken his place as the best free safety in the NFL. Count the Rams among those teams that want a guy like that.

“You look at Earl Thomas, you look at the money the Saints paid Jairus Byrd (in free agency) – there’s a demand for that,” said former Rams draft pick Matt Bowen of the Bleacher Report.

Bowen knows better than most. Not only did he play safety in the NFL, he did so for new Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams when both were with Washington.

“With Gregg’s defense, that free safety, they move him around a lot,” Bowen said. “They’re very creative. The free safety plays multiple roles. He’s playing the deep pass. He’s playing the deep middle. He’ll roll up to the line of scrimmage. But he’s a middle-of-the-field guy.”

Among other things, that means a free safety in Williams’ system ideally must have the range to cover seam routes to tight ends and provide help for cornerbacks defending post patterns to wide receivers.

“If you look at the other spot, the strong safety in Gregg’s defense has to blitz,” Bowen continued. “That’s what I played for Gregg in ’04 and ’05 with Washington. The first game of Gregg’s tenure in Washington, I think I blitzed nine or 10 times. In one game.”

Presumably, that role will be filled by T.J. McDonald, who emerged as the chosen one from the Rams’ safety search of 2013. The Rams took McDonald in the third round, and after a slow start that included six games missed with a fractured leg, McDonald came on strong over the final third of the season.

Now the Rams are looking again for a safety, this time to pair with McDonald. Not unlike the search that led to McDonald, it has been difficult to get a bead on who the Rams are looking at this time around. They had formal interviews at the NFL scouting combine with Alabama’s Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Louisville’s Calvin Pryor, generally considered the top two safeties in the draft.

But it’s not known if either paid a “top 30” visit to Rams Park or went through a private workout with the team.

“Clinton-Dix is the best safety in the class,” Bowen said. “The reason I say that is because he’s a free safety. Calvin Pryor’s a downhill player. I’m not saying he can’t play the middle of the field because he can. He’s got good hands, too.”

But just about everyone views Pryor as a strong safety. Clinton-Dix and Pryor look like sure first-rounders – and sure top-20 picks. Northern Illinois’ Jimmie Ward and perhaps Washington State’s Deone Bucannon could crack the first round as well.

At 6-1, 211, Bucannon has a hard-hitting style more suited to strong safety, but there are those who think he could transition to free safety in the NFL. Ward, on the other hand, was listed as a strong safety at Northern Illinois but played all over the field for the Huskies – like a free safety.

“Ward’s another guy that Gregg would like because of his versatility,” Bowen said. “He played nickel, he played dime. He played in the deep middle of the field. He played off the numbers in Cover 2.”

And he made plays, averaging 100 tackles a season in his three years as a starter. Last season, he had seven interceptions, 10 pass breakups and a sack. OK, he played in the Mid-American Conference. But in the Orange Bowl following the 2012 season, he did have 14 tackles against Florida State.

Undersized at 5-11, 193, Ward ran in the mid 4.4s in the 40 at his pro day even though he subsequently needed what was described as minor surgery for a foot injury.

This is not regarded as a deep draft at the safety position, so teams looking for a free safety that projects as rookie starter probably should pull the trigger in the second round – certainly no later than the third.

One of the last intriguing early-round names at free safety is Terrence Brooks of Florida State.

“Any team that wants to take a chance on me won’t be disappointed,” Brooks says.

Brooks has Ward-like size (5-11, 198) but is even faster. In fact, Brooks’ 4.42 speed at the combine was the fastest among safeties. (Ward didn’t run in Indianapolis because of the foot injury.)

“Brooks really impressed me at the Senior Bowl,” Bowen said. “He’s got great transition speed. He comes out of his (backpedal) with a lot of speed, a lot of acceleration.”
 

RamBill

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Draft nuggets: defensive backs
• By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_cf0ddc9d-62cf-5747-8892-e97ad462ca3d.html

CREAM OF THE CROP

Player Pos. School Ht. Wt.

Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State 6-0 202

Has catch-up speed (4.37) to overcome rookie mistakes; also a dangerous return man.

Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State 5-11 199

Thorpe Award winner not as fast as Gilbert but looks like better football player on tape.

Ha Ha Clinton-Dix S Alabama 6-1 208

Can play free or strong, but was more productive in 2012 when using range to play back end.

Calvin Pryor S Louisville 5-11 207

Big hitter projects more as SS; knocked opponents out of game in 3 games last season.

Kyle Fuller CB Virginia Tech 6-0 190

Aggressive, instinctive, versatile (can play slot); fully recovered from sports hernia surgery.

DON’T OVERLOOK

Dion Bailey (S), Southern Cal; Terrence Brooks (S), Florida State; Deone Bucannon (S), Washington State; Lamarcus Joyner (CB/S), Florida State; Bradley Roby (CB), Ohio State; Jason Verrett (CB), TCU; Jimmie Ward (S), Northern Illinois.

LOCAL LINE

With his size and ball skills, Lindenwood CB Pierre Desir (Francis Howell Central HS) could be a third-round pick; Missouri CB E.J. Gaines looks like a middle-round pick; Utah State S Mo Alexander (Eureka HS) projects as a late-rounder.

FUN FACT

Fuller has two older brothers with NFL experience. Currently out of football, S Vincent Fuller played six seasons for Tennessee and split a seventh between New England and Detroit; WR Corey Fuller is on Detroit’s practice squad. All three Fullers played for Virginia Tech.

QUOTABLE

“CP is a rare player. He plays fast. He’s always around the ball. He can hit. He’s a physical person. So if I compare myself, I’d just say I’m very quick. I can’t say I can hit like him, because he’s a big hitter.” – Clinton-Dix, on Pryor.

RAMS’ NEEDS

Secondary is a major need area that the team failed to address in free agency. The search is on for a starting free safety and a nickel back. After releasing Cortland Finnegan, the Rams have Janoris Jenkins, Trumaine Johnson, Brandon McGee and their fingers crossed. At safety, T.J. McDonald and Rodney McLeod head a very young group.

RATING THE FIELD

There could easily be six or seven DBs taken in the first round, but perhaps none in the top 10. The cornerback position looks especially deep, with starting-caliber talent available in Rounds 2 and 3. The safety position isn’t as deep.

– Jim Thomas
 

brokeu91

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Yeah, the Rams and just about every other team is searching for the next Earl Thomas
 

Alan

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"With Gregg’s defense, that free safety, they move him around a lot,” Bowen said. “They’re very creative. The free safety plays multiple roles. He’s playing the deep pass. He’s playing the deep middle. He’ll roll up to the line of scrimmage. But he’s a middle-of-the-field guy.
When you listen to JT talk about how Williams plays his safeties you quickly come to the realization that the BS about there being no distinction between the safeties will be a thing of the past. Of course I've been saying that wasn't how Fisher has been using his safeties even before we got Williams. Any coach would like to have safeties that are interchangeable and able to handle the duties of a SS and a FS. Duh!

It is completely obvious to me that under Williams we needs a FS. Not any safety, a free safety. When you're trying to figure out which safety you'd like us to draft in you own mocks, he'd better have all the qualities of a FS and not those of a SS. We don't have that player on our team now and I'm pretty sure that getting one is a high priority. Williams D can't survive without one IMO.
 

Alan

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Memphis Ram with part of the story:
Williams says that he adapts his defense to the personnel on hand.
On the margins Memphis. This is the third article I've read that all say the same thing, the FS is the key element required to allow him to run any version of his D.
 

Memphis Ram

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On the margins Memphis. This is the third article I've read that all say the same thing, the FS is the key element required to allow him to run any version of his D.

It's probably the 2nd or 3rd I've seen, too. It's just that Bowen has always been the person quoted. No doubt the position is important though.

I just wonder what differences we are going to see as Williams has even admitted that he's always had to manufacture pressure elsewhere.
 

