Rams chat with Jim Thomas: 5/5/15

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Noregar

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Roger
I generally liked JT in the past but as many other have noted you can readily detect an animosity toward Fisher and the Rams from JT's recent chats. It is clear that the Rams have fallen out of favor (what little they ever had) with the PD. Bernie and Gordon are basically worthless (all negative opinion) when it comes to gleaning any useful information about the Rams. At least we still get a few useful nuggets of info from JT. If I were sitting in their shoes I might be able to understand some of the negativity but I am a true Rams fan (40 yeas and counting) so when I read/hear all of this excessively negative crap it just turns me off.
 

Athos

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I think we need a ROD bet going for how long Bitter Little Girl JT lasts covering the Rams. :ROFLMAO:
 

Ram_Rally

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Maybe I should have said he could sit out "and re-enter the draft in 2016", by going un-drafted he can't. The only thing you'd do by drafting him in the 7th is to waste your 7th round draft pick and prevent any other team from signing him. Maybe preventing all other teams from getting him this year is worth that 7th round pick to you.
Ah, I see. From what ive read though, it would be a lengthy process, as only players coming out of college in their first year are eligible.
 

Rmfnlt

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So, mods (or anyone who knows)... I need some help...

How do you put a thread on ignore?

Not that I agree or disagree with many of the comments here... but it's really getting old every week to hear the same 'ol, same 'ol...

Can I ignore these JT threads? If so, how?

Much appreciated!!
 

rams56

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Steve
I myself am looking for improvement within this team..... I know people say that we need this or need that to improve. ... I've made this argument before...lol and it's that time of year again so here it goes.... we are still a real young team. If Jenkins, Johnson, Gaines, Joiner, Alexander, and McDonald and company improve they're play individually just a little the unit gets much better...if Ogletree comes into camp in shape he improves and with addition of Ayres the LBs improve.....If Long stays healthy and Hayes is able to do his outstanding work as DE depth and as a pass rushing DT with Quinn and Donald's improvement along with Brockers and Fairley this unit can improve.....and as a defense we could become absolutely dominant just with the players within....and Greg Williams experience and knowledge of his players ability could help our defense improve. .....as for offense...the addition of Foles and Gurley along with our new oline and a commitment to the run game....our offense will be good enough this year to compete for the division. ...I may be alone here but I think we have an outstanding group of pass catchers that will become even more effective in a playaction system with a legitimate starting qb (Foles). ;)

Go Rams........... ;)
 

DaveFan'51

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What is your best guess as to how our offensive line would look today? Robinson/Jamon Brown/Barrett Jones/Saffold/Havenstein?

You mean starters? LT Robinson, LG Saffold, C Jones, RG Brown or Reynold, RT Havenstein.
I prefer the questioners O-Line to JT's!(y)
Austin Davis on roster for season opener?

I'm gonna say yes, Davis beats out Case Keenum for backup job. Rams keep Foles, Davis, and Mannion.
If this ^ is the way JT see's it, I know I want Keenum!!
 

dbrooks25

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I don't really see a difference in the media. None of them offer any insight or real information because our FO is a secretive one. Take this draft. No one in our media predicted anything remotely like how it went, but yet only JT is accused of having no insight or info. Does Wagoner know if we're bringing Barksdale back? Unless something has changed in the last 20 mins since I last checked he doesn't know dick either. He does have the luxury of being able to write a guesswork article though.
The last I checked, Wagoner doesn't get his panties in a bunch and doesn't come off as dry as hell. It's obvious that JT is still butt hurt and the shit is getting annoying. Like I said, I wish Wagoner could do extended chats. I also like listening to him on 101 espn a lot better than I did JT when he used to be on there.
 

Prime Time

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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As I've stated many times before in the past, I have no problem with JT or his chats. It takes a minimum of 30 minutes to scan through a chat and copy/paste and post it. I wouldn't do it if it wasn't at least somewhat enjoyable and interesting

In retrospect it wasn't wise of JT to get all bent out of shape over his lack of inside information about the Bradford/Foles trade and then comment on it because it hurt his credibility. Now many are just looking for his latest snarky comment. In the following comment lies the real truth about the Rams media...

I don't really see a difference in the media. None of them offer any insight or real information because our FO is a secretive one.

