Rams Draft Haul of 2014, Mack and Roby?

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Ryan
Logic says to me that if Mack is the pick at 2 then we will see plenty of him on the field. His lack of coverage skills don't scare me anymore than robinson's pass blocking. That being said. I wouldn't mind either (y)
 

V3

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How about Von Miller or Brian Orakpo??

Of course the traditional 4-3 OLB isn't worth a high pick, but a hybrid pass rusher like Mack is definitely worth taking that high in the draft. Williams loves to blitz and I think if we really plan on drafting Mack, then we're going to see some big scheme changes and he's going to play the Leo role/nickel DE for us kind of like those two guys or Bruce Irvin with the Seahawks. You guys are being too rigid in your thinking, we brought Williams in to bring in some creativity and fresh ideas, if we're looking at a prospect like Mack it's certainly not to have him fill the same role that Ogletree played last year, that would be stupid.

Washington runs a 3-4(when they played a 4-3, Orakpo played DE) and Denver, while at it's base is a 4-3, they run a LOT of 3-4 packages. That's where Miller shines. I'll give you credit on the Miller choice, though. But still, that's one example in a LONG time. Also(and this is the biggest issue), he was a much better prospect coming out, IMO. He could cover and was a great tackler on top of the great pass rushing ability. He was much closer to a complete package AND he also played in a competent conference. There was a lot of game tape on him. There's very little with Khalil in which he plays against talented opponents.

Could Khalil turn out to be similar to Miller? Sure, but there's WAY more risk in that happening and that's what I'm trying to get at. I hate taking risks at the top of the draft. It's all about value with me in the draft. Value diminishes as risk increases- particularly at the top. To me, there's MUCH better value in taking a SLB later in the draft that would still have a good chance to be a solid player and using that #2 pick to take a player at a MUCH, MUCH more important position that will likely be a great player(less risk of him not living up to the draft spot) for a long time(LT, Matthews).
 

jjab360

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Washington runs a 3-4(when they played a 4-3, Orakpo played DE) and Denver, while at it's base is a 4-3, they run a LOT of 3-4 packages. That's where Miller shines. I'll give you credit on the Miller choice, though. But still, that's one example in a LONG time. Also(and this is the biggest issue), he was a much better prospect coming out, IMO. He could cover and was a great tackler on top of the great pass rushing ability. He was much closer to a complete package AND he also played in a competent conference. There was a lot of game tape on him. There's very little with Khalil in which he plays against talented opponents.
Wrong. I remember it being a pretty big deal when Washington played Orakpo at 4-3 OLB because everybody thought they were playing him out of position, but it actually turned out pretty well. He was still rushing the passer most of the time, but it was mostly as an off LOS blitzer. I view us doing the same thing with Mack.

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting Von being better in coverage or against the run coming out because I don't think either one of those is true. Miller had 11 career PBU's and 1 interception vs Mack's 21 career PBU's and 4 ints. Mack also had far more tackles, TFLs, FFs, etc., but those are all just numbers in the end. Point being if you just watch the two play, Miller was obviously more of a pure speed rusher whereas Mack plays with a bit more power and control, hence he seems more stout against the run and is around the ball more often. Miller also had a questionable motor coming out according to some whereas Mack's consistent effort and work ethic is a huge selling point for him.

Here's video for comparison:

 

V3

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Wrong. I remember it being a pretty big deal when Washington played Orakpo at 4-3 OLB because everybody thought they were playing him out of position, but it actually turned out pretty well. He was still rushing the passer most of the time, but it was mostly as an off LOS blitzer. I view us doing the same thing with Mack.

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting Von being better in coverage or against the run coming out because I don't think either one of those is true. Miller had 11 career PBU's and 1 interception vs Mack's 21 career PBU's and 4 ints. Mack also had far more tackles, TFLs, FFs, etc., but those are all just numbers in the end. Point being if you just watch the two play, Miller was obviously more of a pure speed rusher whereas Mack plays with a bit more power and control, hence he seems more stout against the run and is around the ball more often. Miller also had a questionable motor coming out according to some whereas Mack's consistent effort and work ethic is a huge selling point for him.

Here's video for comparison:



Mack's stats really mean little to me because of where he played. And I don't care what others said about Miller coming out, just like I don't care what others are saying about Mack. I watch tape and make my own decision. I remember liking Miller a lot more than others and wasn't really surprised he went so high. I thought he was better at most aspects than others. I guess I wasn't that far off with him. We'll see with Mack.
 

Zaphod

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And hopefully we'll see him excel with the Rams!

