O-line Woes falls on Fisher's Shoulders

[LACHAMP46]

What? You're comment makes no sense. And also, in your first comment you said "what is Robinson supposed to do?" Umm, how about block somebody?! That's his job! And while he's at it he should stop grabbing every jersey he sees. Let's remember we aren't talking about some 3rd round rookie here. We are talking about the 2nd pick in the entire 2014 Draft who should've been vastly improved this year.

okay, I was trying to lighten the mood....We had multiple lines in the last 2 weeks. Greg Robinson plays the toughest position on the line. It typically takes linemen 3 years to become acclimated and maybe dominate at their position. Many hall of famers have said the same thing. Greg was also unusually raw...I'd guess Havenstein has 20 additional reps at OT counting college. It's gonna take time...It's not like EVERY play the Rams QB has pressure from Greg's man/side.. That's simply not true... The ONE sack he allowed that I saw (it could be more) he was attempting to push the DE past the pocket, and Keenum didn't step up once on this play. He literally backed up to his spot and got hit...this was the play when he was knocked out, or dazed. In fact, if I had to say a linemen was being overwhelmed today, it would be Barnes & Rhaney...I thought the original line started out well, all things considered..all new rookie line...

We clearly have QB issues...as Rams fans it would appear we should know this...How many wobbly balls do you have to see to know, the ones you DON'T see probably happen a bunch too...There is a reason Keenum was worth a 7th rounder...basically nothing....The real concern, why did Fisher want him? Why did he look BETTER than Foles?

Once you're in the pros, the round you're drafted has no baring, what so ever, on how you play.....Kurt Warner taught us that...It takes time, as long as G-Rob continues to work he'll be fine. I'm more worried about Barnes...He's been here forever...and has obvious power limitations.

Those 2 fumbles help contribute to this loss....from 2 of our best players...probably need to spread it around a bit more.

 

[Fatbot]

Why would you pay a third round developmental player thirty million dollars? Read my whole post.

I don't think the money is as important as the third round picks don't have the 5th year team option so that would be 3 years of development invested for one year of production.

 

[Merlin]

Fisher had been blasted for not getting guys in here that can be developed. He finally does that and now we expect those same guys to be instant starters when NONE of them were meant to ready THIS YEAR.

Well to be fair Fish was quoted in saying they'd be fine on the OL on more than one occasion, meaning he expected two of them to be instant starters based on two positions they had to fill along with center as a third via internal promotion.

Yes the injuries suck and have been a recurring issue for this regime. But they're a part of the game, this regime is in season 4, and after several seasons of being able to blame the OL injuries for their poor play you start to run into diminishing returns.

I imagine Coach Fisher's end of season outbrief with Kroenke is going to sound disturbingly familiar to previous seasons and that is a very bad thing. "Well our QB play isn't up to snuff, and our OL was injured, and well the receivers are coming along a little bit but they're not there yet, and yes I do still think Britt and Cook are viable players, but I think you need to put your trust in us for this draft to be able to find a franchise QB, two receivers who can run a route and catch the ball, a replacement DE for Long who will be a cap casualty, another LT so we can move GRob to OG, and oh by the way I have a great plan to finally bring a good OC in here, blah, blah, blah, blah."

If I was the owner it would be a very, very hard sell to convince me Fish is the guy for the future. Maybe impossible for that matter. You need to have offense to win in this league.

 

[blue4]

If I was the owner it would be a very, very hard sell to convince me Fish is the guy for the future.

That depends entirely on what the owner's first priority is.

 

[Rainram]

I actually posted this is in the Keenum thread, but since we have an OLine specific thread going now....

I'm thinking we might want to ease Gurley up some. We ain't going anywhere as it is, I don't want him getting killed and rolled up on in the middle of these lines, which they love running him into lately with no room whatsoever. Give Mason and Benny more carries...when Gurley gets the ball, get him outside or in space more. We're already getting QBs killed...I will be downright livid if something happens to our best offensive player.

 

[Mackeyser]

+10000

Save Gurley. I want him to have a spectacular rookie season, but I surely don't want him to suffer a late season injury.

 

[FrankenRam]

Fisher likes drafting high upside athletes. They knew what Robinson was when they drafted him. They made that decision. That didn't make Robinson any less of a project.

And what I'm saying, since I have to explain it to you again, is that I am glad the Rams finally spent draft capital on young talent on the OL (Robinson, Havenstein, Brown, etc.) because they have neglected to do that and all of these broken down journeymen put us in the crappy situation we are in. It was necessary. And it might just end up being something that helps us significantly in the future as these guys develop. It was making a move for the good of the franchise in the future rather than simply looking at the present. It was a necessary evil.

And yes, I'm okay with years of development. Which is why I gave Jeff Fisher four years to get the job done.

Keep fishing for contradictions...one day, you just might find one.

Three years to go a long way towards living up to the #2 overall pick is perfectly reasonable. But 3 yrs to develop into an adequate player is not. By the mid-point of the 2nd year, such a pick should be a solid contributor. At this point GR isn't even an adequate contributor. He totally whiffs on way too many blocks and is leading all NFL OL in holding penalties this year.

Evaluate his play right now with the hypothetical idea that he had been a 4th Rd pick rather than the 2nd overall, and tell me you'd still be defending him with the 'project' rationale. To my eye, both Brown & Havenstein were playing better than GR prior to injury, and definitely showing WAY more progress at their position.

While I'm certainly not totally giving up on GR, the reality is that, at this time, he's far closer to joining Jason Smith on the B train than he is in joining Orlando Pace on the HoF candidate train.

Keep fishing for justifications.....one day, you just might find one.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Fisher injured Saffold, Brown, Williams, Havenstein, and now Donnell?

There isn't a team in the entire league that can adequately replace 5 players in season. And the only reason this team even had a fighting chance is because they kept about 11 guys. Most teams keep about 9.

Especially, not without strong play at QB and the rest of the offense well versed in the offense and on the same page.

 

[ChrisW]

Can someone tell me how Wichmann looked at RG before the Donnal injury? Trying to look ahead to next week for when Hav will be back.

 

[LACHAMP46]

@ChrisW
Okay.....not bad, not great....No big holes...but overall, okay, first start....Case had to scramble a few times....it was tough...Donnal went down pretty early.....

Evaluate his play right now with the hypothetical idea that he had been a 4th Rd pick rather than the 2nd overall, and tell me you'd still be defending him with the 'project' rationale. To my eye, both Brown & Havenstein were playing better than GR prior to injury, and definitely showing WAY more progress at their position.

You show me ONE LT in the NFL that doesn't struggle....He's a grabber, but by no means is this guy some terrible player...Was this expected, maybe by the coaches but not the fans...
Brown was playing about the same as G-Rob....he did appear to be playing better in preseason. RG he seemed about the same...both made mistakes....Havenstein was getting better in my eyes....My thoughts are, he PLAYED RT at Wisconsin, great coaching there, then he starts at RT here...that's 5 years....
Lastly, I think, not sure, but I think physical fitness has a lot to do with injuries....that's all I'll say on that....We need players that can stay healthy....continuity is what can make a line great/good...we don't have healthy bodies, AGAIN....All of these linemen are about the same, more or less...G-Rob's at one end of the spectrum, and a guy like Barnes on the other....If given time to play together, I'd guess any could become a great unit.
I'm more interested in the teams that can build good lines quickly...How does NE do it? How did Dallas do it? It seems they have powerful lines, and use pretty young/inexperienced players...Patriots just plug anyone in...and they do well....
to me it breaks down to:
QB's make lines good. Great QB's, RB's & WR's make them great....

 

[Pancake]

So I guess some of you guys are ok with the 7 year plan. Arguing that the Young guys on the OL need time to develop makes sense but adding them to the team going into the 4th year? Come on. The best case scenario then is 6 or 7 years for fisher to build a winner. Who gets that kind of time in the modern pro sports world?

And the argument that he tried to fix the OL by adding veterans that just didn't work out is like saying a baseball player who keeps striking out should keep getting another chance just because he took swings. At some point excuses need to stop and results have to matter.

 

[ChrisW]

@ChrisW
Okay.....not bad, not great....No big holes...but overall, okay, first start....Case had to scramble a few times....it was tough...Donnal went down pretty early.....

Thanks, Champ.

 

[LesBaker]

So I guess some of you guys are ok with the 7 year plan. Arguing that the Young guys on the OL need time to develop makes sense but adding them to the team going into the 4th year? Come on. The best case scenario then is 6 or 7 years for fisher to build a winner. Who gets that kind of time in the modern pro sports world?

And the argument that he tried to fix the OL by adding veterans that just didn't work out is like saying a baseball player who keeps striking out should keep getting another chance just because he took swings. At some point excuses need to stop and results have to matter.

Hey 'cake always good to see you.

So I don't know if you recall a poster named waterfield. He posts on the Herd a lot and posted on the Huddle once in awhile.

He said it would take 5-7 years to totally fix the Rams.

He might be right!

 

[Pancake]

Hey 'cake always good to see you.

So I don't know if you recall a poster named waterfield. He posts on the Herd a lot and posted on the Huddle once in awhile.

He said it would take 5-7 years to totally fix the Rams.

He might be right!

Morning Les.

Waterfield, yes great poster and he might have been dead on with his estimate for a total fix.

 

[fearsomefour]

Give it a rest on Robinson. The guy was a project. People were calling Chris Long a bust too back in the day. Give the guy his three years. And give Brown and Havenstein some time to develop.

But in the mean time, we do need to go out and get help. Get some depth in FA, replace Saffold with a healthy guy, and I wouldn't complain if we replaced Barnes with a better player or a draft pick. Barnes is very under-powered.

I agree.
I prefer Robinson at G, but, he has improved generally at T. Revisionist history is that Orlando Pace was all world from day 1 and that is not the case.

 

[OldSchool]

I agree.
I prefer Robinson at G, but, he has improved generally at T. Revisionist history is that Orlando Pace was all world from day 1 and that is not the case.

Exactly right with this. Also Pace was allowed to play tackle and learn the tackle position from day one and with only one scheme.

 

[Pancake]

I agree.
I prefer Robinson at G, but, he has improved generally at T. Revisionist history is that Orlando Pace was all world from day 1 and that is not the case.

Pace might not have been all world on day one but he was on his way. By 98 his second year he was a probowler. By year 3 he was anchoring the greatest O of all time.

 

[lordbannon]

Put yourself in Robinson's shoes. You're raw and still learning pass protection. You line up against the opponent's best. You hold, you get called for holding. You make clean blocks, you get called for holding. You try to get off quickly against a speed rusher, you get called for a false start (I saw both the Bears and Ravens have their right sides get off before the ball multiple times without calls). Seems that anything you do is a penalty. That's how you end up with a Left Tackle standing there after the snap and not blocking anything while the DE strip sacks the QB.

 

[CoachO]

Pace might not have been all world on day one but he was on his way. By 98 his second year he was a probowler. By year 3 he was anchoring the greatest O of all time.

And how much further along was he in his development coming out of Ohio state? All these comparisons are pointless.

Robinson has his issues. But if this unit was allowed to remain intact with the same five guys playing each and every week none of this would matter.

But that's not the case. So every struggle is magnified. People like to isolate on individuals rather than focus on the cohesion that is needed for this unit to be productive. More than any other unit in the field, it's all about the sum of the parts not which player isn't good enough.

Lately people are blasting away at Robinson. Or Barnes in pointing out their struggles. But they fail to take into account that it might be the guy next to them who missed his assignment and caused the issue in the first place.

 

[NateDawg122]

Fisher injured Saffold, Brown, Williams, Havenstein, and now Donnell?

There isn't a team in the entire league that can adequately replace 5 players in season. And the only reason this team even had a fighting chance is because they kept about 11 guys. Most teams keep about 9.

Especially, not without strong play at QB and the rest of the offense well versed in the offense and on the same page.

You act like the offensive line was a powerhouse before all the injuries. It was a POS with everyone healthy. Now it's just nonexistent.