Rams O line. Better than we think?

[EastRam]

6. St Louis Rams: +14.0

Stud: Both tackles Joe Barksdale and Jake Long (+8.1) are producing, even if the team probably expected a little bit better pass protection from Long.

Dud: This owes largely to Glenn Dorsey pushing him about, but Scott Wells (-3.1) is a guy more is expected of.

Summary: Of all the things you thought might go wrong with the Rams their line had to be near the top. But even after losing Rodger Saffold they’ve coped in a shock to us all.

[www.profootballfocus.com]

I'm not one for stats but.

 

[max]

Football Outsiders has the Rams OL ranked 13th in run blocking and 10th in pass blocking.

I think the OL is at least in the top half of OLs, but the offense certainly isn't that good.

I think the OL would show even better if they weren't always having to play from behind when defenses know the Rams are gonna be one dimensional.

Certainly, the Rams defense has been the biggest disappointment, I know I'm a bit shocked at how bad they have been. All the talk of top 10, maybe even top 5 Defense, and they have been a bottom 10 defense. Going into the season, even people who thought the Rams offense was bad, still thought their defense was pretty good.

 

[nighttrain]

Football Outsiders has the Rams OL ranked 13th in run blocking and 10th in pass blocking.

I think the OL is at least in the top half of OLs, but the offense certainly isn't that good.

I think the OL would show even better if they weren't always having to play from behind when defenses know the Rams are gonna be one dimensional.

Certainly, the Rams defense has been the biggest disappointment, I know I'm a bit shocked at how bad they have been. All the talk of top 10, maybe even top 5 Defense, and they have been a bottom 10 defense. Going into the season, even people who thought the Rams offense was bad, still thought their defense was pretty good.

The D is bewildering, even with the new guys it should be better than what we are seeing, gotta hope it improves..
train

 

[jrry32]

6. St Louis Rams: +14.0

Stud: Both tackles Joe Barksdale and Jake Long (+8.1) are producing, even if the team probably expected a little bit better pass protection from Long.

Dud: This owes largely to Glenn Dorsey pushing him about, but Scott Wells (-3.1) is a guy more is expected of.

Summary: Of all the things you thought might go wrong with the Rams their line had to be near the top. But even after losing Rodger Saffold they’ve coped in a shock to us all.

[www.profootballfocus.com]

I'm not one for stats but.

Yea, this is why I don't really like PFF's ranking system or analysis. Their stats can be useful though.

Our OL isn't good. I would hope us ranking highly is solely because the other 26 teams suck worse but I doubt it.

Our interior has been a mess all year and can't pick-up blitzes very effectively. Long has been solid to good aside from getting decimated by Ware. Barksdale has been as solid as you can expect. He struggles holding the edge though. Guys can beat him to the corner. When he gets his hands on defenders, he's usually fine but there are a few times per game when they just beat him to the corner and force the QB off his spot or hit/sack him.

I felt like our OL seemed to perform better after we pulled Chris Williams. He's been a drain all year. Bad blitz pick-up and, imo, he just doesn't seem to have the right mind-set out there. Kind of seems like Barron at times.

 

[nighttrain]

6. St Louis Rams: +14.0

Stud: Both tackles Joe Barksdale and Jake Long (+8.1) are producing, even if the team probably expected a little bit better pass protection from Long.

Dud: This owes largely to Glenn Dorsey pushing him about, but Scott Wells (-3.1) is a guy more is expected of.

Summary: Of all the things you thought might go wrong with the Rams their line had to be near the top. But even after losing Rodger Saffold they’ve coped in a shock to us all.

[www.profootballfocus.com]

I'm not one for stats but.

Yea, this is why I don't really like PFF's ranking system or analysis. Their stats can be useful though.

Our OL isn't good. I would hope us ranking highly is solely because the other 26 teams suck worse but I doubt it.

