Options for St. Louis’ Stadium Issue/Karraker

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RamBill

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Options for St. Louis’ Stadium Issue
By Randy Karraker

http://www.101sports.com/2014/05/27/options-st-louis-stadium-issue/

As the Rams move toward a season that they hope will result in their first playoff appearance since 2004, there are quiet movements afoot to try and solve the Rams’ stadium issue and get them on the path toward a new facility.

In talking to multiple people involved with the process, there appear to be several prerequisites in place before the process can begin. One is that the Edward Jones Dome needs to remain a viable competitor for events such as NCAA basketball tournament action, college football games and pre-Olympic events like swimming, in addition to being a year-round convention facility. That means that somewhere along the line, improvements to the Dome for those purposes must take place – and be paid for.

Secondly, it seems like a public/private partnership is necessary. Neither the public nor Rams owner Stan Kroenke appear to be enthusiastic about paying the entire bill for a stadium. Floating amid the speculation of a deal between the two sides is the issue of land. Where exactly would this facility stand?

An idea has been set forth to offer Kroenke a parcel of land near the Dome and allow him to join with public entities to build there. An area just north of Laclede’s Landing, bounded by 1st street to the east, Broadway to the west, Mullanphy to the north and Cass Street to the south would easily provide enough space for a stadium, with room east of 1st to the riverfront and west of Broadway to I-70 for parking and development.

Missouri Governor Jay Nixon recently joined The Fast Lane, and said he likes the model used in Minneapolis. According to Vikings.com, that calls for the Vikings to pay $477 million of the $975 million cost. The team will generate funds from Stadium Builders Licenses, and also get a loan from the NFL to help pay their portion of the costs.

“I think the Minnesota deal is an interesting one to look at, just because, with the G4 program (which provides teams building stadiums a $200 million loan) and the league being involved in that investment, that’s an important part,” Nixon said. “We look at other deals. I talked to Governor Dayton in Minnesota and other governors around the country. You bet we stay in touch with them, making sure we’re balancing the tax payers’ priorities with the desire to be major league cities.”

In Minnesota, the public will pay $498 million, with the state paying $348 million and the city of Minneapolis paying $150 million for its new fixed-roof facility. That money will be generated by bond sales, a portion of convention center taxes, a pull-tab game tax, bingo and a one-time inventory tax on cigarettes that will generate $36 million.

For St. Louis’ purposes, a competitor for the Dome for climate-controlled events doesn’t make sense. So, an outdoor facility – provided improvements to the Dome – would be the preferred path. That would also mean that, unlike Minneapolis, St. Louis wouldn’t be in the running for a Super Bowl and the economic benefit that accompanies it.(Some university studies suggest the impact of a Super Bowl is as low as $30 million. A study commissioned by the city of Indianapolis by Rockport Analytics claimed the Super Bowl there in 2012 brought in $327 million net to the economy, not to mention $89 million in taxes the city wouldn’t have otherwise generated.)

How could something like this be pulled off in St. Louis? Here’s how. Right now, the state of Missouri, the city of St. Louis and St. Louis County pay into the debt for the Edward Jones Dome/America’s Center. The state’s annual bill is $12 million, with the city and county each paying $6 million. Those bonds are scheduled to mature in 2021, when the state, city and county will have paid the facility off. As St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay’s Chief of Staff, Jeff Rainford, told the Post-Dispatch two years ago, the city generates roughly $166 million a year for the time the entire America’s Center is available for conventions – from February to July every year. Conventions are booked years in advance, and with the NFL schedule not coming out until April, St. Louis is shut out of the major convention business from August through January right now.

If those payments currently going to cover the cost of America’s Center – a hotel/motel tax in the county and general tax revenue from the city and state – could be shifted to a new football facility for 20 years, A total of $480 million would be generated. With the Rams in a new facility, America’s Center could perhaps double its convention business and St. Louis’ hospitality revenue from $166 million annually to $333 million. Because of its central location, experts say that St. Louis has become more attractive than ever as a convention site. It’s cheaper to get to, and more people can attend conferences.

