Pro Ready...

[Ramhusker]

I'm so glad I'm not sold on either guy. I'll take either. It will keep me from watching the other guy's career too closely.

 

[Wolfecola]

For those who have seen Goff play a lot, do you think this video is equally a fair assessment?

I didn't watch either of these two quarterbacks until we traded up into the first pick, honestly, and I'll be happy with either one... but Goff just seems like something special. This is my favorite game tape of his so far:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVr50uEtHs


The play at 9:13... wow. This was against Arizona State, too, and not Northwest Central Blue Mountain Valley University.

 

[…..]

1500/600 = 2.5

2.5 isn't "nearly 4x"

And NDSU beat the last 5 FBS schools they faced, so the talent disparity and "speed" is grossly exaggerated. Many FBS schools pad their schedules and try to avoid "trap" games.

Just look at Fresno State and some of the other schools from the "weaker" conferences who are damn good. They can't even GET scheduled games with the top schools because the top schools are afraid of losing. But you can bet Alabama is going to trounce East Southwest Louisiana Polytechnic University 85-0... It's a big joke. It's a HUGE part of the reasons some of these big schools don't want a playoff. You can't have some little school come in and beat you when you've already been anointed all season... especially with 22 fewer scholarships...

You can't tell me that NDSU wouldn't have beaten plenty of teams in the SEC this season. Memphis? C'mon... Vandy? Really?

You can only play against who's in front of you and I'm certain if teams would step up against NDSU, they'd play them. I know for a few years UCLA tried that... and they got SPANKED... (I'm a UCLA fan...) so they quit scheduling those tough early games.

I dunno what's gonna happen with their careers, but to say that Div IAA is appreciably slower than IA in some cases is true, but isn't always. There's overlap. There isn't this massive gap between the two.

Your point is taken, but also overkill. "Plenty" of teams in the SEC? By plenty, do you mean more than 2? You mention 2 teams, but I don't recall Memphis ever moving to the SEC. Personally I think they could have beaten S. Carolina, but the point is moot. What is more measurable is not the one or two wins they might have gotten against a quality opponent, but rather the daily grind of facing that level of talent week in and week out. You mention 5 straight teams, but you fail to mention they only played 1 per year since 2011...so yes, that equals 5

This is not Appalachian State beating Michigan we're talking about. Its can they play Michigan, then Ohio State, then stop the Badgers run game, then go into Happy Valley and come out alive. Then take on a nasty Iowa team that's pissed off cause they just got beat at home by Iowa State. All in 5 consecutive weeks.

Its big boy football being played in big boy conferences. Every day, every week.

If you're going to minimize that then congrats, you're the only one who knows the perception is a sham.

You could make a much more valid argument if you would just say, despite the lack of quality competition, Carson Wentz transcends the historical norm by showcasing superior play.

 

[FloridaBison]

I didn't watch either of these two quarterbacks until we traded up into the first pick, honestly, and I'll be happy with either one... but Goff just seems like something special. This is my favorite game tape of his so far:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVr50uEtHs


The play at 9:13... wow. This was against Arizona State, too, and not Northwest Central Blue Mountain Valley University.

Thanks Wolfecola!

 

[Mackeyser]

Your point is taken, but also overkill. "Plenty" of teams in the SEC? By plenty, do you mean more than 2? You mention 2 teams, but I don't recall Memphis ever moving to the SEC. Personally I think they could have beaten S. Carolina, but the point is moot. What is more measurable is not the one or two wins they might have gotten against a quality opponent, but rather the daily grind of facing that level of talent week in and week out. You mention 5 straight teams, but you fail to mention they only played 1 per year since 2011...so yes, that equals 5

This is not Appalachian State beating Michigan we're talking about. Its can they play Michigan, then Ohio State, then stop the Badgers run game, then go into Happy Valley and come out alive. Then take on a nasty Iowa team that's pissed off cause they just got beat at home by Iowa State. All in 5 consecutive weeks.

Its big boy football being played in big boy conferences. Every day, every week.

If you're going to minimize that then congrats, you're the only one who knows the perception is a sham.

You could make a much more valid argument if you would just say, despite the lack of quality competition, Carson Wentz transcends the historical norm by showcasing superior play.

That's not what I was saying. The contention was that NDSU was incapable of beating the "superior" talent of bigger, faster conferences.

I stated that when presented with that opportunity, they DID.

