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Merlin

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Wanted to open a little more discussion on a primary concern position group and what might be coming this offseason and beyond for the unit. Here's where we're at right now...

Format:
Position Name Year//CapHit//DeadCapHit

LT Whitworth 2018//$12.1M//$5.8M---2019//$12.4M//$1.6M---2020//UFA
LG Saffold 2018//$7.5M//$1M---2019//UFA
C Blythe 2018//$.6M//$0M---2019//$.7M//$0M---2020//UFA
RG Brown 2018//$1M//$.2M---2019//UFA
RT Havenstein 2018//$1.2M//$.3---2019//UFA

So for starters we can assume that LT is going to be flipped after 2019 best case. Worst case he starts to break down this season and they find themselves in the market and draft for LT after this season. IMO it is extremely unlikely LT is addressed this offseason and draft, because the Rams are better off than most teams there and do not have the draft capital nor the cap room to prioritize LT above other needs.

LG is going to be extremely costly after this season. I expect Roger to have another Pro Bowl season and probably gets the votes he deserves, and it will be his last contract in his prime so he's going to want to get paid. That is an option, but with decisions pending across the other positions I am not certain the Rams will elect to pay him. In fact my guess right now is they let him play out his contract season and then walk in FA because they need to build the line that will allow them to utilize this window of playoff opportunity.

C will be drafted this offseason. I am certain of that. Why? Because you can get them midrounds, the position requires an upgrade or at least depth behind Blythe, and lastly because Sully is old and has that injury history plus should be paid pretty well in this market and rightly so.

RG is the crux for the entire decision tree IMO. If they really like Brown and project him to have a strong season they will lock him up and maybe at a rate that is good for both sides. If not, then they might surprise everyone and pursue a top OG in FA. Why? Because they have to pay someone else besides Whit on this OL as a minimum to lessen the FA hits come 2019. Someone's gonna get paid.

RT is where I expect the Rams to lock up Havenstein. I think it gets done very quickly this offseason. Why? Because he's a solid RT who is serious about his craft and will improve as we go forward. He's also not playing his best ball yet and that's when it's a good time to lock guys up. I don't like to address tackles in FA personally, and don't like this FA class in terms of whether there are upgrades over Havenstein, so I don't expect any possible activity there.

So IMO here's our rough options...

Option 1
* Lock up Havenstein to a reasonable deal
* Draft a Center
Why it's option 1... Because tackles are harder to find and require higher draft capital than interior guys.

Option 2
* Lock up Brown to a reasonable deal
* Draft a Center
Why it's option 2... Because Havenstein might price himself out of the Rams plans.

Option 3
* Sign a top OG in FA
* Draft a Center
Why it's option 3... Because both those knuckleheads might price themselves out of the Rams plans.

Strangely of all the three possibilities above Option 3 is the most beneficial to next season. Why? Because it upgrades the Rams' OL for the 2018 season by replacing Brown, who was their weakest link. Under this option the Rams' center position would be the weakest, but if they hit on a Center in the draft they could field a ridiculous line for one season.

Bottom line IMO is the Rams must lock up one position. If they can get two locked up through club friendly deals so much the better but I am talking bare minimum here. In that case and using Option 1 as an example this is what we're looking at after the season...

LT Whitworth 2019//$12.4M//$1.6M---2020//UFA
LG ***NEED***
C <drafted in 2018 position solid at best>
RG ***NEED***
RT Havenstein <locked up in 2018 position good>

Replacing two positions is a tough order, but it is doable. At that point in time with Whit coming off the books after the 2019 season they can move up in the draft and get their LT, and with money only locked into RT for the future they can add a strong OG through FA and draft the other one or fill through depth.
 

Merlin

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One other thing here... Note that the above doesn't preclude them from adding more OL types mid to late in this draft (in fact I expect them to do just that). It's just not making the assumption that Les will strike gold there. Again, worst case scenario type deal.
 

Ram65

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My first thought is to redo Saffold now. He has a friendly cap number now. Give him a 3-4 year extension. Should cost less now. He gets security and Rams save a few $$$.