If Kroenke and the local governments could agree on a deal that includes $480 million of public money and he and the league covering the rest, a public/private partnership similar to what Minnesota has could be achieved, with no additional cost to any taxpayers and, in theory, a windfall from additional convention business.

The Rams could generate more revenue from a new stadium, and could get more from parking. There’s space for a tailgating lot between 1st street and the riverfront, and a garage could be built on the lot north of the Dome. A walkway across 70, or a tunnel under the highway similar to what Lumiere has, would generate revenue. Kroenke, the nation’s eighth-largest land owner, could redevelop areas west and north of a stadium, along with Laclede’s Landing.

Governor Nixon says, “Two things are clear. One, we’re proud to be an NFL city, (and it’s) great to have a Missouri owner making the kinds of investments with the coach and the staff they need to (provide) the top level of competition, and then secondly we have a long history with that facility (the Edward Jones Dome). The state of Missouri and other local entities own it, and as we move forward we want to make sure we have a venue that can not only hold the Rams but the Final Four and conventions. I think everyone sees that, and are looking for long term commitments all around.

“We stand ready to work if there’s long term commitments around there, and I think making sure that that facility (the Dome) is one that is used year-round and that can attract events other than NFL games is part of the magic of making sure that we get to the appropriate deal.”

This would be a deal that makes sense for everyone. It provides St. Louis and Missouri the chance to generate more revenue from their convention center, to remain a first-class city with first-class sports, and the opportunity to continue to benefit from the presence of the Rams and the NFL. It provides the franchise the opportunity to build the first-tier facility it desires, with more opportunity for revenue generation than exists at the Dome. And it’s in a spot that would provide Kroenke to develop land, enhance a community and make a ton of money in the process.
 

Big Unit

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I heard Randy discussing this in detail on ESPN101 this afternoon. He brought up some points I hadn't been aware of:

1. i had no idea the Dome brings in $166 Million in convention fees for 6 months every year; extrapolated to $333 Million annually if they have full use of the Dome. I'd assumed the Dome was basically a "white elephant" when not being used for football. But apparently STL is doing well in the convention wars; centrally located, and less costly than Las Vegas, New Orleans, San Diego, etc.

2. I've never thought there was any appetite for public financing contributions; not with the economy as it is. But the support of Governor Nixon is important; and proposed future public funding would not involve new taxes, but would primarily be in the form of additional bonds extending past 2021, when the Dome will be paid off; financed by hotel room taxes; and in the form of donations of land for a stadium to Stan Kroenke. That land now sits idle; and there would be a large lot for tailgating; another for erection of a parking garage. I think ownership of parking by the Rams is key for investment in a new stadium.

3. A Rams stadium near the existing Dome would HAVE to be open air, so as not to compete in the same market as the Dome - FInal Fours, conventions, concerts and the like. That would reduce construction costs; and it's not the problem it would be in Minneapolis, or Chicago, even. St. Louis really is pretty temperate through November, and it's rare that bitter cold becomes an issue.

4. The existing infrastructure could easily handle a new stadium, and suddenly makes sense. Interstate 70 now crosses the Mississippi on the new Stan Musial Bridge, north of the Poplar Street Bridge, which continues to carry Interstate 55 and 44. It flows into downtown by way of Tucker (12th Street), west of downtown, rather than Memorial Drive, etc, right next to the River. Very convenient for access to the Dome, or for a proposed new stadium.