Now, would they do it week in and week out? Probably not, but, then again, I don't know. They certainly weren't afforded that opportunity. I know that was the argument against Fresno State for the longest time.

And that's the scam. "Who've you beat?" "Everyone in front of us and a couple of the guys from your area who tried to play us. You guys wanna play us?" "Sorry, no room on the schedule"

Later, "You guys didn't beat anybody." "...."

Also, NDSU beating Kansas shouldn't have been an upset. Not if you paid attention. If you're only rooting for conferences, then yeah.

Point being that I'm NOT saying that NDSU was the best team in all of college football. Not that at all. What I was saying is that as we've seen with PLENTY of really good schools, both in smaller conferences like what Fresno State was in (I forget what it was called, I think BYU was in it also) as well as top Div IAA schools, they just can't get scheduled with other top programs.

Colleges schedule their non-conference games almost like boxing, if you didn't know... it's pathetic.

So, HOW are these smaller teams supposed to "prove" themselves against other talented teams if they won't play them? How?

Fresno State waged a media campaign and bullied their way onto some schedules, but NDSU has won five straight Div IAA National Championships. You think anyone wants to have one of their first three games against them? That's the very definition of a trap game...

Lastly, I got Memphis and Missouri confused. Mea culpa... The point still stands. Pretty sure NDSU beats Missouri, SoCar, UK, and Vandy. The point being that if there was the massive disparity, NDSU couldn't beat any FBS team and NDSU could beat plenty of them. We can't know week in and week out if they would beat other FBS teams, due to financial reasons, not competitive ones, they aren't in a position to do that.

 

[…..]

Ok that is true, Major college football teams fear the trap game and there are several examples of teams like NDSU .....but taking all that under consideration, I think you error on the side of FBS conferences because for every 1 Jerry Rice, there are 1000 Brian Quicks.

As a general rule I mean. This year, Carson Wentz could very well be Jerry Rice.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

That's not what I was saying. The contention was that NDSU was incapable of beating the "superior" talent of bigger, faster conferences.

I stated that when presented with that opportunity, they DID.

Now, would they do it week in and week out? Probably not, but, then again, I don't know. They certainly weren't afforded that opportunity. I know that was the argument against Fresno State for the longest time.

And that's the scam. "Who've you beat?" "Everyone in front of us and a couple of the guys from your area who tried to play us. You guys wanna play us?" "Sorry, no room on the schedule"

Later, "You guys didn't beat anybody." "...."

Also, NDSU beating Kansas shouldn't have been an upset. Not if you paid attention. If you're only rooting for conferences, then yeah.

Point being that I'm NOT saying that NDSU was the best team in all of college football. Not that at all. What I was saying is that as we've seen with PLENTY of really good schools, both in smaller conferences like what Fresno State was in (I forget what it was called, I think BYU was in it also) as well as top Div IAA schools, they just can't get scheduled with other top programs.

Colleges schedule their non-conference games almost like boxing, if you didn't know... it's pathetic.

So, HOW are these smaller teams supposed to "prove" themselves against other talented teams if they won't play them? How?

Fresno State waged a media campaign and bullied their way onto some schedules, but NDSU has won five straight Div IAA National Championships. You think anyone wants to have one of their first three games against them? That's the very definition of a trap game...

Lastly, I got Memphis and Missouri confused. Mea culpa... The point still stands. Pretty sure NDSU beats Missouri, SoCar, UK, and Vandy. The point being that if there was the massive disparity, NDSU couldn't beat any FBS team and NDSU could beat plenty of them. We can't know week in and week out if they would beat other FBS teams, due to financial reasons, not competitive ones, they aren't in a position to do that.

Pretty weak list of teams on NDSUs 2015 schedule Mac, what FBS teams they DID play were bottom feeders (San Diego St was the closest thing to a real team) unless you care to list another respectable opponent I missed, hey why you're at it, list the entire schedule of teams Wentz faced, then for the hell of it compare it to Cals schedule.

You do know there are minor leagues and Major Leagues, dismissing level of competition is ridiculous, didn't Wentzs replacement lead them to 8-0? Holy crap does that mean he's a high nfl draft prospect also?

There is no way in freaking hell the Rams blow this pick by picking Wentz... Many here are saying they'll be happy with either, I am not one, I will be severely pissed if they are dumb enough to pass on Goff

But alas, they won't - too much at stake here.

