Rams look to simplify offense with Frank Cignetti/Wagoner

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
St. Louis Rams look to simplify offense with Frank Cignetti
By Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/16263/rams-look-to-simplify-offense-with-cignetti

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- One of the first orders of business for the St. Louis Rams before the real offseason begins is going through an extensive period of self-scouting.

As coach Jeff Fisher and his offensive coaches went back through the 2014 season, he came to a few conclusions.

"I personally had plenty of time to go back and reflect and look at the offense and identify some areas that need to be improved on," Fisher said. "Like what you're talking about with the third quarter stuff and the third-down efficiency and tying the run game to the play-action game and simplifying the offense and reducing things and establishing an identity and all those kind of things."

Out of that laundry list of items, the word "simplifying" jumps out the most. I know what you're thinking: How can an offense based in the principles of "ground and pound" be too complicated? Well, Fisher believes that at times the Rams' offense was too voluminous, asking the players to remember a lot of things in a given week.

Former coordinator Brian Schottenheimer's offense (under Fisher's guidance) may be fairly fundamental philosophically but it also came with plenty of shifts, movements and details that gave the players an abundance of things to do and remember on every snap.

In elevating quarterbacks coach Frank Cignetti to offensive coordinator, Fisher said he saw in Cignetti an ability to help the offense get where it wants to go without having to change what it does at its core.

"Those are the kind of things that we talked about and those are the things that were very attractive to me from a standpoint of not only his background, his experience just understanding offensive concepts, but also different ways of doing things," Fisher said. "So, we are going to change, but change is good. This change is going to be very, very good for us."

Asked if he thought the offense was too complicated, Fisher confirmed that in discussions with Cignetti, there was a bit of a consensus that it was.

"I think we agreed there was at times," Fisher said.

Which puts the onus on Cignetti and his staff to find ways to reduce the offense and simplify it while also ensuring that it offers enough options to have success. There is no doubt that the Rams offense will have a similar approach in 2015 with the language and playbook remaining the same. Boiled down to simpler terms, the idea is to continue doing the same things the offense has done in the past but do it better.

"The foundation of the playbook is the same," Cignetti said. "Coach Schottenheimer's put a terrific system in place here, the same system I was a part of when I was with the San Francisco 49ers. The foundation is going to be the same. Whether Coach Schottenheimer was still here or whether it was myself leading, every year you look at ways of doing things better.

"So, things that we talked about was how could we minimize terminology? So there's certain things that we did in my past that we'll be able to minimize terminology. So, as an offensive staff, we're going to evaluate everything. If there's a better way to learn, if there's a better way to teach, then we'll make changes. We're not going to change just to make changes, but if it's something that's going to help us win football games, then we'll make the necessary changes."

It's a process that's already begun.

"I'm confident that our system will be such in April when the players come back for the offseason program, we'll be simplified," Fisher said. "But appear to be much more complex."
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
So, are we gonna shift less? Less sight adjustments? I actually like all the shifting & motion...It used to work great in Madden.
Another nail in the didn't really dump Schotty coffin....In fact, I'm sure of it now...And I'm about to start blaming him for Quick & Tavon's slow starts...too many damn things to remember....Simplify....defense too...
 

Boffo97

Still legal in 17 states!
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
5,278
Name
Dave
Another nail in the didn't really dump Schotty coffin....In fact, I'm sure of it now...
Those who want to believe it are unfortunately going to believe it no matter what. They strongly have such and such an opinion and therefore assume that it's only natural that everyone on the Rams secretly shares it.

You see pretty much the same thing with those who assume Warner must have some huge grudge or vendetta against Martz or the Rams as a whole.
 

FrankenRam

Starter
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
526
I've heard it said more than once that Schotty's O was a complex one. No idea if it's true, but doesn't seem like a good mix with a young team and 2nd/3rd string QB's runnin' the show if true.
 

Memphis Ram

Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
6,668
''We've got to get better at it. We need to be able to line up and say, 'Here we come. This is what we're running. Stop it,''' coach Jeff Fisher said. ''We're not there yet.''

December 2014

 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
Those who want to believe it are unfortunately going to believe it no matter what. They strongly have such and such an opinion and therefore assume that it's only natural that everyone on the Rams secretly shares it.