Our interior has been a mess all year and can't pick-up blitzes very effectively. Long has been solid to good aside from getting decimated by Ware. Barksdale has been as solid as you can expect. He struggles holding the edge though. Guys can beat him to the corner. When he gets his hands on defenders, he's usually fine but there are a few times per game when they just beat him to the corner and force the QB off his spot or hit/sack him.

I felt like our OL seemed to perform better after we pulled Chris Williams. He's been a drain all year. Bad blitz pick-up and, imo, he just doesn't seem to have the right mind-set out there. Kind of seems like Barron at times.

Have watched our OL get beat by a 4 man rush to often this season, just hoping Lou works his magic again, like real soon
train

 

[BonifayRam]

No, its not a good overall unit. It does well when it's not under pressure but once the pressure begins it fails into shambles. The main five are better @ pass blocking than run blocking. But the OL is greatly affected by other areas of the non nonperforming Ram offense too. You can't make the standard Ram fan excuse for the Ram OL saying that they are just young...the starting OL age is 29 yrs old the most experienced unit on this Ram team.

But you have to remember that this 2013 Ram OL has 3 complete new starters from last season @ OLT- OLG & ORT minus veterans Richardson, Hunter & Turner. Wells only completed 6 out of 16 2012 regular season games as the Rams starting center so he was far from being a mainstay Ram OL. Dahl is the only regular Ram OL.

Top reserve swing OT Barksdale has done a good job filling in for OT Saffold who has returned to practice back from injury again, Saffold brings his outstanding talent but also he is a walking future injury too. The last 3 seasons he has started 21 games & finished only 14 out of 37 games :what: . Not so sure I would bench Barksdale for Saffold who is also a new starting Right OT himself. I might just keep Barksdale in @ ORT & insert Saffold new to Jake Long on that left side @ OLG post where Chris Williams is just too inconsistent.

Last week Boudreau inserted Shelley Smith @ times and some series in @ OLG post pulling Chris Williams and Shelley really performed well @ both pass blocking & run blocking.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Train, I am beginning to doubt Lou's magic.

Bonifay, I have wanted the team to try Saffold at guard for a long time. Replacing Williams would be a great start.

I keep mulling over which Oline positions are the biggest needs. OLG and Center stand out. Then if you consider Dahls contract and Saffolds as well it looks like they will need four new ones.


I wonder what the drafting philosophy has been concerning Oline.
Did Fisher and Snead decide to fix the D first, then go heavy at WR because they take so long to develop. And lastly address Oline and RB since those positions usually are the fastest to adjust to the NFL and are also easy to find?

Did they trick us last year with the success only to know all along hat they were sticking to a three to five year rebuild whether they win or not? To me it appears the Rams are two more off seasons away from contending for real.

 

[nighttrain]

Train, I am beginning to doubt Lou's magic.

Bonifay, I have wanted the team to try Saffold at guard for a long time. Replacing Williams would be a great start.

I keep mulling over which Oline positions are the biggest needs. OLG and Center stand out. Then if you consider Dahls contract and Saffolds as well it looks like they will need four new ones.


I wonder what the drafting philosophy has been concerning Oline.
Did Fisher and Snead decide to fix the D first, then go heavy at WR because they take so long to develop. And lastly address Oline and RB since those positions usually are the fastest to adjust to the NFL and are also easy to find?

Did they trick us last year with the success only to know all along hat they were sticking to a three to five year rebuild whether they win or not? To me it appears the Rams are two more off seasons away from contending for real.

our young wide receivers maturing would help tremendously, it does take time
train

 

[Thordaddy]

I really hate to think what an above average line infers about our vaunted skill position players, then again FWIW I've coached HS long enough to know if the youngest team doesn't have the worst record, something is right

 

[BonifayRam]

Train, I am beginning to doubt Lou's magic.

Boudreau has been provided with two very expensive $$ high valued ex all pros in Long & Wells the last two yrs. Both came @ a cost of 58 million with 29 million guaranteed to them! Neither have performed anything close to all pro level. Not sure if its attributed to OL coach Boudreau or Shotty's overall offensive scheme?