 

[Mackeyser]

Ok that is true, Major college football teams fear the trap game and there are several examples of teams like NDSU .....but taking all that under consideration, I think you error on the side of FBS conferences because for every 1 Jerry Rice, there are 1000 Brian Quicks.

As a general rule I mean. This year, Carson Wentz could very well be Jerry Rice.

Well, and yeah, I wasn't making the case for the conference NDSU is in (as much as I try to remember it, I just...can't....mid...missouri river valley....something....I dunno) as much as when a special team comes along like Fresno State or NDSU or some others, they can't get on the slate and challenge all comers and really go for it. They just...can't.

Would NDSU be willing to play Alabama or LSU or Auburn? Yep. And I'd love to see it. It's about time the big schools stopped scheduling DeVry-Baton Rouge and actually put tough non-conference games on the schedule...

And I agree and Wentz and Rice. I see that same relentlessness. He's got that "little brother attitude" that he's going to fight to be better no matter what. It totally makes sense that he had a big brother 3 years older. That totally fits. Cleveland deserves to finally have a kid like that. Philly? Those battery chuckers? I dunno...

 

[FloridaBison]

I certainly don't think any one person here is going to change the perception of NDSU's level of competition or the FCS. Given this, It lends little to the debate IMO.

I agree that on the whole the FCS is a clear downgrade from the BCS. I would only challenge people to realize that virtually none have attended a Bison game against anyone in their conference. That virtually none have compared size of lineman, 40 speeds or any metric of the Bison against the BCS average. Perception is the prevailing wind.

For rack and stack guys, Sagarin grades ALL Division 1 teams. Sagarin is a respected source. It shows that the Bison would consistently beat just over half of all BCS teams with 22 fewer Scholarships. Yet even with that metric, most reading this will still have little respect for the competition in the FCS. I could go on and on but lets be honest, it won't matter.

The American military never thought the Japanese would/could ever dare strike the US on its own soil and definitely not by sea.
The bombing of Pearl Harbor suggests otherwise.

Regardless, this has little to do with the debate. For me I see clear differences and similarities between Goff and Wentz. I see a significant disparity with the understanding of offensive and defensive sets by each QB. When you consider just how complex the NDSU offense is and how well Wentz discussed it versus Goff it is obvious. There is a big disparity.

The importance of the mastery of the game is not my opinion alone. Coaches, and Scouts know this. If you disagree, cool. Just ask yourself why when actual pros see it differently.

 

[Mackeyser]

Pretty weak list of teams on NDSUs 2015 schedule Mac, what FBS teams they DID play were bottom feeders (San Diego St was the closest thing to a real team) unless you care to list another respectable opponent I missed, hey why you're at it, list the entire schedule of teams Wentz faced, then for the hell of it compare it to Cals schedule.

You do know there are minor leagues and Major Leagues, dismissing level of competition is ridiculous, didn't Wentzs replacement lead them to 8-0? Holy crap does that mean he's a high nfl draft prospect also?

There is no way in freaking hell the Rams blow this pick by picking Wentz... Many here are saying they'll be happy with either, I am not one, I will be severely pissed if they are dumb enough to pass on Goff

But alas, they won't - too much at stake here.

Oh, dear Lord. I KNOW they're taking Goff. Been saying it ad nauseum for WEEKS now.

I just said they can only play who's on the schedule...and the scheduling in college football is a scam. Top programs pad their schedules with easy wins in order to improve their chances at a Bowl game...which means more money for the program. Three early wins against East, West and North Cupcake State mean they only have to win 4 games in conference. That's usually a split. Heck, 6-5 some years will get some teams into a lesser game if they're from the SEC or Pac-12. So there's big incentive to stack crap games early. As I stated, UCLA went public and tried to put tough games on early (to prove the principle that quality wins) and it cost them dearly because they got stomped. They weren't as good as they thought and they picked some really tough out of conference games. That business stopped as soon as they could stop it...

I'm over any of the other stuff.

Goff is a Ram. I may not even watch until Saturday...

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Oh, dear Lord. I KNOW they're taking Goff. Been saying it ad nauseum for WEEKS now.

I just said they can only play who's on the schedule...and the scheduling in college football is a scam. Top programs pad their schedules with easy wins in order to improve their chances at a Bowl game...which means more money for the program. Three early wins against East, West and North Cupcake State mean they only have to win 4 games in conference. That's usually a split. Heck, 6-5 some years will get some teams into a lesser game if they're from the SEC or Pac-12. So there's big incentive to stack crap games early. As I stated, UCLA went public and tried to put tough games on early (to prove the principle that quality wins) and it cost them dearly because they got stomped. They weren't as good as they thought and they picked some really tough out of conference games. That business stopped as soon as they could stop it...