Alan

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Memphis Ram with tunnel vision:
It's probably the 2nd or 3rd I've seen, too. It's just that Bowen has always been the person quoted. No doubt the position is important though.

I just wonder what differences we are going to see as Williams has even admitted that he's always had to manufacture pressure elsewhere.
I disagree that it's always Bowen who is being quoted. Although who knows how much influence he has on other people's thinking. I've heard it being said by Williams himself. I believe that you're also ignoring, or not taking seriously enough, what Mayock said in the same article.
“Because we’ve become a pass-first league, teams are looking more and more for that free safety that can cover, that has more range, that can possibly drop down and cover a slot without having to go to a nickel (back),”
That statement is true for every team no matter who the DC is IMO. A big hitter at SS is great against the run game but in todays NFL you almost need a CB/S hybrid. If you read Ewe's post that dealt with, among other things, the impact of the run game on a team's success, you'll see even more of what I'm talking about. Safeties are starting to get the big bucks and it's because of the evolution of the NFL.
 

BonifayRam

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I would not begin to argue against the need for a smart fast ranging ball hawk of a safety. It would seem that GW has two young safeties who fit the description of a up close strong safety type in McDonald & Matt Daniels. The other two safeties McLeod & Davis are closer to the deep safety types. I know we have covered this territory before but the draft keeps bringing this area back up over and over again.

We recently did a poll on this & most believe that the CB is far more likely to be taken way before a safety..I agree of course I am not sure how this will play out but taking any safety @ 1.13 is highly doubtful IMO. I would tend to think that Fisher & GW would like to see Rodney McLeod & Cody Davis get a fair shot at this GW guardian safety post. Using the 2013 season as a judge against Rodney as a starter is a bit unfair in my book & the reason for that is obvious he played mostly Nickleback.

What I see Snead doing is going in the direction of some safety prospects like Kenny Ladler using a 5th rder or a Ed Reynolds with a 6th rder and a Alden Darby in the 7th rd. If a Terrance Brooks was still on the board in the 3rd @ #75 Snead might move on him but I consider that even questionable. Snead needs CB's more than he needs safeties. Snead & Fisher needed a safety much worse last yr but do you recall what they did ? Waited & did not reach with McDonald I would expect the same unless Clinton Dix or Prior drops to them @ #44.
 

den-the-coach

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IMO Rams will select a Safety in round two and if that comes to fruition, it will be Washington State’s Deone Bucannon! Just seems like the right fit and if notBucannon then it will be USC's Dian Bailey as Fisher goes back to his alma mater.
 

NJRamsFan

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Every team that's not Seattle is looking for the next earl Thomas
 

Warner4Prez

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The hype for Ha-Ha seems to have quieted down. Looks like a good player, but I can't help but wonder if the lack of depth that that position has pushed him way up draft boards?

Not sure if I'd take him before any of the big 3 tackles (Matthews, Robinson, Lewan), but if he were there at 13, I'd be inclined to pull the trigger.
 

Alan

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Cosell calls him the best DB in the draft. Not the best safety, the best DB. So there's that. I like him quite a bit although I wasn't able to look at any CBs so I have no clue how he compares to guys like Dennard and Gilbert. I did look at safeties and he tops my list at safety by quite a bit. I'm not a huge fan of Pryor.
 

Warner4Prez

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Cosell calls him the best DB in the draft. Not the best safety, the best DB. So there's that. I like him quite a bit although I wasn't able to look at any CBs so I have no clue how he compares to guys like Dennard and Gilbert. I did look at safeties and he tops my list at safety by quite a bit. I'm not a huge fan of Pryor.
Yeah I just get the impression that it's kind of supply and demand with Safety this year. QB too for that matter, but that one doesn't affect this team as much.
 

Alan

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Warner4Prez thinking supply and demand:
Yeah I just get the impression that it's kind of supply and demand with Safety this year. QB too for that matter, but that one doesn't affect this team as much.
I think that's going to affect where he's taken but since Cosell is comparing him with CBs too, I don't think it has much to do with his abilities. Unless you don't like any of the CBs either. There's something to be said about that view. While this draft is very deep in CBs it's not very high. I don't see a shut down corner at all.
 

