Oh here we go!

[Ramhusker]

https://screen.yahoo.com/michael-sam-39-m-not-141902206.html?soc_src=unv-sh&soc_trk=ma

 

[RamFan503]

Excuses are like assholes Michael.

 

[RhodyRams]

Surprised it has taken this long.

31/32 coaches didn't think he would make an NFL roster.

 

[Memento]

Surprised that it hasn't been brought up sooner...because it's absolutely true.

You can't tell me that douchebags like Rice, Hardy, McDonald, and Peterson can still find jobs in the NFL, while a guy who could easily fit as a rotational defensive end in a 4-3 scheme, has zero character issues, and won the SEC Defensive Player of the Year can't find a job anywhere.

Let's not kid ourselves: it's because he's gay, and because there are a lot of Americans who still live in the Stone Age.

 

[Boffo97]

Well, all that "Thank you for the chance" talk when he got cut here was just garbage, wasn't it?

Michael, you were cut because you don't have the size to succeed at this level. The only way your orientation came into it was its propensity for creating distractions, such as the OWN debacle.

 

[Boffo97]

Surprised that it hasn't been brought up sooner...because it's absolutely true.

You can't tell me that douchebags like Rice, Hardy, McDonald, and Peterson can still find jobs in the NFL, while a guy who could easily fit as a rotational defensive end in a 4-3 scheme, has zero character issues, and won the SEC Defensive Player of the Year can't find a job anywhere.

Let's not kid ourselves: it's because he's gay, and because there are a lot of Americans who still live in the Stone Age.

The SEC Defensive Player of the year thing is a huge red herring. There are tons of kids who won the Heisman then never amounted to anything in the NFL.

 

[Memento]

The SEC Defensive Player of the year thing is a huge red herring. There are tons of kids who won the Heisman then never amounted to anything in the NFL.

That's entirely different. Look at all of the DPotYs in the SEC.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/sec-dpoy.html

Other than Chad Lavalais, that's a pretty good list. David Pollack was amazing before he sustained a career ending neck injury, DeMeco Ryans has been in the league for almost ten years, and everyone else was a first round draft pick.

You can't tell me that Sam can't be a decent rotational player, especially with all of the crap that other teams have (such as the Jaguars, Raiders, Giants, etc.) This was all about his orientation. I really don't blame him for speaking out.

 

[RamFan503]

The SEC Defensive Player of the year thing is a huge red herring. There are tons of kids who won the Heisman then never amounted to anything in the NFL.

Stole my example. It's almost a curse. We were joking the other day that as Ducks fans, we hope Mariota doesn't win it.

And it was SEC Co-Defensive Payer of the Year. That was potentially the only reason he got a look as it was. His skill set worked in college. It just wasn't a fit in the NFL. We see it all the time. And though his coming out MAY have been enough to keep him from taking a spot on a practice squad, if he was good enough to dress on Sundays, he most certainly would have stuck to someone's 53. Simple fact is that he wasn't good enough to be part of a regular rotation and didn't excel at Teams. Where then does he fit? You don't keep a guy on your 53 that you know will never dress on Sundays. And a practice squad guy still needs to have a purpose.

 

[Memento]

Stole my example. It's almost a curse. We were joking the other day that as Ducks fans, we hope Mariota doesn't win it.

And it was SEC Co-Defensive Payer of the Year. That was potentially the only reason he got a look as it was. His skill set worked in college. It just wasn't a fit in the NFL. We see it all the time. And though his coming out MAY have been enough to keep him from taking a spot on a practice squad, if he was good enough to dress on Sundays, he most certainly would have stuck to someone's 53. Simple fact is that he wasn't good enough to be part of a regular rotation and didn't excel at Teams. Where then does he fit? You don't keep a guy on your 53 that you know will never dress on Sundays. And a practice squad guy still needs to have a purpose.

How was it not a fit in the NFL? Elvis Dumervil has that same short stocky frame, and he's arguably one of the most dangerous pass-rushers out there. Tamba Hali isn't huge, and he's still a dangerous pass-rusher. And yeah, we do see it all the time. The only difference is that those guys - even if they don't have the measurables - still get a shot. They still find space as rotational pass-rushers.