If not the redo both Hav and Brown now.

Don't like waiting till they are free agents.
 

Riverumbbq

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If the Rams are in a 'strike while the iron's hot' type of mood, I go with option 3 which is more in line with my last mock. What I mean by this is that the Rams are pursuing a Super Bowl run this year and are not going to let anything get in the way. Other options in my opinion are probably considered better for the long haul, especially relating to future CAP ramifications. I'm not quite as concerned as you about the Center position, ... Sullivan, Blythe & Eldrencamp can hopefully nail it down for at least a couple of years, so a free agent OG (Norwell) and a drafted OT/OG fits better for myself going forward. The draftee could learn under Whitworth and start at another OG position, or he may very well end up developing into our future LT or RT, ... wherever he goes, we'll have a need with Havenstein, Brown & Saffold entering free agency in 2018, and Whitworth following the 2019 season. As mentioned by me before, the one reason i'd sacrifice re-signing Watkins would be to sign Norwell. jmo.
 

Malibu

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I too have been pushing option 3 with Norwell as the lynchpin of this option. He will make the OL better on the right side which will help Goff and Gurley.
 

Merlin

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I too have been pushing option 3 with Norwell as the lynchpin of this option. He will make the OL better on the right side which will help Goff and Gurley.

That would make for a pretty sick OL in 2018, with Norwell playing RG this year and moving over to LG when Saff bails out. OR the opposite, where Roger is moved over for one season. Either way after the season here's what we'd have:

LT Whitworth 2019//$12.4M//$1.6M---2020//UFA
LG Norwell <locked up big money OG deal>
C 2018 Pick <locked up for 3 more years>
RG ***NEED***
RT Havenstein <will need to lock him up in FA>

So in that situation they would need to sign/pay Havenstein, because that draft will require a move up or use of round one pick for a LT. And they would need to find OG later on or hope one of the depth guys can move up.

I could have of course had another option that being they sign two now, but I think that is very unlikely given the amount of money that Demoff needs to distribute this offseason.
 

OldSchool

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All our problems are solved! We’ve resigned Michael Dunn! Dunn was on and off the practice squad this past season if I’m remembering correctly.
 

LACHAMP46

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I think Brown was better than Havenstein....only by the skin on his teeth....I'd look to upgrade the right side....one, find a OT that can start on the right side, but slide to the left side in 2019....two, draft a center that can start at RG....re-sign Sullivan.
 

Riverumbbq

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I could have of course had another option that being they sign two now, but I think that is very unlikely given the amount of money that Demoff needs to distribute this offseason.

Well, you could have had an option allowing for one free agent (Norwell) and one drafted OT/OG instead of the Center. Sullivan's salary for a two year contract shouldn't be a dealbreaker. jmo.
 

BonifayRam

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I do not like any of the options so I am not selecting any of those options.

First I see no reason to draft a center when you Kromer brought in 3 new Ram OC's in 2017 with Austin Blythe, Aaron Nearly & Jake Eldrenkamp all have the looks of OC prospects. The Colts Drafted Blythe even played well @ LG for Saffold. I see no reason not to sign John Sullivan back in here. I do place a higher priority on Havenstein & Saffold than Sullivan or Brown. If we utilize any draft selections on OL'er they best be OT's. It took us till the 3rd season to get a 2nd & 3rd round draft picks to play effectively in the OL

I would prefer to sign all of our Ram OL'ers. Over a Sammy or Trumaine. I place a very high priority on retaining our own OL'ers over many other positions. I would prefer Saffold over Norwell. I posted the below thoughts back on 2-4-18

I would suggest to forgo any thought of signing any other non Ram UFA OG's but look to secure our present 2018 UFA OL'ers & 2019 UFA OL'ers instead. UFA John Sullivan should be hired back for a 2 or 3 yr contract that would take him right into retirement age if his health holds up. QB/OC relationship is vital & it what we saw in 2017 was excellent.

I would also suggest an extension of veteran OLG {2019 UFA} Rodger Saffold. Rodger was our best interior OL'er in 2017. He had his best season as a starter since 2010. RS finally had a good surrounding cast working with him. RS will be 30 when the season begins & could have 4 or 5 good season left in him.