Memphis Ram

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I disagree that it's always Bowen who is being quoted. Although who knows how much influence he has on other people's thinking. I've heard it being said by Williams himself. I believe that you're also ignoring, or not taking seriously enough, what Mayock said in the same article.
“Because we’ve become a pass-first league, teams are looking more and more for that free safety that can cover, that has more range, that can possibly drop down and cover a slot without having to go to a nickel (back),”
That statement is true for every team no matter who the DC is IMO. A big hitter at SS is great against the run game but in todays NFL you almost need a CB/S hybrid. If you read Ewe's post that dealt with, among other things, the impact of the run game on a team's success, you'll see even more of what I'm talking about. Safeties are starting to get the big bucks and it's because of the evolution of the NFL.

But, the articles and tweets that I've read have quoted Bowen.

And I understand the view of Mayock has presented. But, what teams are looking for and what they can find can be two different things altogether. In other words, what may be considered ideal isn't always practical.
 

Alan

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Memphis Ram forgetting about the draft:
And I understand the view of Mayock has presented. But, what teams are looking for and what they can find can be two different things altogether. In other words, what may be considered ideal isn't always practical.
Here's the title of this thread:
"Rams searching for the next Earl Thomas/PD"
So while it's true that you have to work with what you have, it's also true that we're searching for that FS I'm talking about in the draft. In addition, why would the Rams hire someone they obviously coveted and not try to play to his strength? Fisher knows what Williams needs to run his D and I've no doubt he's looking to get those parts. Everything needs to be taken in context Memphis. :)
 

Memphis Ram

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Here's the title of this thread:
"Rams searching for the next Earl Thomas/PD"
So while it's true that you have to work with what you have, it's also true that we're searching for that FS I'm talking about in the draft. In addition, why would the Rams hire someone they obviously coveted and not try to play to his strength? Fisher knows what Williams needs to run his D and I've no doubt he's looking to get those parts. Everything needs to be taken in context Memphis. :)

Saw the title and Mayock's comments. But, they may not be searching for the next Earl Thomas? They could very well be searching for the next Ed Reed? Makes more sense to me given the Williams openly states that he plays his safeties deeper than anyone. Either way, chances are VERY GOOD that neither one of them are in this draft class. BTW, they might even be searching for the next Marcus Robertson whom played with Williams for so many years with the Titans.

Williams strength has been manufacturing pressure and confusing QBs. And this has been done successfully with the late great Sean Taylor (Redskins), a solid Marcus Robertson (Titans), and a servicable Izell Reese (Bills). But, again, he's stated this is the first time where he may not have to manufacture so much pressure due to the DLine talent on hand. Will they address safety in this draft? Sure. But, Williams has already proven that he can build a stout defense without a stud at the position.
 

Memphis Ram

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BTW IMO, the best way to find the next Earl Thomas in this draft is to look for a cerebral CB that can be moved to Safety. Won't happen immediately, but as he continues to grow who knows? Worked for Byrd.
 

Alan

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Memphis Ram forgetting what Williams himself said:
Williams strength has been manufacturing pressure and confusing QBs. And this has been done successfully with the late great Sean Taylor (Redskins), a solid Marcus Robertson (Titans), and a servicable Izell Reese (Bills). But, again, he's stated this is the first time where he may not have to manufacture so much pressure due to the DLine talent on hand. Will they address safety in this draft? Sure. But, Williams has already proven that he can build a stout defense without a stud at the position.
No matter how confusing the blitz is or where it comes from, it still requires a a centerfield safety to limit the damage when the blitz isn't successful. As Williams said himself.

Also,you keep deviating from the topic of this thread. I'm sure Williams is looking for lots of different defensive players because he's the DC. That has nothing to do with his search for a FS that will enable him to dial up all those blitz's he loves. You need the blitzers and you need the safety valves. You can't have only one to run his D successfully IMO.