Seriously, nothing horrible at all about his coverage skills, and I really do think he'd eventually be our starting MLB.
 

jjab360

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Mack's stats really mean little to me because of where he played. And I don't care what others said about Miller coming out, just like I don't care what others are saying about Mack. I watch tape and make my own decision. I remember liking Miller a lot more than others and wasn't really surprised he went so high. I thought he was better at most aspects than others. I guess I wasn't that far off with him. We'll see with Mack.
Well, if you're going to discount everything Mack does because of the school he plays at then I guess it's going to be tough for me to change your mind. That being said, I think it says something that Mack has made this much noise and made it near the top of everyone's draft boards despite playing in the MAC. He had some of his biggest games against Buffalo's toughest opponents and everyone else in the MAC triple (not double) teamed him all game long because they were terrified he was going to wreck their game plan. If you've watched him play more than just the youtube highlights and weren't impressed, then I have to wonder exactly what you were looking at, tbh. Dude is a beast to me, speed, strength, agility, explosiveness, ridiculous production, relentless motor, he has it all and scouts have noticed.
 

jjab360

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And hopefully we'll see him excel with the Rams!

Seriously, nothing horrible at all about his coverage skills, and I really do think he'd eventually be our starting MLB.
I think that'd be a waste with his pass rushing skills, but I do think he could be a Navoro Bowman type ILB if someone wanted to play him there.
 

Hawk

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Could Khalil turn out to be similar to Miller? Sure, but there's WAY more risk in that happening and that's what I'm trying to get at. I hate taking risks at the top of the draft. It's all about value with me in the draft. Value diminishes as risk increases- particularly at the top. To me, there's MUCH better value in taking a SLB later in the draft that would still have a good chance to be a solid player and using that #2 pick to take a player at a MUCH, MUCH more important position that will likely be a great player(less risk of him not living up to the draft spot) for a long time(LT, Matthews).

You are talking as if Mack is a bigger risk than Matthews or GRob which just isn't the case. Look at last years draft class for proof. And I disagree that LT is MUCH, MUCH more important. Pass rushers are just as important as tackles, and that's what Mack would be. Don't dismiss the notion that Gregg Williams' scheme would help a player like Mack thrive. Both LB's and OT's tend to have some of the better odds at not busting so saying Mack is more likely to bust than Matthews is nothing more than conjecture (http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpr...afest-positions-to-target-in-the-first-round/) another source (http://www.footballperspective.com/which-positions-are-the-safest-to-draft-in-the-first-round/)
 

V3

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Well, if you're going to discount everything Mack does because of the school he plays at then I guess it's going to be tough for me to change your mind. That being said, I think it says something that Mack has made this much noise and made it near the top of everyone's draft boards despite playing in the MAC. He had some of his biggest games against Buffalo's toughest opponents and everyone else in the MAC triple (not double) teamed him all game long because they were terrified he was going to wreck their game plan. If you've watched him play more than just the youtube highlights and weren't impressed, then I have to wonder exactly what you were looking at, tbh. Dude is a beast to me, speed, strength, agility, explosiveness, ridiculous production, relentless motor, he has it all and scouts have noticed.

I try to avoid highlights at all costs. I watched whole games. I've already said probably 10 times what I saw; a guy best suited as a pass rusher in a 3-4. If you want a comparison, I think he's similar to Aldon Smith. I look for more than just athletic ability.
 

Alan

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Hawk with different priorities:
And I disagree that LT is MUCH, MUCH more important. Pass rushers are just as important as tackles, and that's what Mack would be. Don't dismiss the notion that Gregg Williams' scheme would help a player like Mack thrive.
I pretty much disagree with that view completely. You can get a pass rush from so many different positions but you can only protect your QB's blind side from from one.
 

jjab360

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I try to avoid highlights at all costs. I watched whole games. I've already said probably 10 times what I saw; a guy best suited as a pass rusher in a 3-4. If you want a comparison, I think he's similar to Aldon Smith. I look for more than just athletic ability.
So you're telling me if there was a (sane) Aldon Smith in this draft you wouldn't want him on this defense? Nobody is saying to draft Mack and use him like we use Ogletree, that would be a complete waste. I'm saying that if we draft Mack he'll be used as a hybrid pass rusher with responsibilities similar to your typical 3-4 OLB. I don't think Tim Walton would've been creative enough to use his talents correctly, but I think Gregg Williams can't wait to get his hands on a talent like Mack.
 

tbux

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Mack is a very solid prospect- but to take him over either Watkins, or either OT would be insanity. Our O is our biggest issue- we need to address it- and there are three players who will help it significantly- I dont see any way we take Mack at 2. none.
 