If not for a fucking whim, Sam wouldn't have even been drafted, for fate's sake. Also, Dallas had every reason to call him up, and they didn't. They cut him from the practice squad, and nobody's called since.

 

[Boffo97]

That's entirely different. Look at all of the DPotYs in the SEC.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/sec-dpoy.html

Other than Chad Lavalais, that's a pretty good list. David Pollack was amazing before he sustained a career ending neck injury, DeMeco Ryans has been in the league for almost ten years, and everyone else was a first round draft pick.

You can't tell me that Sam can't be a decent rotational player, especially with all of the crap that other teams have (such as the Jaguars, Raiders, Giants, etc.) This was all about his orientation. I really don't blame him for speaking out.

Who the other SEC DPOYs are is pretty much completely irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not Sam had the size to succeed at the NFL level. He didn't, and now this is sour grapes.

And yes, no matter what his orientation, I don't think he'd even make a good rotational player due to his size. I think the Rams gave him every chance to succeed (why else spend a draft pick on him?) and he got outplayed by who was here and Westbrooks. Then seeing that, other NFL teams weren't interested. There were better players to be had.

 

[Ramhusker]

When's the lawsuit?

 

[Boffo97]

When's the lawsuit?

I'm sure it's coming. Been sure it was coming since we picked him.

 

[Memento]

Who the other SEC DPOYs are is pretty much completely irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not Sam had the size to succeed at the NFL level. He didn't, and now this is sour grapes.

And yes, no matter what his orientation, I don't think he'd even make a good rotational player due to his size. I think the Rams gave him every chance to succeed (why else spend a draft pick on him?) and he got outplayed by who was here and Westbrooks. Then seeing that, other NFL teams weren't interested. There were better players to be had.

You're the one who said that the SEC DPOYs are like the Heisman. I gave proof that showed otherwise. And I've given examples of players with his size that have succeeded. Like I said, you can't possibly tell me that not a single 4-3 team or hybrid front had no need for him. Pass-rushers are at a premium, and Sam proved in the preseason that he was good enough to play in the NFL.

It was all about his orientation.

 

[Boffo97]

You're the one who said that the SEC DPOYs are like the Heisman. I gave proof that showed otherwise. And I've given examples of players with his size that have succeeded. Like I said, you can't possibly tell me that not a single 4-3 team or hybrid front had no need for him. Pass-rushers are at a premium, and Sam proved in the preseason that he was good enough to play in the NFL.

It was all about his orientation.

No, you really didn't give any proof because you're missing the point. There have been tons of kids who succeeded at the college level who don't succeed at the pros.

But if you're bound and determined that it must have been about his orientation, there's nothing I can say that can convince you otherwise. I'll just bow out by saying I hope you're not lumping fellow forum posters who disagree with you into your "cavemen" remark above.

 

[jrry32]

You're the one who said that the SEC DPOYs are like the Heisman. I gave proof that showed otherwise. And I've given examples of players with his size that have succeeded. Like I said, you can't possibly tell me that not a single 4-3 team or hybrid front had no need for him. Pass-rushers are at a premium, and Sam proved in the preseason that he was good enough to play in the NFL.

It was all about his orientation.

It's not all about his orientation. Do you think Adrian Peterson would be unable to find a roster spot if he were openly gay? No.

Much of it is his talent level. But his orientation does come into play in that the teams that might be interested in him as a PS player or as a fringe roster player(rotational DE) might shy away due to the distraction he could be. It's like Tim Tebow. He's better than some of the backup QBs in this league but he's a distraction.

Could Sam be on a roster right now? Yes. Is he not solely because of his sexual orientation? No. But it plays a role in it.

 

[Memento]

No, you really didn't give any proof because you're missing the point. There have been tons of kids who succeeded at the college level who don't succeed at the pros.

But if you're bound and determined that it must have been about his orientation, there's nothing I can say that can convince you otherwise. I'll just bow out by saying I hope you're not lumping fellow forum posters who disagree with you into your "cavemen" remark above.