Bonifay, I have wanted the team to try Saffold at guard for a long time. Replacing Williams would be a great start.

Like I said in another post last week if Saffold is not a future Ram after this season concluded & Barksdale has been this seasons current starter @ ORT & sure looks to be the heir apparent future Right OT starter. Then why not just plug Saffold in back on his best left side a few feet from where he has played all his football life. Looks to me that a left side of Long & Saffold should be very strong @ both run & pass blocking.

Why would you bench you most improve playing OL'er Barksdale in favor of Saffold?
If Barksdale is not then who is?? Either way the Rams having spent so much of their cap space on Wells & Long both with injury history's now Saffold would be a very unwise UFA signing with his nasty injury history.

I keep mulling over which Oline positions are the biggest needs. OLG and Center stand out. Then if you consider Dahls contract and Saffolds as well it looks like they will need four new ones.

OL needs?? Seems to me the weakest OL post is still the OLG post. ORG Dahl redid his contract taking a big pay cut this season for the team. Dahl has had some issues thus far too but not anymore than the rest. OT Saffold's future with the Rams after his contract is done this yr...will not happen. So a OT is also a very high need. The center post is very well covered with youngsters Barnes & Barrett. So Ram need a run blocking OLG NOW! & a swing OT in the draft.

I wonder what the drafting philosophy has been concerning Oline.
Did Fisher and Snead decide to fix the D first, then go heavy at WR because they take so long to develop. And lastly address Oline and RB since those positions usually are the fastest to adjust to the NFL and are also easy to find?

Fact is Snead & Fisher have had 17 draft choices in their last two drafts and we have only one third day drafted OL'er on our roster! Where for this same time period they have gone and brought in veteran OL'ers instead of draftees.

Did they trick us last year with the success only to know all along hat they were sticking to a three to five year rebuild whether they win or not? To me it appears the Rams are two more off seasons away from contending for real.

No trick, Snead & Fisher are still digging in dirt with this Ram team it nowhere close to being enclosed

 

[den-the-coach]

Yea, this is why I don't really like PFF's ranking system or analysis. Their stats can be useful though.

Our OL isn't good. I would hope us ranking highly is solely because the other 26 teams suck worse but I doubt it.

Our interior has been a mess all year and can't pick-up blitzes very effectively. Long has been solid to good aside from getting decimated by Ware. Barksdale has been as solid as you can expect. He struggles holding the edge though. Guys can beat him to the corner. When he gets his hands on defenders, he's usually fine but there are a few times per game when they just beat him to the corner and force the QB off his spot or hit/sack him.

I felt like our OL seemed to perform better after we pulled Chris Williams. He's been a drain all year. Bad blitz pick-up and, imo, he just doesn't seem to have the right mind-set out there. Kind of seems like Barron at times.

I guess I should stop posting because this is right on point especially when Smith came in for Williams. Smith is far better at the point of attack and hopefully will receive more reps. IMO they feel Williams is better at pass blocking, but with Smith in at LG the unit seemed to play better.

I expect five new starters on the OL next year. Starting with Barret Jones at Center and I expect the Rams to release Wells & Dahl draft a RT & LG and sign a RG free agent.

 

[BonifayRam]

I guess I should stop posting because this is right on point especially when Smith came in for Williams. Smith is far better at the point of attack and hopefully will receive more reps. IMO they feel Williams is better at pass blocking, but with Smith in at LG the unit seemed to play better. I expect five new starters on the OL next year. Starting with Barret Jones at Center and I expect the Rams to release Wells & Dahl draft a RT & LG and sign a RG free agent.

