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OL or WR? Looky here...

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by RFIP, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. iced Well-Known Member

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    1)But that's not the formula for a winning team - gotta have talent spread out every where, not just one position or a couple - especially with premium picks.
    2)If you're drafting with the plan that you're going to lose both a Tackle and Swing tackle, then why bother signing both to big money deals? That's not a good allocation of money


    And if you want Bradford to stay upright, Robinson I think has the potential to be the riskiest of all the linemen when it comes to pass pro....he'll be dominant in the run game, but his technique is ugly and at times has left a lot to be desired of . Hence upside. You're banking on this kids athleticism, and ability to learn....talent that you have to mold, thats not already there
     
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  2. mr.stlouis Well-Known Member

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    1. Winning in the trenches is a GREAT formula for winning, man. We have the QB, we have the super freak TE, we have an complete TE in Kendricks, we have the blazing WR's AND a couple really solid possessional receivers in Bailey and Pettis. We even have our own "?" WR with vast upside in Quick. We got it! We do not have a durable OL with the depth to survive an NFL season.

    2. We don't have many holes, iced. SS, CB, LB... all can be had with later picks. In fact we actually have a decent starter at our weakest LB'ing spot so I don't really consider that a hole. We signed Saffold and Long because they the best at what they do when healthy. Guys get hurt, it's a part of football. Every team experiences injuries throughout the season. Not have the depth to pick up the slack is the real problem here.

    We rule the trenches for 16 games, we're a playoff team. It's that simple...

    Who would make a bigger impact than the guys I'm suggesting? Watkins is goods really good prospect, but he wouldn't do more for our team than Robinson.

    The OL will be the key to our success along with the overall health of our core players.

    What about Matthews's flaws? His run blocking skills equivocate Robibson's pass blocking skills. Being we're a run first team, I'm going with Robinson.
     
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  3. iced Well-Known Member

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    I'm not just Watkins - I'm for Evans as well. Either one of these 2.

    1)I'm not saying it isn't. But Premium picks she be spread around - spread it out as much as possible so every group can have a big strength to it.... And yea, we've had a LOT of upside before and missed...Jason Smith is a prime example.

    2)It's a bad investment then. If we're drafting a tackle then cut Long - that's $8m that could be invested in another position.. Look at the free agent Wide Receiver Market and go after a guy like James Jones or someone else - there's plenty of quality upgrades.. Otherwise you're investing a lot of Premium , we don't have a whole lot of, into a position that already has not only a quality player but a Top 5/Pro bowl level...and the idea is to spend a premium pick based on "if's"....when you could have gotten a guard, which would have been a full time starter.

    And last I checked there are plenty of first round tackles currently starting that were drafted in the 1st but outside the top 10 as well. Just like you can get "quality receivers later" (which by the way, how has that worked out so far? Considering we still have question marks and the first real answer came in the form of Tavon Austin, a first round pick.).

    You can't say you can get position x at draft spot y and apply it as a global norm by only researching the HoF players and ignoring the one's that don't succeed.

    I'll say this much though - one thing that worries the hell out of me is the Rams and drafting offensive linemen in the first.. The last time one worked out was Orlando pace....
     
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  4. mr.stlouis Well-Known Member

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    I can only reply to so much of that because I gotta go to bed. Here's a run down... I'm jumping around a bit.

    -Robinson is a heck of a lot better prospect than Smith. That's not even close. Not to mention Smith couldn't dominate at any position of the OL, we at a minimum know Robinsin will do very well at OG.

    -I'm not even thinking of comparing these guys to HOF'ers or bust picks at this time.

    -I'm all for spreading out the talent. Fact of the matter is the talented pass catchers we have can't maximize their skill sets unless Bradford can get them the ball.

    -You don't cut Long because he is a better player than Robinson or Mathews. You still draft Robinson or Mathews because they're versatile players and can fill in anywhere on he line except C. This knocks out several birds with one stone.