If either of the 2 Ram OL'ers above express desires to play elsewhere then move to talks with Ryan Jensen {26 yrs old} & Spencer Long {27 yrs old} instead. Both of these UFA OL'ers started @ OC but have started @ both OG posts too. Jensen would be my preference but Long played under McVay for several years & there is sure to be a connection. Both of these interior OL'ers are over 6-4 315/320 lbs!
 

Prime Time

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And to think we almost lost Saffold to the Raiders after he signed a 42 million dollar contract with them but they nixed his contract due to shoulder injury concerns. Now that he's playing the right position everything is falling in place for him and the Rams.
 

Rams43

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Well, I think our OL “solutions” are right under our noses.

I would extend Saffold right now if at all possible.

Extend Sully for 2 years and try to draft his eventual replacement this or next year.

I like both Brown and Hav. I think that they’re both keepers for the next 10 years if they remain healthy.

An eventual replacement for Whit must come either this or next year. Hopefully, Kromer has a midrounder in mind.

In short, this is a helluva OL as is. We have far bigger problems short term than this existing OL. In fact, I think it’s fair to say that Kromer has turned this OL into a team strength. Something that could not be said about our OL’s going back for years and years.
 

nighttrain

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Well, I think our OL “solutions” are right under our noses.

I would extend Saffold right now if at all possible.

Extend Sully for 2 years and try to draft his eventual replacement this or next year.

I like both Brown and Hav. I think that they’re both keepers for the next 10 years if they remain healthy.

An eventual replacement for Whit must come either this or next year. Hopefully, Kromer has a midrounder in mind.

In short, this is a helluva OL as is. We have far bigger problems short term than this existing OL. In fact, I think it’s fair to say that Kromer has turned this OL into a team strength. Something that could not be said about our OL’s going back for years and years.
finally, after the season we just had, keep this group together and see if upgrades to the replacement cadre can be found, should not break the bank
train
 

Riverumbbq

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Well, I think our OL “solutions” are right under our noses.

I would extend Saffold right now if at all possible.

Extend Sully for 2 years and try to draft his eventual replacement this or next year.

I like both Brown and Hav. I think that they’re both keepers for the next 10 years if they remain healthy.

An eventual replacement for Whit must come either this or next year. Hopefully, Kromer has a midrounder in mind.

In short, this is a helluva OL as is. We have far bigger problems short term than this existing OL. In fact, I think it’s fair to say that Kromer has turned this OL into a team strength. Something that could not be said about our OL’s going back for years and years.

I appreciate what you are trying to say here, but with Saffold, Havenstein & Brown all entering free agency next year, they are going to want to be paid like the starters they are. Whitworth is likely retiring after 2019, and that's only if he stays healthy between now and then. This year we have Donald to worry about, in the next two it will be Gurley and Goff, so I have to wonder where all this money is coming from if we aren't developing the talent thru the draft ?
 
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Merlin

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Well, you could have had an option allowing for one free agent (Norwell) and one drafted OT/OG instead of the Center. Sullivan's salary for a two year contract shouldn't be a dealbreaker. jmo.

First I see no reason to draft a center when you Kromer brought in 3 new Ram OC's in 2017 with Austin Blythe, Aaron Nearly & Jake Eldrenkamp all have the looks of OC prospects. The Colts Drafted Blythe even played well @ LG for Saffold. I see no reason not to sign John Sullivan back in here. I do place a higher priority on Havenstein & Saffold than Sullivan or Brown. If we utilize any draft selections on OL'er they best be OT's. It took us till the 3rd season to get a 2nd & 3rd round draft picks to play effectively in the OL

Just openin discourse on this dudes. Think it's a topic that warrants it.

I am not nearly as as high on the centers as most here, in fact while I think Blythe might be able to hold things down he will be a minor downgrade from Sully. But the point is that they need to make moves that solidify the line over the next few years, which is why I don't think Sully fits this offseason.

The key is looking at this thing over time, and seeing how they have two offseasons to fill effectively 4 OL spots (3 FA and one LT).