Not sure how much of a cap hit would take place with the release of Center Wells? His cost this season was either 8 or 9 mil. Wells is slated to make 5.5 mil base not sure how much of that guaranteed $$ 13 mil is on the 2014 season. But it would be a hit for-sure. Dahl is due 4 mil next yr Dahl sure has the look of being expendable off this early 5 week season. Neither OG Shelley Smith or OC/OG Tim Barnes are under contract after this yr. Smith is a RFA & Barnes is a ERFA. OG Brandon Washington, OG Mike Persons, OC/OG Barrett Jones & OT Joe Barksdale are under contract in 2014.

I myself see Ram starters OLG Chris Williams, ORT Roger Saffold, ORG Harvey Dahl certainly absent from the Ram roster in 2014. Based off that two talented youthful OL'ers like a a OT & OG would certainly be a top first or second day priority with the Rams first four selection in rounds 1 thru 3 in the upcoming draft.

 

[jrry32]

Yea, this is why I don't really like PFF's ranking system or analysis. Their stats can be useful though.

Our OL isn't good. I would hope us ranking highly is solely because the other 26 teams suck worse but I doubt it.

Our interior has been a mess all year and can't pick-up blitzes very effectively. Long has been solid to good aside from getting decimated by Ware. Barksdale has been as solid as you can expect. He struggles holding the edge though. Guys can beat him to the corner. When he gets his hands on defenders, he's usually fine but there are a few times per game when they just beat him to the corner and force the QB off his spot or hit/sack him.

I felt like our OL seemed to perform better after we pulled Chris Williams. He's been a drain all year. Bad blitz pick-up and, imo, he just doesn't seem to have the right mind-set out there. Kind of seems like Barron at times.

I guess I should stop posting because this is right on point especially when Smith came in for Williams. Smith is far better at the point of attack and hopefully will receive more reps. IMO they feel Williams is better at pass blocking, but with Smith in at LG the unit seemed to play better.

I expect five new starters on the OL next year. Starting with Barret Jones at Center and I expect the Rams to release Wells & Dahl draft a RT & LG and sign a RG free agent.

I agree. Keep Jake Long and rebuild the rest of the OL. Dahl and Wells have been very underwhelming this year imo.

 

[jrry32]

Boudreau has been provided with two very expensive $$ high valued ex all pros in Long & Wells the last two yrs. Both came @ a cost of 58 million with 29 million guaranteed to them! Neither have performed anything close to all pro level. Not sure if its attributed to OL coach Boudreau or Shotty's overall offensive scheme?

Personally, Bonifay, I'd say that's out of his control. When you're talking about a player with Wells's or Long's experience, they are who they are in the majority of cases. I'd say that failure falls more on the evaluation of the FO. Although, imo, Long has been worth it thus far. Wells hasn't been. Which disappoints me. I liked the signing when it happened.

I put more stock into how an OL Coach develops young talent. I think he's done a solid job here with Saffold, Barksdale and Shelley Smith.

 

[BonifayRam]

Boudreau has been provided with two very expensive $$ high valued ex all pros in Long & Wells the last two yrs. Both came @ a cost of 58 million with 29 million guaranteed to them! Neither have performed anything close to all pro level. Not sure if its attributed to OL coach Boudreau or Shotty's overall offensive scheme?

Personally, Bonifay, I'd say that's out of his control. When you're talking about a player with Wells's or Long's experience, they are who they are in the majority of cases. I'd say that failure falls more on the evaluation of the FO. Although, imo, Long has been worth it thus far. Wells hasn't been. Which disappoints me. I liked the signing when it happened.

I put more stock into how an OL Coach develops young talent. I think he's done a solid job here with Saffold, Barksdale and Shelley Smith.

Yep jrry... I agree ....that both long & Wells were purchased as completed OL packages well set in their understanding of what is needed on the field. On the opposite side of this Boudreau has done a fantastic job developing the Ol'ers drugged in off the streets & waver wire. Not so sure about Boudreau on Saffold though. But cast offs like Smith, Barksdale & Barnes looks promising I also felt that Brandon Washington may be on the verge too. In addition you should remember cast offs OT Wayne Hunter & Barry Richardson's 2012 performances.