    -You say we need receivers high, I say we have not only starting calibre WR's, but depth at the position, as well. Snead says WR isn't viewed as a need and I totally agree. OL is a big need.

    - It's rare to find a guy like Greg Robinson. There's not many linemen his size that can play T. Therefore, he's nearly in a class of his own. He's so big that his balance gets away from him a bit and he grabs. All he needs to do is learn to stay low, slide, and punch with his long arms. He's not a finished product, but Mathews isn't a complete product, either. Mathews IS NOT a mauler.

    -Being we're talking about flaws. Evans lacks fluidity and quickness. Sherman would pone him as a rookie.

    -Watkins has average height and doesn't run crisp routes. I don't see you picking those guys apart.

    I'm going to be now. I didn't wanna leave you hanging around for me to come and correct you some more. ;)
     
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  5. iced Well-Known Member

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    It's still the difference of Talented vs Upside..

    Peyton Manning was seen as the most nfl ready coming out, while Ryan Leaf had the most upside..
    Eugene Monroe was more NFL Ready than Justin Smith...

    i'm sure there are more, and probably a few exceptions, but imo, the more Nfl ready seems to trump upside more often than not at the top of the draft

    That really wasn't meant for you as it was a broad statement ( i thought about clarifying, my mistake )

    Which he hasn't had an issue doing over the past 4 years. Them getting open and catching the ball has been completely different story, especially evidenced by the 7th ranking in drops and 12th in pressures over the past 3 years (not counting the mcdaniels season)

    Which you can get in the draft by actually drafting that position, and it allows you to spend that premium elsewhere. You help the team more this way.

    And I say it's not a coincidence that the last time we actually significantly invested in the position that we're finally seeing a result.

    Snead also said in response to a question about Jake Long's health and the draft "You don't draft because of injury." and that expect Long to be back week 1. "Espn Medical expert" even mentioned that the Rams expectation isn't unrealistic at all.

    Matthews isn't a mauler - but he's a tactician, and won't be getting beat as easily or consistently called for holding like Robinson would until he shores up his technique.

    Eh I don't know - I believe Alshon Jeffrey would give Sherman fits...it's the route runners that have given sherman fits, a'la roddy white. And I think if someone who can get physical back with sherman would make a difference, just like a fast/big playmaker like watkins would.

    Watkins has pretty good hands, attacks the ball, and runs decent routes. Height isn't going to be as much of a factor with him given his quickness and ability to separate. Holt/Bruce were about the same height and relied on their separation and hands.

    lol have a good night bro :cool:
     
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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
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  6. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Yea, this probably isn't the right argument to make. How have our recent guard picks worked out?

    The final sentence just isn't good logic. Prior to Brockers, how had our DT picks had worked out? This is a new regime.

    And no, it's not a bad investment.
     
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  7. iced Well-Known Member

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    Drafting for injury with a high pick because a young guy "may" get hurt isn't very sound logic.

    When was the last time we spent a 2nd round pick on a guard? outside of cognito, whom was a 3rd rounder, i can't think of any guard picks... i can think of plenty of free agent guard busts though
     
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  8. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    No, we don't. We assume it. Robinson hasn't played in the NFL yet. So we can't truly know for sure. We can guess. And hell, we can believe it...I know I have with some prospects. But it's never concrete.

    Matthew isn't a mauler? Matthews isn't as powerful as Robinson but I've seen him blow guys off the ball too. I guess it depends on how you define mauler. Matthews can certainly get movement in the run game and he's actually a very good run blocker. Very underrated. TAMU didn't get him as many opportunities to drive block as they should but he looked generally good when he did. Needs to improve his blocking in space and on the move more than his drive blocking. But a NFL OL Coach should have no issue working on that.

    Maybe? He's a rookie. But he has the size, strength, speed and physicality to match-up quite well with Sherman in the future. Regardless, I'd put Tavon against Sherman when we play Seattle. That's fighting fire with water.
     
