Rams Need to Look at O-line Personnel/Wagoner

[RamBill]

ESPN Rams reporter Nick Wagoner talks about the team playing younger offensive linemen to assess their talent level.

Watch Wagoner's Rams Report

 

[Alan]

Fisher is a stubborn little guy isn't he. I wonder what his thinking is behind that attitude? I'm missing the logic of that.

 

[LACHAMP46]

states the obvious, but fish said no changes, why is he trying to stir sh!t up?

 

[junkman]

Fisher is a stubborn little guy isn't he. I wonder what his thinking is behind that attitude? I'm missing the logic of that.

+1. I don't care as much about Ws and Ls now. I hate the idea of spending the next 7 months talking to other Rams fans about how they have nobody to play the OL interior, and only way to solve that is by putting these guys on the field. We already KNOW that Wells and Joseph are terrible. I'd like to learn something new.

 

[RamFan503]

Almost split a gersh dern gut over that Kardashian line. Man that was some comedic gold right there.

 

[Alan]

LACHAMP46 a sea:
why is he trying to stir sh!t up?

I can only hope that by publicly advocating what he (and I) see as common sense that Fish will read it and give it some more thought.

Plus stirring the pot is what he gets paid for. Or at least part of what he gets paid for.

 

[-X-]

I mean, I see the point of wanting to see younger guys playing in order to assess them for next year, but I'm still not a fan of it. You've got veterans out their busting their asses, and now the game's about talent evaluation instead of actually trying to win. I dunno. That would kind of piss me off if I was a veteran who took this stuff seriously. Clearly the coaches feel the same way.

 

[RamFan503]

I mean, I see the point of wanting to see younger guys playing in order to assess them for next year, but I'm still not a fan of it. You've got veterans out their busting their asses, and now the game's about talent evaluation instead of actually trying to win. I dunno. That would kind of pee pee me off if I was a veteran who took this stuff seriously. Clearly the coaches feel the same way.

This^^^

 

[Alan]

-X- looking at it from one perspective:
You've got veterans out their busting their asses, and now the game's about talent evaluation instead of actually trying to win. I dunno. That would kind of pee pee me off if I was a veteran who took this stuff seriously.

On the other hand, there are probably many who say to themselves, "This is how I support my family and while winning and playing the game I love is important, playing meaningless (big picture Super Bowl wise) games where I might get injured and screw up my career isn't as important as making the team better so that we can come back next year and win it all." I might say that myself. Career ending/altering injuries happen so often now that it has to be in the back of their minds if not in the front of them. Look how these vets perceive the Pro Bowl to see what I'm talking about.

I have no clue which scenario is more prevalent but I bet it's a mixture of both.

 

[-X-]

On the other hand, there are probably many who say to themselves, "This is how I support my family and while winning and playing the game I love is important, playing meaningless (big picture Super Bowl wise) games where I might get injured and screw up my career isn't as important as making the team better so that we can come back next year and win it all." I might say that myself. Career ending/altering injuries happen so often now that it has to be in the back of their minds if not in the front of them. Look how these vets perceive the Pro Bowl to see what I'm talking about.

I have no clue which scenario is more prevalent but I bet it's a mixture of both.

Could be. Without putting ourselves into the minds of players, I'll just add that I would probably mentally check out during practice and in games if I knew they were being played for no other reason than to take a look at less important or impactful players that may or may not make it the following year. John Fassel spoke about this recently and said that veteran players would pick up on it, and it would not sit well with them.

 

[Alan]

-X- with a refinement:
Could be.

I'm not sure that it's only to look at scrubs and the "next man up" mentality doesn't figure in there somewhere. There's definitely a fine line between "this is a business and we need to do what's best for the team" and "let's keep the backbone of our team happy." If that's even what they want to be happy.

It's just something that crossed my mind when I read your post so...I'm not even sure how I view it. What I do know is that IMO it would be good for the team to take a look at what we have. We have important decisions to be made. We're right on the cusp of something really good and we don't want any unforced errors.

 

[SierraRam]

I mean, I see the point of wanting to see younger guys playing in order to assess them for next year, but I'm still not a fan of it. You've got veterans out their busting their asses, and now the game's about talent evaluation instead of actually trying to win. I dunno. That would kind of pee pee me off if I was a veteran who took this stuff seriously. Clearly the coaches feel the same way.

I agree to a point here X, but wouldn't you at least like to see what we have in Jones and maybe Person? I don't agree with all who say "it can't get any worse." We know it can, but good God, it can certainly get better too. How many whiffs does Joseph get? Wells has had his share of mistakes, too. I won't even bring up his mystery snaps. If the younger guys can't crack this lineup, then we'll need at least 4 OL in the off season. My depressing guess is Fisher already knows this and is playing his best hand... yuck

 

[RamsFanCK]

Please, just get someone, anyone, to develops or start over Davin Joesph. Man just doesn't have the speed I like to pull and lacks great pass blocking ability.