No one and I mean no one has any real secret inside information on this team except Fisher, Snead, Kroenke, and whomever they decide to reveal things to. So the PD reporters are pretty much in the same boat we're in - having to make a good guess.

So, mods (or anyone who knows)... I need some help...

How do you put a thread on ignore?

Not that I agree or disagree with many of the comments here... but it's really getting old every week to hear the same 'ol, same 'ol...

Can I ignore these JT threads? If so, how?

Much appreciated!!

Just don't click. ;)
 

Robocop

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Nice%20and%20Salty%20hot%20dog.jpg
right. lets whine about it a little more. JT is the new Bernie. and Wagoner is just clueless. Casey Phillips was the Rams best reporter lol. I miss her :(
 

RAGRam

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But would he actually sit out? Talk is cheap.

I don't know, depends on if there's some sort of compensation if you get a career ending injury. If you don't the guaranteed money for a 3rd round pick vs 7th round pick makes it well worth sitting out the year. I'd have to do some research and I'm too lazy for that :whistle:.
 

Alan

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RAGRam with this:
I don't know, depends on if there's some sort of compensation if you get a career ending injury. If you don't the guaranteed money for a 3rd round pick vs 7th round pick makes it well worth sitting out the year. I'd have to do some research and I'm too lazy for that :whistle:.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/5/14/3019947/football-university-rookie-contracts[/QUOTE]
Undrafted Free Agent
UDFA's can sign with any team that calls them, and can do it for any contract length. This is important because free agency requires four years of service in the NFL, so no drafted rookie will ever be a restricted free agent again. However an undrafted free agent could be restricted or even have the exclusive rights tag applied. UDFAs sign for league minimum, which for a rookie is $375,000. A second year player makes $450,000, and a third year player makes $525,000. Fourth year players can make $600,000 as league minimum.

So while a 3rd round contract is worth much more than a 7th round contract UDFA's and 7th rounders sign for crap. If I understand this correctly.

So you need to compare a 7th round contract with a UDFA contract, not with a 3rd round contract. If you compare these 7th round contracts to the UDFA contracts they're virtually the same.
http://www.spotrac.com/research/NFL/2014-nfl-draft-pick-team-allocations-447/

In addition, he isn't eligible to reenter the draft in 2016 so that's a moot point anyway.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...lins-goes-undrafted-not-eligible-for-16-draft
 
Last edited:

RAGRam

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Undrafted Free Agent
UDFA's can sign with any team that calls them, and can do it for any contract length. This is important because free agency requires four years of service in the NFL, so no drafted rookie will ever be a restricted free agent again. However an undrafted free agent could be restricted or even have the exclusive rights tag applied. UDFAs sign for league minimum, which for a rookie is $375,000. A second year player makes $450,000, and a third year player makes $525,000. Fourth year players can make $600,000 as league minimum.

So while a 3rd round contract is worth much more than a 7th round contract UDFA's and 7th rounders sign for crap. If I understand this correctly.

So you need to compare a 7th round contract with a UDFA contract, not with a 3rd round contract. If you compare these 7th round contracts to the UDFA contracts they're virtually the same.
http://www.spotrac.com/research/NFL/2014-nfl-draft-pick-team-allocations-447/

In addition, he isn't eligible to reenter the draft in 2016 so that's a moot point anyway.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...lins-goes-undrafted-not-eligible-for-16-draft[/QUOTE]

From what I understand he can't re-enter because he went undrafted so it's a moot point now.

Had he been drafted his choice would have been to sign a 7th round "for crap" contract vs sitting for a year and taking his chances on where he'd be drafted, the 3rd round seemed like a fair place to "mock" him, it could be earlier could be later, that's the risk your taking, but if there's no injury compensation then the risk would be well worth it.

Plus I believe in this case an UDFA contract is preferable to a 7th round contract because you can fully guarantee an UDFA contract, you can't do the same for a 7th round contract. An UDFA contract is also preferable to sitting for a year, assuming your going to get a fairly decent 2nd contract.
 

Alan

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RAGRam back with this:
Plus I believe in this case an UDFA contract is preferable to a 7th round contract because you can fully guarantee an UDFA contract, you can't do the same for a 7th round contract. An UDFA contract is also preferable to sitting for a year, assuming your going to get a fairly decent 2nd contract.
While what you said about a UDFA contract as compared to a 7th round contract is true, I think your didn't take this into consideration:
"However an undrafted free agent could be restricted or even have the exclusive rights tag applied."
That, my friend, isn't an inconsequential detail.
 

