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OL or WR? Looky here...

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by RFIP, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Su'a-Filo - Late 1st round
    Yankey - Top 10 picks of the 2nd or last 5 picks of the first
    Cooks - Same range as Yankey
    Beckham Jr. - Between picks #16 and #32

    But, these are just guesses. Can't ever accurately predict what will happen on draft day.

    That would be a great argument to make...to the person who said this. I didn't so it doesn't apply to me. Not trying to be mean, I just didn't ever make that argument.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  2. blackbart Well-Known Member

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    LOL :cheers:
     
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  3. Alan Well-Known Member

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    12 pages! upload_2014-3-16_23-49-48.jpeg upload_2014-3-16_23-50-12.jpeg Congratulations!
     
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  4. RamsOfCastamere Active Member

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    This sounds great and like the more responsible approach, but I still want Watkins. The sexy pick appeals-- and I'm young and still think with my... :D
     
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  5. iced Well-Known Member

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    I can't ever recall the last time 3 Guards went that close within each other. Seems to me you might get one or 2 in the first, then like 5-6 sprinkled throughout rounds 2-3

    Coulda sworn I've heard you say that we can't rely on Long because of his health
     
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  6. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    2012 NFL Draft
    #24 - DeCastro
    #27 - Zeitler
    #40 - Silatolu

    Maybe in regards to him playing out the entirety of his contract but I don't recall saying we can't rely on him playing in 2014.

    You lost me there, Memphis. Watkins isn't Calvin Johnson(who is, though) but he's a match-up problem due to his athleticism. His official 40 time may not reflect it but that guy is scary fast. Like Torrey Smith, his 40 time doesn't adequately represent his football speed. And that's a match-up problem. When you add in that unlike most deep threats, he's actually a natural hands catcher and a physical runner after the catch. He can be quite dangerous.

    When you look at Torrey Smith's ability to run by defenders and Pierre Garcon's ability to create after the catch, you see both those elements in Watkins's game. He can be one heck of a scary match-up in the NFL if utilized right and if he's willing to work at it. Don't sleep on this kid. He's plenty talented. AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald tier as a prospect? No. But he's on that tier below.
     
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  7. iced Well-Known Member

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    I was thinkin more of Josh Gordon with the way he was turning short catches into huge gains
     
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  8. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't have Gordon's size, frame, or physical strength. But he would produce well in that Norv Turner system doing similar things to what Gordon did last year.
     
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  9. iced Well-Known Member

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    Height I'd agree with - Frame and build i'll disagree with. Man is big... but more important, the skill set is very identical
     
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  10. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Gordon is 6'3" 225, Watkins is 6'1" 210. It's just not a comparison. Watkins is well built for his size but Gordon is big and very strong.

    It's like when a certain poster(not you) tried to argue that Watkins's hands are on par with Fitzgerald's. I think people are exaggerating a bit with the kid. I like him but he doesn't have Fitzgerald's hands or Gordon's build and strength.

    Now, if you were to say he has Pierre Garcon's build, strength and YAC skills? I'd agree. And Garcon is one of the best in the game at yards after catch. He was #8 in average YAC and #4 in broken tackles(among WRs with 50+ targets) in 2013.

    Interestingly enough, Givens was actually #2 in the NFL in average YAC in 2013. Don't ask me how. :LOL:
    (my guess would be all those 3 yard drag routes against man coverage that he caught and picked up 15-20 yards on...Watkins and Tavon would both kill on those type of routes as well)
     
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  11. iced Well-Known Member

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    Yea I can see the Garcon comparison.. Wow @ fitzgerald lol...I wouldn't go that far.. I mean, don't you have to have atleast one video dubbed "The Catch" to even qualify for such praise? :LOL:

    Also, Gordon was timed a 4.52, Watkins was timed a 4.43... so there is some trade off, but still a nice build. Can break tackles and go over the top.
     
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  12. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how. I'm not saying he couldn't be a match-up problem. Tavon Austin could be a match-up problem if utilized right and he's willing to work at it. I'm saying that he's not a rare physical freak type of matchup problem ala the AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Josh Gordon, Demaryius Thomas, etc.. Those guys are matchup problems period.

    BTW, Thomas looks to have a clone in this draft, named Donte Moncrief, that few seemed to have noticed and/or even mentioned.
     
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  13. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed Moncrief. I think he needs to land in the right scheme to be effective but I've also used that comparison for him.

    I disagree with you though, I do think he has the athletic ability to be a match-up problem period.
     