5. An open air stadium wouldn't accommodate a Super Bowl (New York/New Jersey notwithstanding), but that's kind of a one-hit wonder, anyway. If a new stadium were blocks north of the existing Dome, I could perceive a downtown extending from Busch Stadium north, to the Arch and old courthouse, the gentrification of Washington Avenue, the Convention Center and existing Dome, Lumiere Place (casino and Four Seasons Hotel), up to Laclede's Landing (historic, with restaurants, etc.), up to the new Stadium. St. Louis is well into a civic redevelopment program, with green space flowing from the River and Arch to downtown - now separated by the Interstate and Memorial Drive.

6. St. Louis may not be the "ideal" NFL market, because of its size; but it certainly is the equal of cities like Nashville (Titans) or Cincinnati, and is better than Jacksonville. It's a legitimate "3 sport" city (only the 10 largest cities can support NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL), with a rich sports tradition.

7. Apparently the NFL has a program where they will lend $200 Million to existing franchises to finance new stadiums. If the city/county/State anted up half of a $1Billion investment, the NFL offered $200 Million, and the Rams owned parking and concessions, financing suddenly looks more appealing.

Interesting. Now if the Rams are competitive the next five years, and LA can't get its act together - might work.
 

den-the-coach

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IMO it would be a shame if the facility was not a dome or retractable roof. Seems they realize that if they want to host other events especially a Super Bowl. Now they're atleast talking so that is a big plus.
 

RamFan503

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IMO it would be a shame if the facility was not a dome or retractable roof. Seems they realize that if they want to host other events especially a Super Bowl. Now they're atleast talking so that is a big plus.

Exactly
 

rhinobean

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I'd like to see the amount the CVC offered to spend as the public part of the financing of a new stadium. If the Rams are given the land and parking/concessions as part of the deal, that seems appropriate!
 

CGI_Ram

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Even though the economy might not be right, the whole atmosphere is different compared to 1987.

Something will get done.

STL is the 21st TV market. I never understood the small market label. With 32 teams, the NFL doesn't want them to move.
 

den-the-coach

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STL is the 21st TV market. I never understood the small market label. With 32 teams, the NFL doesn't want them to move.

I concur St. Louis football fans IMO have always received a bum rap, it's not they have seen the greatest football played year in and year out. Now we're diehard fans and would watch our Rams if they played in Istanbul, however, not everyone is like us gentlemen.

I loved my Rams in Los Angeles too seems that certain people like to write "Well, they're not like Philadelphia or Chicago fans." And my response is..."Thank the good Lord!" Let us all hope they build a great venue that all of us can be proud of and when that is done a uniform change too.
 

ChrisW

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Options for St. Louis’ Stadium Issue
By Randy Karraker

http://www.101sports.com/2014/05/27/options-st-louis-stadium-issue/



An idea has been set forth to offer Kroenke a parcel of land near the Dome and allow him to join with public entities to build there. An area just north of Laclede’s Landing, bounded by 1st street to the east, Broadway to the west, Mullanphy to the north and Cass Street to the south would easily provide enough space for a stadium, with room east of 1st to the riverfront and west of Broadway to I-70 for parking and development.

It looks like fitting a stadium the same size as the dome in these boundaries would be tight, but with the room to expand over the boundaries for tailgating and parking, it might be doable. I'd be ecstatic if they built something that close to the waterfront. It'd be a cool venue.

Why build a new stadium if you aren't in the bid for Super Bowls? Sure, it's once in every 10 years kinda thing. But it'd be cool to have a retractable roof in case they move the combine to different cities, and other offseason activities.
 
Last edited:

69superbowl

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Unlike some folks who get positively apoplectic whenever the stadium issue or the slim possibility of the Rams moving comes up, I think this is one of the most important topics to keep in the public eye. A new (non dark, non small, non non Superbowl worthy) stadium complex is essential for this team and owner to thrive in St. Louis. Like others above, I believe it will happen and remain in the downtown (think tourism) area. The area deserves it.
 

Thordaddy

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I concur St. Louis football fans IMO have always received a bum rap, it's not they have seen the greatest football played year in and year out. Now we're diehard fans and would watch our Rams if they played in Istanbul, however, not everyone is like us gentlemen.