Also wrt turnaround time taken on the previously drafted OL, we didn't have the current OL coach who has put on a damn clinic thus far. There has been a lot of discussion on the actual coaching of fundamentals that was needed during Coach Boudreau's tenure, and even some former Rams greats chirped about that, well one for sure did.

Taking a Center midrounds doesn't preclude an OT project type.
 

Merlin

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I appreciate what you are trying to say here, but with Saffold, Havenstein & Brown all entering free agency next year, they are going to want to be paid like the starters they are. Whitworth is likely retiring after 2019, and that's only if he stays healthy between now and then. This year we have Donald to worry about, in the next two it will be Gurley and Goff, so I have to wonder where all this money is coming from if we aren't developing it thru the draft ?

In general it's fine and healthy to have a couple OL being paid. I don't think that would be a problem, comes down to how they time it to ensure they're not paying 3+ guys in that unit. I mean paying 3 for one year with Whit comin off the books the next year, ok, but yeah they're going to have to be surgical and hit on a couple draft picks at the least.
 

Merlin

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Well, I think our OL “solutions” are right under our noses.

I would extend Saffold right now if at all possible.

Extend Sully for 2 years and try to draft his eventual replacement this or next year.

I like both Brown and Hav. I think that they’re both keepers for the next 10 years if they remain healthy.

This is a common theme I read 43, but think about it...

Pay Sully.

Pay Saffold.

Pay Brown and Havenstein too?

C'mon man. You're smarter than that. Rams need to make some tough decisions. They cannot afford to PAY all their OL.
 

Rams43

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This is a common theme I read 43, but think about it...

Pay Sully.

Pay Saffold.

Pay Brown and Havenstein too?

C'mon man. You're smarter than that. Rams need to make some tough decisions. They cannot afford to PAY all their OL.

Well, it’s not all that daunting a task, Merlin.

Sully won’t cost all that much. What, $4-5 million for 2 years?

Saffold is already at $7.5 million. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/rodger-saffold-6542/ Shouldn’t cost all that much more if they extend him. He’s playing at a Pro Bowl level, still young, stayed healthy, and great in locker room.

Brown and Hav should be affordable. Neither is gonna demand elite type money, merely average starting salaries for a RG and a RT. Hell, either should be a bargain compared to FA demands down the road.

Whit has been discussed. I’m guessing that we may have to have his replacement no later than opening day of the ‘19 season. Probably an inexpensive draft pick, even if he’s a 1st rounder. Certainly compared to Whit’s current salary.

I think this FO has planned this out nicely and is all over the situation.

The upcoming AD, Gurley, and Goff contracts are gonna be the backbreakers. This current OL is chump change contract wise by comparison. IMO, of course.
 

Merlin

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Well, it’s not all that daunting a task, Merlin.

I think it is 43. It is when you're talking about paying everyone. They can't. And it's easy to say both Brown and Havenstein will be affordable, but I doubt that until I see it. Both those guys would be paid pretty damn well if they were hitting the FA period this year, and they have agents that know that and don't think both aren't lookin forward to that payday.

That money is going to go fast. The Rams have to make moves this year that solve futures concerns. To say "we can pay everyone and the Rams know what they're doing I trust them" is an oversimplification.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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This is a common theme I read 43, but think about it...

Pay Sully.

Pay Saffold.

Pay Brown and Havenstein too?

C'mon man. You're smarter than that. Rams need to make some tough decisions. They cannot afford to PAY all their OL.

How do you know? Saffold is not young, Brown and Havenstein are both good but not great. What makes you think they will all command top dollar? I wouldn't mind if Brown moved on. Tackles are hard to find though. How many years did the Rams need a right tackle before Havenstein? He is the best they have had since GSOT days, and he isn't great compared to the rest of the league. Right now they have what they need. So free agency is not a likely way to add anyone. They may want to resign Sullivan. If he gets too much then let Blythe start. Sullivan was a second wave free agent last year. Why is he suddenly worth an unaffordable multi year contract? He is the same guy he was with Washington. So he signs another affordable deal with the Rams.