OT Greg Robinson Scouting Report - Dave Te Thomas

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iced

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I'm off base? You just proved me right. Nobody cares if you can pull articles of OTHER people listing Jake Matthews as the #1 OT prospect. Unless you can prove that Thomas or whoever you are arguing against did it, you are attributing the opinion of others to them in order to marginalize their opinion of the prospect.

You just proved that.

Learn to read. Why would I pick one person if I'm talking about the general consensus? SMH.

jrry32: Not every person that believes Robinson is the top tackle or an elite prospect does so because of the Combine. That's a generalization intended to marginalize the opinion of the people you disagree with.
iced: The Generalization is that he wasn't the top tackle before the combine - it was hands down Jake Matthews, and it wasn't even a question.


That's the difference. I haven't marginalized your opinion. I haven't said I could pull articles left and right of people rating Robinson as an elite prospect and not Jason Smith...thus you're wrong. That's never been my contention. I have countered your criticism of people who support Robinson that they only support him because of the Combine. It's a bogus argument.
lmao I never said that. Figure out what I'm arguing first

Talk about bogus arguments and flat out wrong information
 

jrry32

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Learn to read. Why would I pick one person if I'm talking about the general consensus? SMH.

Don't tell me to learn to read, I read just fine. This is what you said VERBATIM:
:rolleyes:
wasn't even the #1 tackle before he ran around in shorts..has question marks in pass pro...and he's the #1 tackle?

I-dont-want-to-live-on-this-planet-anymore.png

You responded with that to a thread about Thomas's evaluation of Robinson. You acted like it was preposterous that Thomas could have him evaluated as the #1 Tackle period. Most of all, you acted like the belief that he's the #1 Tackle could only stem from what he did in shorts. Since "he wasn't even the #1 tackle" before then.

The best way to describe that sort of argument is "horseshit". You can't take the opinions of B through Z and attribute them to A because they have a certain consensus. You have to prove A believes that. You didn't. You simply took the easy way out and acted like his evaluation was preposterous and based on what happened at the Combine. You didn't bother to argue his evaluation, you created a strawman.


lmao I never said that. Figure out what I'm arguing first

Talk about bogus arguments and flat out wrong information

No, you said this:
Robinson was not the top OT pre-combine. and I could easily pull articles left and right people listing Jake Matthews as the #1 tackle prospect.

Which is the blatantly obvious reason why I chose the wording and example that I did.
 

iced

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Which is the blatantly obvious reason why I chose the wording and example that I did.

So you're deliberately trying to put words into my mouth?

Your logic is impeccable
That's the difference. I haven't marginalized your opinion. I haven't said I could pull articles left andright of people rating Robinson as an elite prospect and not Jason Smith...thus you're wrong. That's never been my contention. I have countered your criticism of people who support Robinson that they only support him because of the Combine. It's a bogus argument

if you wanna and make up arguments, do that on your own - don't put words in my mouth . you intentionally take what i say out of context and try to put a spin on it

like this
I have countered your criticism of people who support Robinson that they only support him because of the Combine. It's a bogus argument

I never said that or argued that - but continue on with your straw man antics


You responded with that to a thread about Thomas's evaluation of Robinson. You acted like it was preposterous that Thomas could have him evaluated as the #1 Tackle period. Most of all, you acted like the belief that he's the #1 Tackle could only stem from what he did in shorts. Since "he wasn't even the #1 tackle" before then.

The best way to describe that sort of argument is "horseshit". You can't take the opinions of B through Z and attribute them to A because they have a certain consensus. You have to prove A believes that. You didn't. You simply took the easy way out and acted like his evaluation was preposterous and based on what happened at the Combine. You didn't bother to argue his evaluation, you created a strawman.

Actually my contention is that he wasn't the top tackle, pre combine, and a lot of what happened there boosted his stock. It happens every year. But somehow you spin it into this - amazing, simply amazing.
 

DR RAM

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Can we take a deep breath here, before friendships could possibly be fractured?

The thing about a pissing match, is that piss goes everywhere.
 

jrry32

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Iced, I'm not going to continue with this. Frankly, it's not worth it. We're both getting heated and it's going to lead to things said that shouldn't be said. My point from the beginning is that taking the consensus opinion and projecting it on every person that holds that opinion isn't fair or respectful way to argue their opinion. That's it.