Wells was suppose to be the one who would assist our young QB Sam with getting the OL making the proper needed last second adjustments & reads before the snap...but mishaps come in abundance in every game. not really sure what the FO saw in Wells to make them commit on that large contract.

 

[fearsomefour]

Train, I am beginning to doubt Lou's magic.

Boudreau has been provided with two very expensive $$ high valued ex all pros in Long & Wells the last two yrs. Both came @ a cost of 58 million with 29 million guaranteed to them! Neither have performed anything close to all pro level. Not sure if its attributed to OL coach Boudreau or Shotty's overall offensive scheme?

Bonifay, I have wanted the team to try Saffold at guard for a long time. Replacing Williams would be a great start.

Like I said in another post last week if Saffold is not a future Ram after this season concluded & Barksdale has been this seasons current starter @ ORT & sure looks to be the heir apparent future Right OT starter. Then why not just plug Saffold in back on his best left side a few feet from where he has played all his football life. Looks to me that a left side of Long & Saffold should be very strong @ both run & pass blocking.

Why would you bench you most improve playing OL'er Barksdale in favor of Saffold?
If Barksdale is not then who is?? Either way the Rams having spent so much of their cap space on Wells & Long both with injury history's now Saffold would be a very unwise UFA signing with his nasty injury history.

I keep mulling over which Oline positions are the biggest needs. OLG and Center stand out. Then if you consider Dahls contract and Saffolds as well it looks like they will need four new ones.

OL needs?? Seems to me the weakest OL post is still the OLG post. ORG Dahl redid his contract taking a big pay cut this season for the team. Dahl has had some issues thus far too but not anymore than the rest. OT Saffold's future with the Rams after his contract is done this yr...will not happen. So a OT is also a very high need. The center post is very well covered with youngsters Barnes & Barrett. So Ram need a run blocking OLG NOW! & a swing OT in the draft.

I wonder what the drafting philosophy has been concerning Oline.
Did Fisher and Snead decide to fix the D first, then go heavy at WR because they take so long to develop. And lastly address Oline and RB since those positions usually are the fastest to adjust to the NFL and are also easy to find?

Fact is Snead & Fisher have had 17 draft choices in their last two drafts and we have only one third day drafted OL'er on our roster! Where for this same time period they have gone and brought in veteran OL'ers instead of draftees.

Did they trick us last year with the success only to know all along hat they were sticking to a three to five year rebuild whether they win or not? To me it appears the Rams are two more off seasons away from contending for real.

No trick, Snead & Fisher are still digging in dirt with this Ram team it nowhere close to being enclosed

The whole interior of the line has disappointed. I am pulling for Williams at the G spot because he comes relatively cheaply and certainly looks the part, but, he has been disappointing. I thought Smith outplayed when he came in vs. the Jags. I expect to see more of him vs. the Texans. Dahl has been the biggest disappointment and I dont know if the guy has just gotten old or is not totally healthy, but, he has no lateral movement to speak of and cannot pick up switches. Wells has just sort of been there.
I agree we need to address both T and G in the draft. With Saffold gone after this year I could easily see Dahl and maybe Wells joining the exodus. A lot depends on cap savings I guess. The money saved could be used to bring in a FA G and use a high pick on a T and a lower pick on a G (with Barnes and Jones in the mix as well). I think our starts at T are set....Overall Saffold is still a better player than Barksdale really just becuase of Joe getting beaten around the corner a couple of times a game.
I could also see Langford being let go (I know his deal averages $6M a year, no idea what the cap savings would be) in favor of drafting a DT with one of our first round picks....at least thats what I want to see happen.

 

[BonifayRam]

The whole interior of the line has disappointed.

Yes very true.