 

[-X-]

I agree to a point here X, but wouldn't you at least like to see what we have in Jones and maybe Person? I don't agree with all who say "it can't get any worse." We know it can, but good God, it can certainly get better too. How many whiffs does Joseph get? Wells has had his share of mistakes, too. I won't even bring up his mystery snaps. If the younger guys can't crack this lineup, then we'll need at least 4 OL in the off season. My depressing guess is Fisher already knows this and is playing his best hand... yuck

Well, yeah, when we're talking about replacing a bad player with a potentially good one. If Jones is ready and has shown to be better during practices and his limited playing time, then I'd be okay with him playing over Wells. Same with Person and Joseph. My comments are more directed towards the idea of making winning less of a priority over evaluating talent for the following year. In that, I'd rather the Rams try to win 4 of the last 5 as opposed to seeing if (insert player here) can play. The coaches and players can tell if a player deserves playing time or not, and when they're given time over other players just for the sake of talent evaluation, and at the expense of trying to win, then that's where I have a problem.

I agree about Joseph and Wells, but last week the cards played a lot of condensed fronts where they lined 3 right over center. Would Jones and Person have done better in the face of that pressure? I dunno. Could have been disastrous. But I do see your (and @Alan's) point, so there's that.

 

[RamFan503]

I guess I just don't see the point at this point in the season, to play someone who you would not have played already. If you think he has the potential to beat out your current starters - maybe. But it would occur to me that Fish at least thinks he knows what he has. In that case, he may believe that next year Jones could challenge for the starting roll against what we currently have but will still be looking for starters that aren't currently here. If at this point, Jones only MIGHT be able to take over for Wells or Persons MIGHT be able to take over for Joseph, is that really a recipe for next year's starting O-line? I have to think that if Jones or Persons were considered the future of our O-line, we probably would have seen them ala GRob playing while Joseph sat.

 

[Alan]

RamFan503 with this:
I guess I just don't see the point at this point in the season, to play someone who you would not have played already. If you think he has the potential to beat out your current starters - maybe. But it would occur to me that Fish at least thinks he knows what he has. In that case, he may believe that next year Jones could challenge for the starting roll against what we currently have but will still be looking for starters that aren't currently here. If at this point, Jones only MIGHT be able to take over for Wells or Persons MIGHT be able to take over for Joseph, is that really a recipe for next year's starting O-line? I have to think that if Jones or Persons were considered the future of our O-line, we probably would have seen them ala GRob playing while Joseph sat.

I see your points and they're good ones. I also think there's great value in getting actual game experience. Going up against our own D-line at less than full bore in practice isn't the same thing. It's not just the D-line players that don't go full bore in practice, the O-line doesn't either. Too much chance of injury to yourself or to your teammate. But then I haven't actually played organized football so I could easily be full of it. It's what I see on the surface though.

 

[RamFan503]

I see your points and they're good ones. I also think there's great value in getting actual game experience. Going up against our own D-line at less than full bore in practice isn't the same thing. It's not just the D-line players that don't go full bore in practice, the O-line doesn't either. Too much chance of injury to yourself or to your teammate. But then I haven't actually played organized football so I could easily be full of it. It's what I see on the surface though.

Yeah - real game experience trumps practice but putting someone in a real game when they don't belong there could have other consequences as well. Wouldn't you rather have someone experienced at whiffing on blocks?

 

[Boffo97]

I want to play these last two games to win. Training camp, preseason and practice is for talent evaluation.

 

[Alan]

RamFan503 pointing out there can be drawbacks either way:
Yeah - real game experience trumps practice but putting someone in a real game when they don't belong there could have other consequences as well. Wouldn't you rather have someone experienced at whiffing on blocks?

I can say a couple of things for sure. I don't want any more injuries among our starters on the O-line. The other thing is that one should keep in mind that Fisher didn't play Donald much early even though it was clear, to me at least, that he was better than Langford (and yes I know I've been down on Langford the last two years). The point to that is that Fisher doesn't always play the best player when it's a rookie versus a vet. I find it really hard to believe that none of them are better than Joseph. Or at least as good.

 

[Mackeyser]

I agree that you play to win the game. I'll spare us all of the obligatory meme insert.

That said, Wells has played poorly and been a SIGNIFICANT factor in our losses. Interior pressure is how teams are beating us. Wells and Joseph have become the holes in our OL with Wells being the biggest problem, the biggest hole.

Now, would I want Fisher to replace Wells with Jones or anyone else if they weren't BETTER? Absolutely not.

Problem is that Fisher seems to insist on OLD vets at Center, even at the cost of performance. It's a TRUST issue with him. As in, he doesn't TRUST rookies or younger players at that position.

It's to the point where it's hurting the team. I mean, we have the worst Center in the entire NFL and he won't make a change...