You see pretty much the same thing with those who assume Warner must have some huge grudge or vendetta against Martz or the Rams as a whole.
And ,I'd like to add, it occurs to me that Fishers one and only chance to win a SB he LOST to a team whose playbook was HUGE probably bigger than Shotties ,then again Martz might be a better teacher and I'm sure the GSOT was not JUST physically talented they were a smart bunch of players . I think these guys may be more talented but not as teachable .
Fishers system may yet work but IMO the better coach is the better teacher .
TO ME the biggest knock on Shotty was his lack of imagination ,when in point of fact it appears Fisher thought he was too imaginative. Go figure
 

Robocop

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,933
Name
J.
I have my theories on why Schotty was kept as long as he was and I don't necessarily blame Fisher for sticking with him. but if Fisher knows the running game balance he wants and Cignetti knowing Bradfords strengths and weaknesses then this should work. and SIMPLICITY is the key and I liked hearing the word play-action. deeper routes!
 

den-the-coach

Fifty-four Forty or Fight
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
22,425
Name
Dennis
I like Cignetti and if the Rams go with Jeff Garcia as QB Coach I feel the offensive staff is better in 2015 than it was in 2014. Now if Sam Bradford remains healthy than Cignetti will have quite a first year in the books as an offensive coordinator in the National Football League.

Keep in mind the reason the Rams wanted Shaun Hill was because of Frank Cignetti and their prior relationship when Cignetti coached Hill with the 49ers. Hopefully the Rams will have a better plan B or 1A in place in 2015 for if not this might just be the last of Jeff Fisher and Les Snead and maybe the St. Louis Rams as well as we buckle in for turbulence and decisions that might test the very fabric of us as Ram fans.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
You see pretty much the same thing with those who assume Warner must have some huge grudge or vendetta against Martz or the Rams as a whole.
Boffo, Warner DOES hold a grudge, and no, I can't prove it. I only look at the body language, and his comments regarding his beloved Cards as opposed to his statements about the Rams....I am a body language expert BTW
 

Boffo97

Still legal in 17 states!
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
5,278
Name
Dave
Boffo, Warner DOES hold a grudge, and no, I can't prove it. I only look at the body language, and his comments regarding his beloved Cards as opposed to his statements about the Rams....I am a body language expert BTW
Of course he'd have more positive to say about the Cards than the Rams. They were his most recent team. It'd be like complaints from Colts fans that Faulk didn't acknowledge them as much as he did the Rams.

Plus, he's made a lot of positive statements against Martz where he'd suddenly be a liar.

While I can't prove my side either, I just put it out there that it's very easy to project one's own belief onto a Ram. One gets to thinking that their viewpoint is the only sensible one to have, and if dipwads like Boffo disagree, that's because they're crazy and stupid. Since Warner (or whoever) isn't crazy or stupid, they must agree with the argument at hand.
 

Rmfnlt

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
5,342
"I'm confident that our system will be such in April when the players come back for the offseason program, we'll be simplified," Fisher said. "But appear to be much more complex."

Strategery...
:)

Make it look complex, yet it's simple.
 

ram007

Starter
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
830
''We've got to get better at it. We need to be able to line up and say, 'Here we come. This is what we're running. Stop it,''' coach Jeff Fisher said. ''We're not there yet.''

December 2014

Coach Fisher is right on. He is building a defense that plays that way. I am not sure there are players on the offensive side to do it.
 

Merlin

Enjoying the ride
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
37,036
Pretty damning list for Fish to mention tbh...

1. Language overcomplicated (Schotty's "version" of the Coryell included modifications to terminology).
2. Needing to appear more complex.
3. Third quarter performance.
4. Third down efficiency.
5. Tying play action to the running game.

What all of that tells me is that there were almost surely a lot of conversations behind the scenes regarding how they were going to fix things that made Schotty uncomfortable. He probably felt that his terminology was not the problem and I'm certain that is why he cut bait and took a college job.
 

-X-

Medium-sized Lebowski
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
35,576
Name
The Dude
Former coordinator Brian Schottenheimer's offense (under Fisher's guidance) may be fairly fundamental philosophically but it also came with plenty of shifts, movements and details that gave the players an abundance of things to do and remember on every snap.
Isn't that kind of the definition of creativity? Which is what the chief complaint was, IIRC. "Schotty isn't creative enough."
Now it turns out he was too creative and we need to simplify things because all of our players are too dumb to memorize stuff.

Either way, done deal. Shouldn't take long for fans to identify Cignetti's glaring weakness. lulz.
 

Blue and Gold

Pro Bowler
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
1,741
Name
B and G
I've heard it said more than once that Schotty's O was a complex one. No idea if it's true, but doesn't seem like a good mix with a young team and 2nd/3rd string QB's runnin' the show if true.
It was wordy . . .not as wordy/complex as Dan Reeve's offense. But I've heard same things.
 

den-the-coach

Fifty-four Forty or Fight
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
22,425
Name
Dennis
I hope simplifying the system does not result in....Run, Run, Pass, Punt!
 

MrMotes

Starter
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
954
Jeff Fisher and Rex Ryan are really two of a kind and possibly among the last of their kind as far as coaching philosophy goes.