- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Messages
- 8,874
Nick Wagoner joined Kevin Wheeler to talk bat flips, the Rams heading into the bye week, the vibes around Rams park, the WRs and drop passes.
Listen to Wagoner Talk Rams
Listen to Wagoner Talk Rams
Nick Wagoner Talks Rams O-Line and Dropped Passes
- Thread starter RamBill
- Start date
-
To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Messages
- 8,874
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #2
Rams' offensive line working to improve at pass protection
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...e-line-seeking-improvement-in-pass-protection
EARTH CITY, Mo. -- In assessing the play of his offensive line in last week's loss to Green Bay, St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher was quick to point out the progress it's made in the run game. But he also acknowledged the continued struggles to protect quarterback Nick Foles.
“Well, we gave up three sacks," Fisher said. "He had time, but we had too many hits."
It was a line that Fisher probably could have uttered after just about any of his team's first five games. Sacks haven't really been an issue, as the Rams rank near the middle of the pack in that category, yielding nine. But, much like you can't judge a pass rush's success solely on sacks, how well an offensive line protects the quarterback can't be measured solely in sacks allowed.
That's where the numbers show that the Rams' young offensive line has struggled to protect Foles, often putting him under duress, letting him get hit, forcing him to throw the ball away or some combination of the above.
According to Pro Football Focus, Foles has been pressured more than all but one other NFL quarterback, at 44.8 percent; only Seattle's Russell Wilson has been swarmed by defenders more. The line has also allowed 19 quarterback hits.
Perhaps most glaring in looking closer at how often Foles has been pressured is the amount of times he's had to throw the ball away. Foles has 16 throwaways when under pressure, the most in the NFL. In other words, while Foles is doing what he can to not take sacks, he's often found himself without enough time to go through progressions.
With Todd Gurley and the running game finding some traction over the past two weeks, the line's primary focus during this bye week has been on getting the kinks in pass protection worked out.
“They’re way ahead of where I thought they’d be in the run game," Fisher said. "I think we have some work to do in the pass game. Just in subtle techniques. It’s not a matter of having mental errors and things like that. They know what to do. The group has to work together."
To this point, working together has been a work in progress for a group that features two rookies in left guard Jamon Brown and right tackle Rob Havenstein, an inexperienced starter at center in Tim Barnes, injury-prone right guard Rodger Saffold and second-year left tackle Greg Robinson. That group wasn't assembled as such until the end of the preseason.
That's made finding the chemistry necessary to handle all of the nuances of playing on the line a week-to-week proposition. As Robinson points out, having one player miss a call or take the wrong set on any given play can throw the whole thing off.
The Rams' struggles in pass protection have been particularly noticeable when defenses use twists and stunts, or in any situations where communication is paramount.
"We all have to be on the same page," Brown said. "That’s the biggest thing. Being able to execute different things and pick up different blitzes is just communication to make sure we are on the same page or same levels to make sure we can do whatever we have to do to go execute."
The key to doing that? According to Brown, it starts with the eyes. On a given play, each lineman has to identify what the defense is trying to do, understand the line call to handle what the defense is doing and make any adjustments that might come when a defender tips his hand. Those were things that probably would have come along quicker had Fisher settled on a starting five sooner.
Rookies Brown and Havenstein spent most of the offseason playing together on the right side until Brown switched to the left side before the season. With Saffold out with a shoulder injury and Garrett Reynolds set to step in, the Rams could again find themselves tinkering with the alignment, which would require another adjustment for the line.
"Going into the preseason, when me and Rob was on the same side, we saw a lot of that early," Brown said. "Obviously, splitting us up, putting us on two different sides made it a little harder to pinpoint us and pick us out. We still had our share of twists and games that were thrown at us, and I think teams are going to continue to do it because it’s the hardest thing to pick up. Blitzes are a lot easier to pick up. The twist game, there’s a lot that goes into it. We’re prepared for it. We have got beaten a couple of times on twists so we know teams are going to throw that at us."
During this bye week, the offensive line has spent extra time on the field and in meetings trying to work out the issues that have plagued them in the first five weeks. To be sure, the offense's struggles -- the Rams are last in the NFL in yards per game -- aren't all a product of the line's struggles. Pass catchers have struggled to make catches, and Foles on occasion has made an ill-advised decisions rather than take a sack.
But the way they view it, everything the Rams are trying to get done starts in the trenches. And until the line fixes what ails it, the offense will continue to hold the Rams back.
"Obviously it’s a group effort," Havenstein said. "It’s everything that goes into an offense. We preach that every day. It’s not just us up front in protection, but a lot of it does come down to us. Winning one-on-ones, knowing where the help is, all of that stuff. But like I said before, we have got to have a better game, keep Nick clean, give him options and he’s going to make the right throw."