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  9. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Except we're doing more than drafting for injury. Matthews/Robinson has a spot where he'd start.

    We have spent plenty of mid and late round picks on interior OLs over the last decade to no avail. Greco, Watkins, Setterstrom, Fry, Schuening, B. Jones(hasn't yet shown what he is or isn't), Palmer, Incognito, Terrell, Turner, Tercero, etc.
     
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  10. RamsOfCastamere Well-Known Member

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    What's the dropoff from Robinson/Matthews to a 2nd rd OG? I think drafting Watkins and a 2nd rd OG would benefit this offense more than drafting Robinson/Matthews.
     
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  11. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    It would be something like Watkins and G. Jackson/B. Thomas/A. Richardson which isn't a bad haul. But we could also come away with Matthews/Robinson and Jordan Matthews which also is a nice haul.
     
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  12. iced Well-Known Member

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    Right with different front offices and ownership..not to mention during an era of one the most dysfunctional front offices in history...

    But I've seen our current Front office drafting Wide Receivers - and so far, they leave a lot to be desired..

    they've shown a different penchant for the o-line though..Jake Long is first lineman free agent that we've paid and actually worked out in a long time..Saffold looks to be an all pro at Guard, Barksdale has already been playing a decently high level...The issue is left guard, and thats it.

    outside receiver still remains a question mark with stedman looking like a good possession receiver at worst
     
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  13. blackbart Well-Known Member

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    I fail to see how any of the people selected by other management teams has anything to do with who the Rams will select now.
     
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  14. iced Well-Known Member

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    its entirely possible Yanky or Brandon Thomas will be there.. maybe even Su'A'Filo
     
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  15. iced Well-Known Member

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    finally - something we agree on! :LOL::D:cool:
     
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  16. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    Ain't that the point? New regime. So saying you don't trust the Rams to draft an OL in round 1 seems like flawed logic to me.

    Our FO has drafted 4 WRs thus far. Of the four, Givens has, at minimum, lived up to expectations. Stedman and Tavon both flashed as rookies. Quick is the only one that hasn't thus far. And we can't completely write him off yet.

    Our FO has also drafted Watkins and Jones on the interior OL...and what have either of them shown thus far? So if you're taking that stance with WRs outside the first round, you have to take it with interior OLs too.

    Personally, I don't think Tavon should be playing the slot. I think Stedman is a better fit in the slot.
     
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  17. jrry32 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see Yankey being there. I had Thomas on my list. I don't see Su'a-Filo being there. I treated my WR pick with the same logic. Didn't add in Brandin Cooks or Odell Beckham Jr. because I think both are gone by that pick.
     
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  18. iced Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that I said this is flawed logic... and would sound quite hypocritical if you read me praising Matthews.. not sure how you got to that conclusion ^

    Sooo we can't write off a guy to produce that has no history of production but yet we can write off a guy's ability to be healthy next season, despite missing only one game last season? that sounds like flawed logic - especially since Fisher is easy on his vets and work load players..
     
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  19. iced Well-Known Member

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    and where do you have these guys going before 44?
     
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  20. Memphis Ram Well-Known Member

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    2014 draft is not just about the 2014 season.

    IMO, the drop off would be like falling off a cliff. Why? Because Robinson/Matthews wouldn't be limited to guard like most of the guys that would be available in round two. They are potential hard to find LTs (This season if needed or in the future). And this team has one that has suffered serious injuries for the past 3 seasons and isn't getting any younger. And they might not get another chance in the future to find a legit LT prospect if/when one is needed in the future. One could look no further than the Cardinals in our own division who had been looking to fill that spot for years.

    On the other hand, chances are pretty good that Watkins is not going to produce much better, if at all, than some of the other WRs that can be had in this deep draft class as he's not the rare physical freak matchup problem of most of the better WRs in the NFL today. The main problem is that many only know about the big name guys in the first round.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
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