RAGRam

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While what you said about a UDFA contract as copared to a 7th round contract I think your didn't take this part into consideration:
"However an undrafted free agent could be restricted or even have the exclusive rights tag applied."
That, my friend, isn't an inconsequential detail.

That's after 3 years right? A 7th round pick is just given a 4 year contract. Both UDFA and 2nd to 7th round picks are unrestricted FAs after 4 years (1st round picks also if the 5th year option isn't picked up).
 

Alan

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Here you go @RAGRam . I haven't read it yet so I hope it answers all your questions.:)
http://overthecap.com/what-can-lael-collins-earn-as-an-undrafted-free-agent/
"What Can La’El Collins Earn as an Undrafted Free Agent
Posted on May 3, 2015 by Jason Fitzgerald
With the draft over, we hit the fast and furious UDFA signing period, which is where La’El Collins now sits. So let’s take a quick look at the rules regarding the signings, specifically in regards to Collins.

Every undrafted rookie is locked into signing a three year contract. The three year contract will contain the minimum Paragraph 5 salary in each year, which will equal payouts of $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016, and $615,000 in 2017. These are the same numbers as rookies drafted after the 3rd round and many of the players drafted in the third round, so it is not a major loss for Collins of any player who was not projected to be a 2nd round pick.


The UDFA’s are very limited in terms of signing bonus money. I don’t have the final number in front of me but IIRC each team can spend, in total, about $88,000 on all their undrafted rookies. That usually means a large number of players receiving signing bonuses that will not exceed $8,000. So that is a limiting factor for a player who is not drafted. The smallest signing bonus a 7th round pick will receive likely to be about $52,000. So that is a pretty big loss considering for many players the bonus is the only salary they will ever receive.

At the end of the three year contract, every UDFA will be a restricted free agent while a drafted rookie will have a fourth contract year. Teams select from one of three RFA salaries for the UDFA’s. The smallest tender for that year will be $1.785 million. Every drafted rookie (except punters and kickers) is also eligible to see their contracted salary rise to the smallest tender level based on playing time. So if Collins does not have a great career but is ok he will basically trail every drafted rookie that is ok by the signing bonus. However if he excels and earns the 2nd or 1st level tender he will earn at least $2.73 or $3.88 million in the final year. No drafted rookie can do that, so that would allow him to move his overall salary take back into the 2nd round level of the draft.

Every UDFA is extension eligible after just two seasons, so a very good player can get extended much earlier than the draft pick who must play three years. If I was Collins agent and that was a goal of mine I would strongly consider signing with a team like the Bengals, 49ers, Packers, or Patriots among others. These are the teams that typically like to extend talent early if possible and you may get that quicker extension from them if you do play like a first rounder. Similarly teams like the Texans and Giants have already proven they will avoid the RFA process for great talent like Arian Foster or Victor Cruz. Those are the kind of teams you may get that faster value from.

Now there is nothing in the process that prevents a team from guaranteeing large amounts of salary to UDFA. This is how many teams lure a UDFA while complying with the signing bonus rules. It is not uncommon to see a UDFA receive a salary guarantee equal to a Practice Squad salary (slightly over $100,000) and in some cases double that. For Collins that presents an opportunity to attempt to receive a three year guarantee of $1,575,000. That guarantee would be equivalent to a late 2nd rounders guarantee through his signing bonus and salary guarantee.

I doubt a team would be willing to make that investment now, but if Collins waits until the summer to sign they might if his name is cleared. In theory that could also give him time to see how teams depth charts are beginning to shape up and where he will get the most opportunity to play. This is also important because if e starts he would likely be a leader in Performance Based Pay which is based on playing time relative to your cap charge. Last year the league leader received nearly $375,000 in PBP. He would certainly earn more than highly drafted players further shrinking the gap.

So the avenues are there for Collins or any UDFA to make up for losses by not being drafted if they carefully select the team and are quality NFL players. UDFAs are never given the opportunity of a draft pick nor do they usually get the financial security, but they will be rewarded if they prove the NFL scouts wrong for pushing them out of the draft."
 