I am pulling for Williams at the G spot because he comes relatively cheaply and certainly looks the part, but, he has been disappointing

Agree. CW was gave a big big opportunity to secure & finally full fill some of what he was when he came out of College as a first round pick. The Bears tried CW @ four OL posts for five full seasons every way they could & CW did the same as he has did for us this season...the results are the same today as it was since 2008. Disappointment.

I thought Smith outplayed when he came in vs. the Jags. I expect to see more of him vs. the Texans.

Shelley Smith did outplay CW that's a fact. Why was SS inserted into the starting Ram OL???? Was it to see if Smith could spark the running game or was it because the Rams went into the Jags game without a third OT????

Dahl has been the biggest disappointment and I dont know if the guy has just gotten old or is not totally healthy, but, he has no lateral movement to speak of and cannot pick up switches.

It seems to me that Dahl started real bad the first three games but does seems to playing some what better but yes his play has fell off bad That Dallas game was one of the worse Harvey Dahl games ever. ...it was dismal. Paying a 33 yr old Dahl 4 million next season would seem to be a bad decision at this point...Dahl has to turn it back around.


Wells has just sort of been there.

Wells has had his positive moments & did have a good game against the Jags. But he has to become more active in getting this OL settled down & running smooth. Wells who is supposed to be plenty smart, is being paid a big paycheck to get the job done .....he has mostly failed. Is that twice repaired surgical knee not what it was?


I agree we need to address both T and G in the draft. With Saffold gone after this year I could easily see Dahl and maybe Wells joining the exodus. A lot depends on cap savings I guess. The money saved could be used to bring in a FA G and use a high pick on a T and a lower pick on a G (with Barnes and Jones in the mix as well). I think our starts at T are set....Overall Saffold is still a better player than Barksdale really just becuase of Joe getting beaten around the corner a couple of times a game.

Rams must get a top rated OT in the 2014 draft that can either start @ ORT day one or be able to fill the Barksdale swing tackle role if Barksdale secures the ORT post. Other current possible OT reserves like a 26 yr old waver wire Mike Persons @ 6-5 299 or practice squad 23 yr old OT Sean Hooey seem to be be serious long shots.

With the three interior Ram OL posts having issues would it not be a good ideal to insert some of our better unknown young reserves into the mix too??? Tim Barnes, Shelley Smith, Barrett Jones, or Brandon Washington? All four played heavy in the pre season.


I could also see Langford being let go (I know his deal averages $6M a year, no idea what the cap savings would be) in favor of drafting a DT with one of our first round picks....at least thats what I want to see happen.

 

[RaminExile]

Saffold's always injured - but the play of Joe Barksdale has been a huge positive. I was really impressed with his showing (especially his run blocking - that's always been my concern about him if he's going to play RT as he just seems like too nice a guy at times! Full respect for coming on this board btw Joe and interacting with the fans - some very interesting answers big man!) against the Jaguars and he graded out very well according to PFF as he deserved.

Long didn't play well against the Cowboys - he's perhaps lost a step since his earlier years, but his technique is still sound and he's going to be a solid left tackle for us if he can keep healthy.

Williams and Smith rotating are doing ok.

Wells - not been performing at his ability level for us since he came here and imho is the weakest link on the line at the moment. I don't know much about center play tbf and its quite difficult to watch during a game so I might be wrong about him.

Dahl gets a lot of stick from the fans but I don't really know why. I've always liked the guy. He's huge - and has historically been good in both pass pro and the run game. Struggled again earlier this year with run blocking but so did everyone else for some reason. Seems to have improved a bit recently and I think he'll get better when the guys gel a bit more.

The key factor here seems to be that "gel factor" - playing together regularly, learning each others movements and techniques, and most importantly communication.

Full props to Coach Boudreau for getting some good grades out of a group that maybe people didn't think was the most talented one in the world.

 

[Username]

They had 2 amazing games, then 2 absolutely miserable games. Then they played the Jaguars.

 

[jrry32]

They had 2 amazing games, then 2 absolutely miserable games. Then they played the Jaguars.

I disagree.