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...e-line-seeking-improvement-in-pass-protection
EARTH CITY, Mo. -- In assessing the play of his offensive line in last week's loss to Green Bay, St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher was quick to point out the progress it's made in the run game. But he also acknowledged the continued struggles to protect quarterback Nick Foles.
“Well, we gave up three sacks," Fisher said. "He had time, but we had too many hits."
It was a line that Fisher probably could have uttered after just about any of his team's first five games. Sacks haven't really been an issue, as the Rams rank near the middle of the pack in that category, yielding nine. But, much like you can't judge a pass rush's success solely on sacks, how well an offensive line protects the quarterback can't be measured solely in sacks allowed.
That's where the numbers show that the Rams' young offensive line has struggled to protect Foles, often putting him under duress, letting him get hit, forcing him to throw the ball away or some combination of the above.
According to Pro Football Focus, Foles has been pressured more than all but one other NFL quarterback, at 44.8 percent; only Seattle's Russell Wilson has been swarmed by defenders more. The line has also allowed 19 quarterback hits.
Perhaps most glaring in looking closer at how often Foles has been pressured is the amount of times he's had to throw the ball away. Foles has 16 throwaways when under pressure, the most in the NFL. In other words, while Foles is doing what he can to not take sacks, he's often found himself without enough time to go through progressions.
With Todd Gurley and the running game finding some traction over the past two weeks, the line's primary focus during this bye week has been on getting the kinks in pass protection worked out.
“They’re way ahead of where I thought they’d be in the run game," Fisher said. "I think we have some work to do in the pass game. Just in subtle techniques. It’s not a matter of having mental errors and things like that. They know what to do. The group has to work together."
To this point, working together has been a work in progress for a group that features two rookies in left guard Jamon Brown and right tackle Rob Havenstein, an inexperienced starter at center in Tim Barnes, injury-prone right guard Rodger Saffold and second-year left tackle Greg Robinson. That group wasn't assembled as such until the end of the preseason.
That's made finding the chemistry necessary to handle all of the nuances of playing on the line a week-to-week proposition. As Robinson points out, having one player miss a call or take the wrong set on any given play can throw the whole thing off.
The Rams' struggles in pass protection have been particularly noticeable when defenses use twists and stunts, or in any situations where communication is paramount.
"We all have to be on the same page," Brown said. "That’s the biggest thing. Being able to execute different things and pick up different blitzes is just communication to make sure we are on the same page or same levels to make sure we can do whatever we have to do to go execute."
The key to doing that? According to Brown, it starts with the eyes. On a given play, each lineman has to identify what the defense is trying to do, understand the line call to handle what the defense is doing and make any adjustments that might come when a defender tips his hand. Those were things that probably would have come along quicker had Fisher settled on a starting five sooner.
Rookies Brown and Havenstein spent most of the offseason playing together on the right side until Brown switched to the left side before the season. With Saffold out with a shoulder injury and Garrett Reynolds set to step in, the Rams could again find themselves tinkering with the alignment, which would require another adjustment for the line.
"Going into the preseason, when me and Rob was on the same side, we saw a lot of that early," Brown said. "Obviously, splitting us up, putting us on two different sides made it a little harder to pinpoint us and pick us out. We still had our share of twists and games that were thrown at us, and I think teams are going to continue to do it because it’s the hardest thing to pick up. Blitzes are a lot easier to pick up. The twist game, there’s a lot that goes into it. We’re prepared for it. We have got beaten a couple of times on twists so we know teams are going to throw that at us."
During this bye week, the offensive line has spent extra time on the field and in meetings trying to work out the issues that have plagued them in the first five weeks. To be sure, the offense's struggles -- the Rams are last in the NFL in yards per game -- aren't all a product of the line's struggles. Pass catchers have struggled to make catches, and Foles on occasion has made an ill-advised decisions rather than take a sack.
But the way they view it, everything the Rams are trying to get done starts in the trenches. And until the line fixes what ails it, the offense will continue to hold the Rams back.
"Obviously it’s a group effort," Havenstein said. "It’s everything that goes into an offense. We preach that every day. It’s not just us up front in protection, but a lot of it does come down to us. Winning one-on-ones, knowing where the help is, all of that stuff. But like I said before, we have got to have a better game, keep Nick clean, give him options and he’s going to make the right throw."
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Messages
- 8,874
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
JT: Rams Must ‘Make Hay’ With Favorable Schedule After Bye
Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch joined The Hollywood Casino Press Box on Thursday to talk a number of topics surrounding the Rams, which is on a bye week before taking on the Cleveland Browns at the Edward Jones Dome next week.
Listen to JT Talk Rams
Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch joined The Hollywood Casino Press Box on Thursday to talk a number of topics surrounding the Rams, which is on a bye week before taking on the Cleveland Browns at the Edward Jones Dome next week.
