Once-in-a-lifetime prospect? Scouts break down Clowney

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LesBaker

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To me the problem with these "One in a lifetime" types is that because they show up so often, like every other draft or so, I'm not sure which one to pick.
 

ChrisW

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I see him also give up on plays if it's not at him. I'm not saying I'm right. But you can't start all three. You want a #2 pick coming off the bench? You're not sitting Long, he just got a nice contract. So when you have potential needs all over the OL and defensive backfield, you want to take a player #2 that isn't starting day 1?

Do you want to pick a tackle to have him play guard?
What CB do you see that would be taken at #2?

I'm all for trading out of #2 and addressing a need when the value fits the need. But if we can't do that, then what? I'm sorry, but no tackle is worth the number 2 pick in this draft.
 

Selassie I

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Something tells me that when this guy signs his first NFL contract... he will no longer be motivated to do anything that requires too much work, and football certainly doesn't seem to be his passion.

I would pass on him. I think he'll be there @ 2,,, I may turn into a Clowney fan as a result,,, bout to find out.
 

LesBaker

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Something tells me that when this guy signs his first NFL contract... he will no longer be motivated to do anything that requires too much work, and football certainly doesn't seem to be his passion.

I would pass on him. I think he'll be there @ 2,,, I may turn into a Clowney fan as a result,,, bout to find out.

You'll be wanting the Rams to Draft him when he does his thing at the Pajama Olympics.

That's how you are......lol
 

bwdenverram

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Do you want to pick a tackle to have him play guard?
What CB do you see that would be taken at #2?

I'm all for trading out of #2 and addressing a need when the value fits the need. But if we can't do that, then what? I'm sorry, but no tackle is worth the number 2 pick in this draft.

My hope is we trade out of #2. I don't think anyone is really worth the pick this year for us. I'm more a Watkins guys but even that's still a hard choice. If we stay at #2 I don't know to be honest. I think Matthews or Robinson are what we need but who knows.
I'd rather get a OL, CB or safety in Rd1 (if not Watkins) but at lower spots.
 

bwdenverram

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BTW ChrisW- If we don't sign Saffold and Long doesn't come back 100% you'll be thinking about the OL a lot harder. Wells and Dahl may or may not be back. Then that shiny new toy we got at #2 can watch Bradford or Clemens get killed all day with no protection.
 

Ramifications

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Just as it wouldn't be fair to just look at his 2012 highlights, without also looking at his 2013 highlights (maybe he was hurt?), the converse is also true... Here are his 2012 highlights, to balance out and lend perspective to his evaluation. Stats (40-14, 23.5 TFL, 13 sacks, 3 FFs). One thing I like is that at his best, it looks like he already plays the run better than Long (lucky to break 30 solo tackles) or Quinn. I'm not a scout, but a buzz phrase that comes up a lot is converting speed to power, which he appears to be great at, and this is probably a reason why he is a historically good prospect. I question whether he can really bend around the edge and have the acrobatic, Gumby-like flexibility of elite speed rushers, but Reggie White did it more with power (of course he was almost like a DE/DT-tweener size-wise), so maybe Clowney will be a speed/power hybrid at the next level.

 

Ramifications

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BTW ChrisW- If we don't sign Saffold and Long doesn't come back 100% you'll be thinking about the OL a lot harder. Wells and Dahl may or may not be back. Then that shiny new toy we got at #2 can watch Bradford or Clemens get killed all day with no protection.

Do Wells and Dahl have large roster bonuses kicking in before free agency starts (sounds like Finnegan is due $3 million in about a week)? If not, we can wait and see what happens with Saffold before deciding on Wells and Dahl. Very possible not all three leave.

* We could very easily retain most of the OL that looked so dominant against CHI and SEA. Not seeing the worst OL in the league (noted above by Gator, not you)?
 

CGI_Ram

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I'm taking Clowney at #2.

But I think we trade down.

If Watkins is available, he's my target. Otherwise it's OL all the way.
 

mr.stlouis

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And once in a decade is one hell of an honor. Once in a lifetime??? Good love the Pre-draft hype... but dam. This is like a once in six decades guy now??? Yep... he has a whole 3.5 sacks to prove it. I think he could be great but can we see him play a down in the NFL first?
 

Ramifications

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To me the problem with these "One in a lifetime" types is that because they show up so often, like every other draft or so, I'm not sure which one to pick.

If he is better than Mario Williams and Peppers, than he isn't an every other draft player (not at that position, anyways), he would be more like a once a decade/generation-type talent. Calvin Johnson was, without a doubt in my mind, the greatest physical specimen and athlete at WR in league history (Randy Moss was pretty good, too, but not as big). Luck was the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning (some would say Elway). I'm not sure about Suh, who got off to a strong start but IMO has disappointed in recent years, but one scout stated Clowney belonged with Johnson, Suh and Luck as the highest graded prospects he had ever evaluated across all positions. If he fulfills his potential, I don't have much doubt he is a rare and special talent.