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  14. OnceARam Well-Known Member

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    I forgot what we were arguing about now. Sorry.

    I just like to argue with you in general because you're so dead set on Watkins. To your point on TA being an "all around playmaker" as opposed to a WR - I don't see the difference. It's not like he's Hester that can't catch or run a route. I think he just had rookie issues. We need another season from him before we know what we have. Or two. Givens is only on this third season.

    Truth be told I think the issue is more about the QB position than the WR position. Guys that leave the Rams play well else where. Look a Avery. Look at Gibson in Miami, last season, before he got hurt. He was having a good year. Played well. I saw a few games as my brother is a Miami fan.

    Oh and my draft capital, I meant the value of the pick - not the salary cap numbers. And I agree with you on Jason Smith - that pick set our franchise back, big time. Of course this is an argument to take a OT... ;)
     
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  15. iced Well-Known Member

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    for someone who is who dead set on arguing with me you truly don't understand my argument :D

    as i have said, many times - I don't care who they upgrade the starting outside wide receiver position.. i don't care if its Watkins or Evans; I don't believe what we have now will produce at the level we need it.

    People can chalk it up to Clemens and the run heavy offense all they want - fact remains Chris Givens has been incredibly unproductive regardless - go back to his last 12 games with bradford or last 2013 season.

    Only Givens and Hakeem Nicks (whom was cut by the giants) were the starting "#1" receivers who went without scoring a touchdown in the nfl........ 104 other receivers in the NFL managed to get at least one...

    I would love Watkins at #2 - sure, absolutely... if we can't get him, oh well..but I feel that what we have right now out wide will not suffice; especially if we want to fight for the division crown..

    you tell me givens shouldn't be the #1, and then i ask who is? Pettis - who's snaps extremely decreased from the get go? Or quick, who only got 35% of the snaps? (and do i really need to go into him?)... how about stedman - after a couple games,are you really ready to put your whole future faith in him at wide out?

    And most importantly - do you believe any said receivers would be better than Watkins/Evans/another high receiver we would get from this draft...let alone have a bigger impact
     
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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  16. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Tavon Austin?

    As far as the bigger impact...if we're speaking about 2014, yea, I think it's very possible we have a WR or TE on this roster that would have a greater impact than Watkins/Evans would as a rookie. Rookie WRs are typically more miss than hit.

    Personally, I'd rather us use the depth of this class to our advantage and grab a guy like Jordan Matthews in the second round over Watkins in the top 5.
     
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  17. iced Well-Known Member

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    Tavon is not going to fit that role - for whatever reason, schotty refuses to use him as such.

    I'm speaking bigger impact now - and down the line, in 4 or 5 years...
     
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  18. OnceARam Well-Known Member

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    I just don't think we need a true #1 WR to win ball games. (Thanks for reminding me what it was that we're arguing about.)

    I also think that we haven't seen enough out of the QB position to know what we have with the talent we currently have.

    I also don't think that we have the OL in place to utilize the talent that we do have.

    So those are the tenets of my stance, which is why I draw the conclusion that we need to go OL early - rather than drafting Watkins.

    If we had the OL in place (i.e., a long-term solution at LT) then I would be all in for Watkins.

    Evans is an entirely different conversation. I would defer to other's arguments on him and echo the sentiment that we already have an "Evan's type" receiver in the form of Cook.

    Also, I think it's too early to give up on Givens. One more year! One more year! :)
     
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  19. iced Well-Known Member

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    Which has never been my argument. My argument has been the production at wide receiver has been absolutely abysmal, for 6 years.

    I have said multiple times that the receiver position needed to be addressed - that doesn't necessarily mean a #1 receiver, that means receivers that are better than what we have. Regardless of how they address it (by FA or draft).

    Through the draft, I see a player that has the capability of being a #1.... If he wasn't there or if there wasn't a "potentially #1 WR type", I'd still be pounding the table to upgrade the position.

    I disagree - I think we only need a LG.

    And I don't like the idea of drafting a tackle to play guard - just because there isn't a chance warmack in the draft doesn't mean you should force it. I get people want him to Guard for a year - but Jake is signed for 3 more years, and I don't see any reason why they would shred that contract up. We've seen how loyal they are players that are important to them. Think of Scott Wells, who has missed way more time than Jake, is older, and has a high cap. They kept him, and he's not nearly as good as Jake.
     
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  20. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    For now. But, I haven't read anything that says he's out of the woods yet.
     
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