I'm over any of the other stuff.

Goff is a Ram. I may not even watch until Saturday...

Well he better be a Ram or the Rams brain trust will have been more easily duped than a referee at a Globetrotter vs Washington Generals game

Btw, UCLA has been 12-0 the past 4 years in out of conference games, 8 of those wins are from the power 5 so I'm kinda missing your reference there amigo

 

[JackDRams]

I didn't watch either of these two quarterbacks until we traded up into the first pick, honestly, and I'll be happy with either one... but Goff just seems like something special. This is my favorite game tape of his so far:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVr50uEtHs


The play at 9:13... wow. This was against Arizona State, too, and not Northwest Central Blue Mountain Valley University.

It doesn't get much prettier then that, does it?

 

[Mackeyser]

Well he better be a Ram or the Rams brain trust will have been more easily duped than a referee at a Globetrotter vs Washington Generals game

Btw, UCLA has been 12-0 the past 4 years in out of conference games, 8 of those wins are from the power 5 so I'm kinda missing your reference there amigo

This is a while back... I was still living in So Cal, so more than 8 years ago. At least....

 

[Old Rock]

illowfight:As I stated on another post, depends on what you want. I don't care about the grand entrance into LA, I'm looking at the long haul. I don't want to win the battle, I want to win the war. Aspire to be a dynasty. I still see more of that in Wentz considering the complete package. Character I can judge, x's and o's and statistics, see Jerry. Still, I know what my eyes see on the field of battle. We will see who wins. Damn, I hope it's the Rams regardless who is right in these delightful debates.

 

[Bisonbacker]

Your point is taken, but also overkill. "Plenty" of teams in the SEC? By plenty, do you mean more than 2? You mention 2 teams, but I don't recall Memphis ever moving to the SEC. Personally I think they could have beaten S. Carolina, but the point is moot. What is more measurable is not the one or two wins they might have gotten against a quality opponent, but rather the daily grind of facing that level of talent week in and week out. You mention 5 straight teams, but you fail to mention they only played 1 per year since 2011...so yes, that equals 5

This is not Appalachian State beating Michigan we're talking about. Its can they play Michigan, then Ohio State, then stop the Badgers run game, then go into Happy Valley and come out alive. Then take on a nasty Iowa team that's pissed off cause they just got beat at home by Iowa State. All in 5 consecutive weeks.

Its big boy football being played in big boy conferences. Every day, every week.

If you're going to minimize that then congrats, you're the only one who knows the perception is a sham.

You could make a much more valid argument if you would just say, despite the lack of quality competition, Carson Wentz transcends the historical norm by showcasing superior play.

I just have to chuckle when I read crap like this. You do realize Goff's win loss record at Cal is also Crap. Just because he played at Cal didn't make Cal this juggernaut of the Pac12. Way to funny.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'm a huge fan of Wentz but the idea that 1-AA is in any way comparable to 1-A is just not accurate.

 

[Bisonbacker]

I'm a huge fan of Wentz but the idea that 1-AA is in any way comparable to 1-A is just not accurate.

How many FCS (I-AA) games have you watched? Your comments show you don't know nearly as much as you think.

 

[dieterbrock]

How many FCS (I-AA) games have you watched? Your comments show you don't know nearly as much as you think.

How many 1-AA players get drafted each year?
It's not comparable.
Doesn't mean NFL caliber players don't go thru 1-AA, just needs to be a special player to do so.
Wentz in my opinion is that type of player

 

[…..]

I just have to chuckle when I read crap like this. You do realize Goff's win loss record at Cal is also Crap. Just because he played at Cal didn't make Cal this juggernaut of the Pac12. Way to funny.

My post is crap huh?

Or are you upset that I didnt give mention to the Golden Gophers?

Welcome to the board, way to make an impact!

 

[LesBaker]

I didn't watch either of these two quarterbacks until we traded up into the first pick, honestly, and I'll be happy with either one... but Goff just seems like something special. This is my favorite game tape of his so far:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZVr50uEtHs


The play at 9:13... wow. This was against Arizona State, too, and not Northwest Central Blue Mountain Valley University.

That is a really bad OL.