Lifetime sounds like hyperbole (but again, if he is the Calvin Johnson of DEs, he could be the greatest physical specimen and athlete the position has seen, so far). IF he is the best since Reggie White (obvioiusly a massive IF, but hypothetically), he began his career with the Memphis Showboats in 1984, so exactly 30 years ago - call it a generation and a half. If the best before White was Deacon Jones who came up in 1961, over a half century since then. Again, a big IF, but if he lives up to the hype, these kinds of pass rushers don't come around the pike often. Even is he was "only" as good or a comparable talent to Quinn, we could be the only team in league history to have two players crack 20 sacks in a season (I'm sure the mark is lower, don't know if two have ever even had 15+ in a season?).
 
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LesBaker

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If he is better than Mario Williams and Peppers, than he isn't an every other draft player (not at that position, anyways), he would be more like a once a decade/generation-type talent. Calvin Johnson was, without a doubt in my mind, the greatest physical specimen and athlete at WR in league history (Randy Moss was pretty good, too, but not as big). Luck was the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning (some would say Elway). I'm not sure about Suh, who got off to a strong start but IMO has disappointed in recent years, but one scout stated Clowney belonged with Johnson, Suh and Luck as the highest graded prospects he had ever evaluated across all positions. If he fulfills his potential, I don't have much doubt he is a rare and special talent.

You just named how many players that are once a decade?

Williams, Peppers, Johnson, Luck and Suh.

That's kind like more than one every other year in the last 8 years isn't it?
 

The Rammer

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I can't see Mr. Clowney as a once in a lifetime prospect. He disappears entirely in games regardess of being double teamed or not. What happens in the NFL when he gets frustrated and the single/double teams doesn't allow him to be successful and is a millionaire and wants to let out agression in a new Ferrari and hits the road going 150? Hopefully nothing wrose happens. I just see him as a land mine waiting for a team to walk on him.
 

tonyl711

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pretty much every year you have a once in a decade player and while some almost live up to the hype, most don't come close. this kid had had his HC call him out publicly, IMO he had to be really messing up for his HC to put that in print. we have had one of the best Olines in the NFL 2 years running, we need Oline, C, Safety and LB way more than we need a DE, fix whats broken first.
 

bwdenverram

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Do Wells and Dahl have large roster bonuses kicking in before free agency starts (sounds like Finnegan is due $3 million in about a week)? If not, we can wait and see what happens with Saffold before deciding on Wells and Dahl. Very possible not all three leave.

* We could very easily retain most of the OL that looked so dominant against CHI and SEA. Not seeing the worst OL in the league (noted above by Gator, not you)?

Right now unless someone is cut and or re-structured we cannot easily sign anyone. We have no cap room. That's why you hear so much about letting guys like Finnegan go to save room for FA. Saffold is going to cost a few $$ to re-sign.
 

bwdenverram

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Just as it wouldn't be fair to just look at his 2012 highlights, without also looking at his 2013 highlights (maybe he was hurt?), the converse is also true... Here are his 2012 highlights, to balance out and lend perspective to his evaluation. Stats (40-14, 23.5 TFL, 13 sacks, 3 FFs). One thing I like is that at his best, it looks like he already plays the run better than Long (lucky to break 30 solo tackles) or Quinn. I'm not a scout, but a buzz phrase that comes up a lot is converting speed to power, which he appears to be great at, and this is probably a reason why he is a historically good prospect. I question whether he can really bend around the edge and have the acrobatic, Gumby-like flexibility of elite speed rushers, but Reggie White did it more with power (of course he was almost like a DE/DT-tweener size-wise), so maybe Clowney will be a speed/power hybrid at the next level.



Fair enough. He had a great 2012. 2013, not so much. And I worry about players that people say is lazy and takes plays off.
And to be really fair for both of us, we shouldn't compare college stats or plays to NFL plays. Big difference. He may be better than Long (at some point) but I wouldn't say the same about Quinn. He's already a beast.
 

BonifayRam

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Well Long played in a 3-4 i believe at UVA, and played at a helluva level I'd have to think it would be easier for a 3-4 DE to move inside than a 4-3 DE also be more productive.

Chris Long as a senior in Virginia's 3-4 defense, Long recorded 14 sacks. That system he played in called more for him to occupy blockers than to get after the quarterback. Some profiles said that Chris was versatility to play defensive end in either a 3-4 or 4-3 alignment, and possibly the under-tackle position in a 4-3.

I not sure about that last line myself. But you know Chris is smart enough to play it if it was needed. Chris Long is a class act!