RAGRam

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Here you go @RAGRam . I haven't read it yet so I hope it answers all your questions.:)
http://overthecap.com/what-can-lael-collins-earn-as-an-undrafted-free-agent/
"What Can La’El Collins Earn as an Undrafted Free Agent
Posted on May 3, 2015 by Jason Fitzgerald
With the draft over, we hit the fast and furious UDFA signing period, which is where La’El Collins now sits. So let’s take a quick look at the rules regarding the signings, specifically in regards to Collins.

Every undrafted rookie is locked into signing a three year contract. The three year contract will contain the minimum Paragraph 5 salary in each year, which will equal payouts of $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016, and $615,000 in 2017. These are the same numbers as rookies drafted after the 3rd round and many of the players drafted in the third round, so it is not a major loss for Collins of any player who was not projected to be a 2nd round pick.


The UDFA’s are very limited in terms of signing bonus money. I don’t have the final number in front of me but IIRC each team can spend, in total, about $88,000 on all their undrafted rookies. That usually means a large number of players receiving signing bonuses that will not exceed $8,000. So that is a limiting factor for a player who is not drafted. The smallest signing bonus a 7th round pick will receive likely to be about $52,000. So that is a pretty big loss considering for many players the bonus is the only salary they will ever receive.

At the end of the three year contract, every UDFA will be a restricted free agent while a drafted rookie will have a fourth contract year. Teams select from one of three RFA salaries for the UDFA’s. The smallest tender for that year will be $1.785 million. Every drafted rookie (except punters and kickers) is also eligible to see their contracted salary rise to the smallest tender level based on playing time. So if Collins does not have a great career but is ok he will basically trail every drafted rookie that is ok by the signing bonus. However if he excels and earns the 2nd or 1st level tender he will earn at least $2.73 or $3.88 million in the final year. No drafted rookie can do that, so that would allow him to move his overall salary take back into the 2nd round level of the draft.

Every UDFA is extension eligible after just two seasons, so a very good player can get extended much earlier than the draft pick who must play three years. If I was Collins agent and that was a goal of mine I would strongly consider signing with a team like the Bengals, 49ers, Packers, or Patriots among others. These are the teams that typically like to extend talent early if possible and you may get that quicker extension from them if you do play like a first rounder. Similarly teams like the Texans and Giants have already proven they will avoid the RFA process for great talent like Arian Foster or Victor Cruz. Those are the kind of teams you may get that faster value from.

Now there is nothing in the process that prevents a team from guaranteeing large amounts of salary to UDFA. This is how many teams lure a UDFA while complying with the signing bonus rules. It is not uncommon to see a UDFA receive a salary guarantee equal to a Practice Squad salary (slightly over $100,000) and in some cases double that. For Collins that presents an opportunity to attempt to receive a three year guarantee of $1,575,000. That guarantee would be equivalent to a late 2nd rounders guarantee through his signing bonus and salary guarantee.

I doubt a team would be willing to make that investment now, but if Collins waits until the summer to sign they might if his name is cleared. In theory that could also give him time to see how teams depth charts are beginning to shape up and where he will get the most opportunity to play. This is also important because if e starts he would likely be a leader in Performance Based Pay which is based on playing time relative to your cap charge. Last year the league leader received nearly $375,000 in PBP. He would certainly earn more than highly drafted players further shrinking the gap.

So the avenues are there for Collins or any UDFA to make up for losses by not being drafted if they carefully select the team and are quality NFL players. UDFAs are never given the opportunity of a draft pick nor do they usually get the financial security, but they will be rewarded if they prove the NFL scouts wrong for pushing them out of the draft."

Pretty much exactly what I was saying (but put far more clearly (y)) I didn't realise it could get as good as a 2nd round contract for an elite UDFA (if such a thing exists).
 

Prime Time

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Alan posting something without reading it first and admitting it, lol. I love this red font back and forth.

Here you go @RAGRam . I haven't read it yet so I hope it answers all your questions.:)
 

Alan

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Prime Time delaying my nap:
Stuff.
I was about to take a nap when I read his previous reply and I didn't want to leave it hanging in the air so I did a quick search for more info. Whether it supported my case or not my priority is the discussion and not who's right or wrong so my nap beat out taking the time to read it.

I've been trying to start my nap for the last 20 minutes but I keep getting quotes and "I'm Mad As Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" :mad:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok

Back in a couple of hours.