Have a nice day.
 

iced

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Iced, I'm not going to continue with this. Frankly, it's not worth it. We're both getting heated and it's going to lead to things said that shouldn't be said.

Have a nice day.

i agree. you too

My point from the beginning is that taking the consensus opinion and projecting it on every person that holds that opinion isn't fair or respectful way to argue their opinion. That's it.

Just to be clear - this was never my intended point. This is just another example of why I prefer talking football over beer than the 'net - things don't get misconstrued
 

oldramfan

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Except like him or not, Thomas isn't the media. He's a former NFL scout that still writes reports for NFL teams. I've read a good bit of his stuff over the years and I respect him. He's one of the best out there in the draftnik community. He's effusive with his praise on the guys he really likes...to the point where I think he gets a little too emotionally invested...and his player comparisons are often over the top on those same players. However, he puts a ridiculous amount of time and detail into his work. And this is not a guy that throws everything together after the season. He scouts during the season and keeps meticulous notes. There were reports on Dennard's stellar coverage metrics from Thomas's notes near the end of the year.

You're generalizing and using it to marginalize the opinion of everyone that disagrees with you. It's a way to argue without actually arguing someone's points. You're basically taking something that other people did and crediting the person you're arguing with doing it...based on zero evidence.

I don't rate Robinson as highly as Thomas. I think he's a lot like Duane Brown as a prospect except bigger and more powerful. Brown was a raw kid in pass pro with great movement skills and athleticism. He could run block though. He was drafted late 1st round by the Texans(and was very underrated imo that draft season). His rookie year at LT, he gave up something like 14 sacks. He struggled in pass pro. I think if Robinson is forced to start at LT as a rookie, he'll do the same(be very inconsistent in pass pro). However, Brown continued to receive coaching, gained experience, polished his technique, and is now one of the NFL's best LTs.

I think Robinson is capable of the same. He's strong as an ox, uber athletic, graceful, and long. With time and coaching, he can play LT at a high level. But I rate Matthews higher because he has many of the same characteristics as Robinson(obviously, not as strong) but is polished and has no glaring flaws. Still, imo, Robinson is a top 6 player in this draft. His ceiling is through the roof. The only concern I have that I can't answer with him is football IQ.

very well said and I agree...
 

Memphis Ram

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #49
they had it right last year for receivers... I always think player rankings are much better in december/january (pre-combine) vs post combine

http://bayarea.sbnation.com/2012/12/28/3813378/nfl-draft-2013-news
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2012/12/13/3762650/2013-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-rankings

I don't think so. Over the years, I've seen early player rankings listing players high that wind up being 3rd day selections and don't do a thing in the league.

Besides, many of those early player rankings don't account for some of the underclassmen that weren't initially expected to declare during the season. It happened with Michael Brockers. What happens is these guys declare and draftnik media (the ones that don't merely copy each other) have to go back re-look at tape/notes and for a conclusion. With this, they get added to a list later than the others and casual fans who either never heard of them or didn't go back and look at their games give their combine performance/official measurables as the sole reason for their so-called rise up draft boards.

BTW, the same writer listed in the links you provided had Texas A&M's Damontre Moore as his top DE, Larry Warford as his 5th rated guard, Kiko Alonso as his 11th ranked ILB in December of that year.
 

OnceARam

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this guy is the definition of ELITE talent.... We could use some of that on the offensive side of the ball.
 

OnceARam

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Robinson, Clowney, Watkins, Matthews, Mack... The fact we're likely to get one of those guys is effin' great!

images

That's not the point. You're supposed to pick one player and argue with everyone else about why he's the best. Otherwise this forum is very boring. ;) :D
 

SierraRam

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That's not the point. You're supposed to pick one player and argue with everyone else about why he's the best. Otherwise this forum is very boring. ;) :D

Ouch. I thought I had in several previous posts about Robinson and Watkins (still can't decide). I just wanted to pay homage to the guys who made our draft more interesting than anyone else's. I'm thankful and bored. :sleep: