No more incompletes for Bradford

[Thordaddy]

Just for fun, here's an interesting stat.

Aaron Rodgers has been sacked a total of 139 times over the past 4 years. Bradford has been sacked 120 times over that same time period.

Which is a raw number and COULD be used to make a point that Rogers was under more pressure and did better,UNTIL you take the fact that Bradford played six fewer games and the sacks per game for each of them is within like .05 so if the point is Rogers is being harassed like a mofo ,so is Sam and in arguably Rogers veteran recs. have bailed him out more so yes our young guys need to step up and help the man.

 

[Sum1]

The only thing I need to see is if he can stay healthy.

Aside from that, this TEAM needs to have a winning record, not just the QB.

 

[Da-Rock]

Not trying to "call anyone out" here but I just don't understand this position. I mean, what's not to like about the guy? You've already described a less than ideal environment since his arrival. Do you care to explain?

Sure....I thought about adding why I am not on the Bradford Train, but thought it was a long enough post. Its not a train of thought grounded in logic or facts either. I realize its something that I see and maybe not by others. I try to stay on an even path when I talk about it, so here goes:

I do not see the, "It" factor in Sam. I do not see the level of passion for the game or the teammates in his body language, words and eyes etc. His actions on the field show physical and mental talent in the, "Above Average" range for a QB, but...............not the emotional talent I desire in an elite QB.

My definition of the, "IT" factor = a player who wins games despite his own physical limitations, the limitations of his team and the ability of the opponent. I hate using this as an example because many will misunderstand what parts I am looking at, but Tim Tebow had no business winning that many games with Denver.............yet he did. Bret Favre pulled off some crazy wins and most of the time he gave the ball away as much as he scored....(thats the way it looked, not sure what the actual stats show).

Bradford's passion may be an incredible raging Furnace inside, but if his body language doesn't present it his teammates don't benefit from it.

 

[F. Mulder]

Look, I'm a HUGE Bradford fan but I agree with what Max posted in the OP and feel the same way maybe in different definitions or descriptions.

This needs to be Bradford's year. If the OC sucks, if he gets hurt by any type of injury for an extended period of time, if his WRs suck, if his OL sucks, if the schedule is brutal, etc etc etc. You are entering into the 5th year as the #1 overall draft pick. Most rational people are aware what a shitty situation he was brought into. Most rational people realize what a devoid of talent the Rams overall, and particularly the Offense had to work with. Most rational people saw haw Spags/Schurmur tried to insulate him early on by having him throw the ball under 3 seconds no matter what and how that is a debilitating development tool for a true NFL QB.

However......you are in the third year of the Fisher regime. You know the OC and what he likes and you have input into game planning and scheming and adjustments. The offense has effectively been given to you. You have a young group of inconsistent but talented WRs/TEs. You have the cornerstones have having an above average OL. You have 4 years of NFL experience. And you have a D that SHOULD keep games close almost always.

For me it is up to Bradford to put the Offense on his back and truly make that unit (if not the entire team) his. For me he needs to teach, motivate, trust, and demand production and awareness from the young WR group since they are vital to his success. Whether fair or not he needs to stay healthy. He needs to elevate those around him. He needs to be at worst a game manager and at best a top-10 type QB. He needs to do a lot of that in a brutal division. I know some of those situations can be unfair or variables can sabotage them (no pun intended) but if we end up another season with Sam being a middle of the road QB and the team having a middle of the road record then everyone needs to take a step back and see if this is where we are heading. If have news for some of you, IF Bradford is extended and the Rams commit to him long-term than it won't be for free. He will be one of the highest paid QBs in the league and expectations should match salary. In addition. Fisher is hitching his and his staffs reputations and jobs on him. IF he is back he needs to be someone that Fisher himself truly believes has IT and can be a difference maker. If not, I'd rather struggle with a youngster making stupid mistakes and making less money but who has big time potential, or a game manager who can hand the ball off 30 times a game and complete 3rd down a 4 plays and that's it.

I really believe in the guy but he can really really frustrate me. I know many of you disagree and I get that but for me this is make or break.

 

[ED_29]

What happens if the two do not necessarily go hand in hand this year? Lets say Bradford plays lights out and puts up ridiculous numbers and the team still doesnt win. What then?

Then obviously the issue isn't Bradford... he did his part

We can evaluate SB outside of other variables

 

[duckhunter]

We had a good conversation of the 'it' factor a while back. Of course, I don't remember what was said. Not a damn thing. Pitiful. I'm gonna break my rules to grade systems and give myself an F.

 

[ED_29]

Look, I'm a HUGE Bradford fan but I agree with what Max posted in the OP and feel the same way maybe in different definitions or descriptions.

This needs to be Bradford's year. If the OC sucks, if he gets hurt by any type of injury for an extended period of time, if his WRs suck, if his OL sucks, if the schedule is brutal, etc etc etc. You are entering into the 5th year as the #1 overall draft pick. Most rational people are aware what a crappy situation he was brought into. Most rational people realize what a devoid of talent the Rams overall, and particularly the Offense had to work with. Most rational people saw haw Spags/Schurmur tried to insulate him early on by having him throw the ball under 3 seconds no matter what and how that is a debilitating development tool for a true NFL QB.

However......you are in the third year of the Fisher regime. You know the OC and what he likes and you have input into game planning and scheming and adjustments. The offense has effectively been given to you. You have a young group of inconsistent but talented WRs/TEs. You have the cornerstones have having an above average OL. You have 4 years of NFL experience. And you have a D that SHOULD keep games close almost always.

For me it is up to Bradford to put the Offense on his back and truly make that unit (if not the entire team) his. For me he needs to teach, motivate, trust, and demand production and awareness from the young WR group since they are vital to his success. Whether fair or not he needs to stay healthy. He needs to elevate those around him. He needs to be at worst a game manager and at best a top-10 type QB. He needs to do a lot of that in a brutal division. I know some of those situations can be unfair or variables can sabotage them (no pun intended) but if we end up another season with Sam being a middle of the road QB and the team having a middle of the road record then everyone needs to take a step back and see if this is where we are heading. If have news for some of you, IF Bradford is extended and the Rams commit to him long-term than it won't be for free. He will be one of the highest paid QBs in the league and expectations should match salary. In addition. Fisher is hitching his and his staffs reputations and jobs on him. IF he is back he needs to be someone that Fisher himself truly believes has IT and can be a difference maker. If not, I'd rather struggle with a youngster making stupid mistakes and making less money but who has big time potential, or a game manager who can hand the ball off 30 times a game and complete 3rd down a 4 plays and that's it.

I really believe in the guy but he can really really frustrate me. I know many of you disagree and I get that but for me this is make or break.

I agree with most of this but the Rams aren't evening asking him to carry the team. They have made it clear they aren't doing that. They are going to be a run first team that plays physically on both LOS if Bradford can't shine in that role then when will he? I agree with Max... actually I thought 2013 was the year for him to prove it. No more excuses just be the difference in them winning and losing a couple of times. On paper the Rams are carbon copies of their divisional opponents. Now its up to him to be the difference maker... the reason the Rams become better than those guys. The Rams went 7-9 with Clemens. He needs to be 3 wins at least better than that. I don't think that's unreasonable

 

[max]

All I'm asking from Bradford is to be as good as Phil Simms. No critical mistakes and make clutch throws in critical situations to win games. And stay on the field for 16+ games.

If he can't do that this year, then sayonara Sam.

 

[ED_29]

Just for fun, here's an interesting stat.

Aaron Rodgers has been sacked a total of 139 times over the past 4 years. Bradford has been sacked 120 times over that same time period.

heres another

RW 26tds, sacked 44 times, oline ranked dead last in the league in pass protection, and WRs no better than the Rams

Sam needs to stay healthy and start producing. If he does his part and Rams still lose then we will be able to see that. If he does his part and the Rams are winning it could be a very special season

 

[BigRamFan]

Sure....I thought about adding why I am not on the Bradford Train, but thought it was a long enough post. Its not a train of thought grounded in logic or facts either. I realize its something that I see and maybe not by others. I try to stay on an even path when I talk about it, so here goes:

I do not see the, "It" factor in Sam. I do not see the level of passion for the game or the teammates in his body language, words and eyes etc. His actions on the field show physical and mental talent in the, "Above Average" range for a QB, but...............not the emotional talent I desire in an elite QB.

My definition of the, "IT" factor = a player who wins games despite his own physical limitations, the limitations of his team and the ability of the opponent. I hate using this as an example because many will misunderstand what parts I am looking at, but Tim Tebow had no business winning that many games with Denver.............yet he did. Bret Favre pulled off some crazy wins and most of the time he gave the ball away as much as he scored....(thats the way it looked, not sure what the actual stats show).

Bradford's passion may be an incredible raging Furnace inside, but if his body language doesn't present it his teammates don't benefit from it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[Thordaddy]

In addition. Fisher is hitching his and his staffs reputations and jobs on him.

To be fair Fisher and company are hitching their reputations and jobs on a lot of others as well,and IMO have built a team that won't need to be carried by a QB,for me the big question is ARE THESE GUYS capable of remembering how much they elevated their games ,one and all last year when Sam went down and prepared to look to themselves to continue that or to relax and exhale and ask Sam to do it all ,if they do the former IMO Sams job this year will be a can of corn,FWIW I think Greg Williams is the difference maker now,we are gonna be scary on defense

 

[bluecoconuts]

Sure....I thought about adding why I am not on the Bradford Train, but thought it was a long enough post. Its not a train of thought grounded in logic or facts either. I realize its something that I see and maybe not by others. I try to stay on an even path when I talk about it, so here goes:

I do not see the, "It" factor in Sam. I do not see the level of passion for the game or the teammates in his body language, words and eyes etc. His actions on the field show physical and mental talent in the, "Above Average" range for a QB, but...............not the emotional talent I desire in an elite QB.

My definition of the, "IT" factor = a player who wins games despite his own physical limitations, the limitations of his team and the ability of the opponent. I hate using this as an example because many will misunderstand what parts I am looking at, but Tim Tebow had no business winning that many games with Denver.............yet he did. Bret Favre pulled off some crazy wins and most of the time he gave the ball away as much as he scored....(thats the way it looked, not sure what the actual stats show).

Bradford's passion may be an incredible raging Furnace inside, but if his body language doesn't present it his teammates don't benefit from it.

Since we don't see what goes on behind closed doors, it's hard to say what it's really like.

That being said, the Bradford pregame speech last year showed a lot of passion to me, guys seemed fired up for that game. It was said that Bradford took control of the huddle day 1. He's talking to guys on the sidelines and leading teams through practices.

For what it's worth, many of the things said about Bradford were said about LA Kings captain Dustin Brown. He wasn't a hothead on the ice, he led by example, took blame when it wasn't his, brushed off praise to teammates, and talked behind closed doors. Among NHL executives and inner circles he's considered one of the best captains in the league.

Needless to say, what we see doesn't paint the entire picture. If his teammates vote him as a team captain, there's probably a reason for it.

 

[F. Mulder]

I agree with most of this but the Rams aren't evening asking him to carry the team. They have made it clear they aren't doing that. They are going to be a run first team that plays physically on both LOS if Bradford can't shine in that role then when will he? I agree with Max... actually I thought 2013 was the year for him to prove it.

I agree with this. If the Rams, the Rams/NFL fans, and the players all thought this was "Sam's Team" to win or lose then that only raises the stakes of expectations. At this point most of us want results and within those results includes a QB who can make it happen more times than not and certainly not be the cause of losses.

 

[max]

To be fair Fisher and company are hitching their reputations and jobs on a lot of others as well,and IMO have built a team that won't need to be carried by a QB,for me the big question is ARE THESE GUYS capable of remembering how much they elevated their games ,one and all last year when Sam went down and prepared to look to themselves to continue that or to relax and exhale and ask Sam to do it all ,if they do the former IMO Sams job this year will be a can of corn,FWIW I think Greg Williams is the difference maker now,we are gonna be scary on defense

True that.

No one should be asking Sam to do it all, just give us a a Phil Simms performance.

 

[BigRamFan]

I agree with this. If the Rams, the Rams/NFL fans, and the players all thought this was "Sam's Team" to win or lose then that only raises the stakes of expectations. At this point most of us want results and within those results includes a QB who can make it happen more times than not and certainly not be the cause of losses.

Maybe I missed something here, I drink quite a bit, but I've seen every snap Sam has taken both in STL, and many of those at OU as well, and I don't recall seeing a single game where he was he was "the cause" of a loss. It is, after all, a team game.

 

[Yamahopper]

Maybe I haven't drank enough yet to understand some of these concepts. But Sneed and Fisher didn't draft Bradford on their watch, they don't have that attachment. They haven't been bashful about replacing 98% of the roster they inherited, but Bradford is still here. They haven't forced him to restructure or benched him. They had multiple opportunities to replace him in the draft. But they haven't. Instead they have went all in on him. I know Fisher and Snead are professional experienced football men who have dedicated their lives to trying to the best in their craft. So how can they not see so clearly what the internet GM's and coaches know? Or they seeing the big picture of what Bradford brings to the table?

 

[F. Mulder]

To be fair Fisher and company are hitching their reputations and jobs on a lot of others as well,and IMO have built a team that won't need to be carried by a QB,for me the big question is ARE THESE GUYS capable of remembering how much they elevated their games ,one and all last year when Sam went down and prepared to look to themselves to continue that or to relax and exhale and ask Sam to do it all ,if they do the former IMO Sams job this year will be a can of corn,FWIW I think Greg Williams is the difference maker now,we are gonna be scary on defense

You are right about Fisher hitching their reps on other things than Sam, but Fisher himself said one of the reason he agreed to return was because of having Sam. In addition, you actually seem (at least to me) to support the point of some that when Clemens was in the team didn't miss as many beats as some would have thought initially. The guy (KC) is a limited player but despite that his hustle, grit, and limited skills resulted in some decent games and decent efforts. Sure he often lost out because he is limited as a top-flight QB but for many they cite the fact there should have been broad definitions of differences in how the Offense looked with Sam and with KC. Sam needs to establish a benchmark that is no different than an Ace pitcher on an MLB team and the #5 starter. Every MLB fan can see the drop-off via talent, production, and results. Right now Sam is still flirting with mediocrity for a very highly paid price regarding draft status, salary, and expectations.

 

[rhinobean]

I'm looking for Sam to have his best year and take the Rams to the playoffs. If he has his best year and we don't have a winning record, Schott has to go! If Sam's not good, then I figure it's time for a change. Not as extreme as some about Sam.

 

[F. Mulder]

Maybe I missed something here, I drink quite a bit, but I've seen every snap Sam has taken both in STL, and many of those at OU as well, and I don't recall seeing a single game where he was he was "the cause" of a loss. It is, after all, a team game.

Thanks for this. I drink more than I should too (Lol). I didn't mean to imply he HAS been the cause of losses per se but am saying that at the very least a game manager doesn't "LOSE" games from mistakes. I am trying to differentiate the expectations of Sam as an elite-type QB vs. those who are lower. Frankly, I'd rather lose a game or two where Sam took a risk than to lose 4-5 because he played it safe. I want to see him DICTATE the action and not be passive and respond to it. I frankly think Spags and his 3 second whistle fucked Sam up big-time.

 

[F. Mulder]

Maybe I haven't drank enough yet to understand some of these concepts. But Sneed and Fisher didn't draft Bradford on their watch, they don't have that attachment. They haven't been bashful about replacing 98% of the roster they inherited, but Bradford is still here. They haven't forced him to restructure or benched him. They had multiple opportunities to replace him in the draft. But they haven't. Instead they have went all in on him. I know Fisher and Snead are professional experienced football men who have dedicated their lives to trying to the best in their craft. So how can they not see so clearly what the internet GM's and coaches know? Or they seeing the big picture of what Bradford brings to the table?

Interesting. Can you expound on this? Are you saying Fisher and staff see things some of us don't? I see a ton to like about Bradford and his skill set, his moxie, and his desire. I want to see more of that transfer to on-field results and not feel-good stories gone south. Personally, I think he has the chance to be a top 5 type QB but hasn't achieved that due to a myriad of factors already discussed. At some point he needs to become THE story and not a byproduct of it and I think this year is that year to determine where most stand regarding him as a future Ram QB.