I loved my Rams in Los Angeles too seems that certain people like to write "Well, they're not like Philadelphia or Chicago fans." And my response is..."Thank the good Lord!" Let us all hope they build a great venue that all of us can be proud of and when that is done a uniform change too.
Well ya know it's a funny thing about those Chi fans,the Bears fans ,the ones that travel anyway I concur,thank God St'L fans aren't that way, but Cubs fans are some of the most fun visiting fans you can imagine , sit next to one and it's like he's a member of the family who roots against your team just to mess with you..

BTW,I agree the new stadium should be a retractable dome ,why in GODS name build something new without utilizing the best current design ? Kroenke can sign a non compete on all current business the Ed does ,but even I would be against a SB in the Lou in an open air stadium.
 

moklerman

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I'm not sure what incentive Kroenke has to build a football only stadium? Why should he concede anything to the CVC? His interests lay far beyond football so I don't know that he's going to give up anything.
 

ChrisW

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I'm not sure what incentive Kroenke has to build a football only stadium? Why should he concede anything to the CVC? His interests lay far beyond football so I don't know that he's going to give up anything.

If he wants money from the city/state, he needs to make sure that the convention center is making money year round. It's a really good source of income for the city. That's his incentive. I have no problem with other venues going to the ED/convention center. But I want Super Bowls in STL, and that doesn't happen without a roof on the stadium. Sign a no-compete, Stan.
 

moklerman

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If he wants money from the city/state, he needs to make sure that the convention center is making money year round. It's a really good source of income for the city. That's his incentive. I have no problem with other venues going to the ED/convention center. But I want Super Bowls in STL, and that doesn't happen without a roof on the stadium. Sign a no-compete, Stan.
Isn't that short term thinking though? Yeah, it's a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a lot of money long term and that's what Kroenke's all about. Long term thinking. Now, land might be an incentive but again, why wouldn't he just buy the land if it meant the difference between doing things the way he wanted and having to conform to other demands?

There was a lot of talk about wanting to make the Rams and St. Louis an international brand and I just don't see how a football only stadium is going to do that. At the very least I'd think he would want something like Lucas Oil Stadium and I could see him wanting to go even bigger with a UOP or Palace in Dallas type of thing. A mecca so to speak. I'll be pretty disappointed if they go with "good enough" and aren't even considered for hosting Super Bowls and other events.
 

Thordaddy

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If he wants money from the city/state, he needs to make sure that the convention center is making money year round. It's a really good source of income for the city. That's his incentive. I have no problem with other venues going to the ED/convention center. But I want Super Bowls in STL, and that doesn't happen without a roof on the stadium. Sign a no-compete, Stan.
Yeah the unfortunate thing about public officials and many who put trust in them is they see static models and a world of a static pie, a business man like Kroenke could double the tourism of the city through the accountability element of private sector enterprise.
Stan could sign to lay off any current Ed business and five years after completion of a domed facility have it doing as much ancillary business as the Ed does AND bring a Super Bowl to this city which the Ed can't do as presently constituted and won't do by remodeling.
In the universe of NFL owners IMO St.Louis hit the jackpot ,a man with Jerry Jones business acumen, and Rooney like interest in his franchise area without the apparent need for the limelight.
We kissed the frog with Bidwell and he waited to turn into being worth it until he moved to Az, we have a great owner here and if we run him off the rest of the league will KNOW this area is just too high maintenance to trouble with, JMO .
 

ChrisW

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The proposed location is actually really good from a traveling perspective, with enough land around it. So, if he's given that land to build on...good for him. Being on the waterfront, you get the vibe that STL is known for.

I would be happy with a building like Lucas Oil Stadium, it's plenty big, and gets to host events such as the combine.

And let's be real. Building the Jerry palace in STL would be like putting granite counter tops in your kitchen in the projects...it adds no real value, and is a waste of money.