When did I ever lump other forum members into that remark? Was I talking about any of you specifically? NO! I respect you guys and this forum too much to do that. But yes, there are quite a few people - not people on this forum, but others - who still think that being gay is a "disease" that can be "cured".

And yes, I did give you proof. Even the kids who win the Heisman or whatever award there is still get chances that Sam never got. The DPOYs in the SEC were all first rounders except for Ryans and Lavalais. How do you explain the Cowboys never putting him on the 53 man roster when they had injuries and overall ineffectiveness on their D-line?

 

[Memento]

It's not all about his orientation. Do you think Adrian Peterson would be unable to find a roster spot if he were openly gay? No.

Much of it is his talent level. But his orientation does come into play in that the teams that might be interested in him as a PS player or as a fringe roster player(rotational DE) might shy away due to the distraction he could be. It's like Tim Tebow. He's better than some of the backup QBs in this league but he's a distraction.

Could Sam be on a roster right now? Yes. Is he not solely because of his sexual orientation? No. But it plays a role in it.

That's all I'm saying. Michael Sam and Tim Tebow should be in the NFL right now. They deserve it over a lot of other players, but because they bring so-called controversy that they didn't ask for, they don't have jobs. Which is really a damned shame.

 

[RamFan503]

Much of it is his talent level. But his orientation does come into play in that the teams that might be interested in him as a PS player or as a fringe roster player(rotational DE) might shy away due to the distraction he could be. It's like Tim Tebow. He's better than some of the backup QBs in this league but he's a distraction.

Very well put and a good example.

With that, I'll bow out of this conversation as I see it going no where even remotely positive.

 

[bluecoconuts]

That's all I'm saying. Michael Sam and Tim Tebow should be in the NFL right now. They deserve it over a lot of other players, but because they bring so-called controversy that they didn't ask for, they don't have jobs. Which is really a damned shame.

Sam? Yeah I think he does have the ability to play. Tebow? Nah.


I did think its was bullshit when Dungy was saying he would give Ray Rice another chance. Total crock of shit, talking distractions, then saying Rice and Vick should play. If Sam never came out, I think he's on a roster though.

 

[Boffo97]

When did I ever lump other forum members into that remark? Was I talking about any of you specifically? NO! I respect you guys and this forum too much to do that. But yes, there are quite a few people - not people on this forum, but others - who still think that being gay is a "disease" that can be "cured".

And yes, I did give you proof. Even the kids who win the Heisman or whatever award there is still get chances that Sam never got. The DPOYs in the SEC were all first rounders except for Ryans and Lavalais. How do you explain the Cowboys never putting him on the 53 man roster when they had injuries and overall ineffectiveness on their D-line?

Let me make one more response before bowing out.

I am glad you acknowledge that one can believe Sam just didn't have the talent/size/speed for pro football and not just oppose him because of hating gay people. I would ask you to take the logic one step further and acknowledge that NFL professionals could believe that as well. And that they quite possibly gave Sam the same chance everyone else gets and he just didn't measure up.

If his orientation comes into it at all, it's through his having a higher probability than normal of causing a distraction for his team. But if he had the talent, even that could be overcome. How do I explain the Cowboys never putting him on their main roster? Because he wasn't that good at the pro level. He got outplayed here by Westbrooks (a UDFA), and he lacks versatility to play at DT or on Special Teams. If they were willing to sign the guy to their practice squad, clearly they were willing to use him if he was good. And if he was good, it would have shown up in practice. Obviously it didn't.

I do acknowledge that there are some people out there who do dislike him because of his orientation. At the same time, there are those out there as well who want him to succeed BECAUSE of his orientation, even if he doesn't have the football talent to do it.

The other DPOYs in the SEC have absolutely no bearing on Sam's ability to play pro football. That's as irrational as the argument that went around Rams fandom at one point that we shouldn't draft DT's high anymore because the ones we did draft didn't work out. The point remains that Sam is far from the first and will be far from the last kid to succeed at college and not succeed at the pros. It happens. And once you allow for the possibility that it's not just homophobia at work, the argument that it is just falls apart.

Now with that, I'm out. As said, this thread really isn't going anywhere good. And I think we're both pretty set in our opinions on this.