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You are talking as if Mack is a bigger risk than Matthews or GRob which just isn't the case. Look at last years draft class for proof. And I disagree that LT is MUCH, MUCH more important. Pass rushers are just as important as tackles, and that's what Mack would be. Don't dismiss the notion that Gregg Williams' scheme would help a player like Mack thrive. Both LB's and OT's tend to have some of the better odds at not busting so saying Mack is more likely to bust than Matthews is nothing more than conjecture (http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpr...afest-positions-to-target-in-the-first-round/) another source (http://www.footballperspective.com/which-positions-are-the-safest-to-draft-in-the-first-round/)

Put it this way, who do you think will have the better career: Jake Matthews at LT or Mack as a SLB in a 4-3. To me, it's not even close. If you change that to 3-4, it gets closer but I still think there's MUCH more risk with Mack due to who he played against and the skills in which he's still lacking. And I'm sorry but a LT is so much more important than a SLB in a 4-3. Why else do you see LT's being taken at the very top of the draft EVERY YEAR? How many SLB destined for a 4-3 do you see going that high? Heck, you don't find that many 3-4 LB's going that high. And I never said Mack would bust. Never. I've said MANY TIMES that I think he's best suited for a 3-4 and that if he's coming here to play SLB, they're getting poor value. LBs in a 4-3 are not used the same way as in a 3-4. If the Rams are going to start playing A LOT more 3-4 packages, then I'd be surprised. With as much passing as there is in today's game, I prefer CB's to be covering receivers- not hoping a LB with questionable coverage skills can cover some of the TE's or WR's that play today. He'd better be able to get to the QB before he can throw the ball.
 

jjab360

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I pretty much disagree with that view completely. You can get a pass rush from so many different positions but you can only protect your QB's blind side from from one.
A great pass rusher has a much greater impact/value than a great pass protector, imo. Doesn't really matter what side of the field they're coming from a great pass rusher can ruin an offense's game plan. Can't really say the same vice versa.
 

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So you're telling me if there was a (sane) Aldon Smith in this draft you wouldn't want him on this defense? Nobody is saying to draft Mack and use him like we use Ogletree, that would be a complete waste. I'm saying that if we draft Mack he'll be used as a hybrid pass rusher with responsibilities similar to your typical 3-4 OLB. I don't think Tim Walton would've been creative enough to use his talents correctly, but I think Gregg Williams can't wait to get his hands on a talent like Mack.

They'd have to convert to a mostly 3-4 defense to get enough value out of him, IMO. They'd also have to hope he gets better at certain skills. Also, I think Aldon Smith could play a 4-3 DE in the NFL. I don't think Mack could. Mack is a tweener.
 

jrry32

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I'd be angry if we took Roby at #13.
 

V3

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A great pass rusher has a much greater impact/value than a great pass protector, imo. Doesn't really matter what side of the field they're coming from a great pass rusher can ruin an offense's game plan. Can't really say the same vice versa.

With Bradford, I couldn't disagree more. Sorry. I'm not trying to start anything. Just being honest.
 

jrry32

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They'd have to convert to a mostly 3-4 defense to get enough value out of him, IMO. They'd also have to hope he gets better at certain skills. Also, I think Aldon Smith could play a 4-3 DE in the NFL. I don't think Mack could. Mack is a tweener.

No, they don't. Denver gets a ton of value out of Von Miller as a 4-3 defense. Gregg Williams used a guy by the name of Marcus Washington in Washington like he could use Mack.

It wouldn't be an issue getting value out of Mack. The questions are...is he worth the draft slot? Is the best talent on the board? Is he the best value on the board?
 

Mojo Ram

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I'm no scout, but i am big on production. Conference and competition is overrated IMO. Better players(in high school) are obviously highly recruited by the big time conferences, but many young athletes are simply late bloomers. They wind up at small schools and wreck weaker competition. They mature physically and mentally...it is what it is.
 

V3

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No, they don't. Denver gets a ton of value out of Von Miller as a 4-3 defense. Gregg Williams used a guy by the name of Marcus Washington in Washington like he could use Mack.

It wouldn't be an issue getting value out of Mack. The questions are...is he worth the draft slot? Is the best talent on the board? Is he the best value on the board?

Denver runs a lot of 3-4 packages to utilize Miller's pass rushing skills and when they aren't, Miller can play a 4-3 well. And the value is what I've been talking about this whole time.