Listen to JT Talk Rams
FRO
Legend
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Messages
- 5,308
When you go into a season with a super inexperienced line, things aren't going to start well for you. 2-3 isn't the worst start in the world, but the poor line play may have cost is a couple of games. Hopefully they will get their act together after the bye, but that's not a given and it may take all year. I'm not sure the run blocking has been all that great either, Gurley may have them looking better than they really are.
Alan
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 9,766
I've read some comments about Foles needing to get rid of the ball sooner, just take a sack or through it away more. Well, this
"It was a line that Fisher probably could have uttered after just about any of his team's first five games. Sacks haven't really been an issue, as the Rams rank near the middle of the pack in that category, yielding nine. But, much like you can't judge a pass rush's success solely on sacks, how well an offensive line protects the quarterback can't be measured solely in sacks allowed."
response, while not saying it outright, makes me wonder if that's true. Considering how few times he's been sacked and how few times he's been intercepted (especially prior to this game), he must be doing all those things fairly often. How else can you explain those results? As of the moment, I'm going with the O-line being the main culprit.
"It was a line that Fisher probably could have uttered after just about any of his team's first five games. Sacks haven't really been an issue, as the Rams rank near the middle of the pack in that category, yielding nine. But, much like you can't judge a pass rush's success solely on sacks, how well an offensive line protects the quarterback can't be measured solely in sacks allowed."
response, while not saying it outright, makes me wonder if that's true. Considering how few times he's been sacked and how few times he's been intercepted (especially prior to this game), he must be doing all those things fairly often. How else can you explain those results? As of the moment, I'm going with the O-line being the main culprit.
GoldenAges
UDFA
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2015
- Messages
- 26
- Name
- Gold
What I am seeing is Foles getting hit a lot because he just can't seem to avoid anyone rushing him. He is a bit statuesque back there and he really needs to work on his drop backs because I noticed in this last game that his drop back is so shallow and slow that he is not getting enough separation from the LOS. His footwork needs a lot of work and he needs to pick up the tempo.
The OL on the other hand has really impressed me. I watch a ton of NFL football and there are plenty of QB's who would do very well behind this OL. If Foles doesn't take responsibility and improve his drop backs and improve his mobility, or escapability, this amount of pressure he is getting is always going to be an issue for him.
I also noticed in the Packers game that there were several blitzes that seemed to catch Foles off guard and he had not called any audibles to change his protections, or to counter the blitz with a "hot route". Don't get me wrong, I am a Nick Foles fan, but he has issues he needs to work to correct if he wants to be a big time NFL QB. I am not going to blame it all on the OL because it's simply not all their fault.
The OL on the other hand has really impressed me. I watch a ton of NFL football and there are plenty of QB's who would do very well behind this OL. If Foles doesn't take responsibility and improve his drop backs and improve his mobility, or escapability, this amount of pressure he is getting is always going to be an issue for him.
I also noticed in the Packers game that there were several blitzes that seemed to catch Foles off guard and he had not called any audibles to change his protections, or to counter the blitz with a "hot route". Don't get me wrong, I am a Nick Foles fan, but he has issues he needs to work to correct if he wants to be a big time NFL QB. I am not going to blame it all on the OL because it's simply not all their fault.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2014
- Messages
- 3,259
i honestly believe Foles tries too hard to make something happen on every play. believe it or not, sometimes making something happen is by not allowing something bad to happen. incomplete pass vs. sack, sack & fumble, interception, interception becoming many points for the other team. i'll take incomplete pass. just the pick 6 alone and its a 17-10 game. when the defense only allows GB 17 points on offense at Lambeau, the offense needs to step it up and respond. if the Rams ever get this offense on track, they could be a good football team. i'm hoping the steelers game isnt the difference between watching or playing in the playoffs in january.
RaminExile
Hall of Fame
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2013
- Messages
- 3,065
He's got to get rid of the ball a bit quicker too. I've seen him even when he has time, look at his target and see he can get the ball to him, and then it seems to take a second or two for that decision to be cleared in his brain. Like he double checks it - "Can I get it there? Yup Nick, looks good - ok Nick we'll let it rip". I want him to just be a bit more decisive, see it and throw it straight away. That might be why historically Foles throws so few picks (don't look at last week....) but takes a lot of pressure.
fearsomefour
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2013
- Messages
- 17,140
Watching SF last year Kaperdoodle created a lot of sacks because he has no idea how to move in the pocket. Instead of stepping up into a pocket that was there he would tuck the ball (eliminating any chance of making a quick throw) and look to run.
I see Foles create pressure sometimes by rolling to his right, always to his right, when he feels pressure that may not be there. In the Washington game there was a play where Robinson blocked his man down inside....there was no one to to Foles left, feeling pressure that wasn't really there he rolled to his right....running past Saffold who had his back to Foles, Saffolds guy just peeled off and gave chase. He created pressure on that play.
It is a mix of things. The O line has certainly done their part to create pressure....not picking up simples twists or stunts (again), whiffing on blocks and not having a consistent running game. Foles does his part as well. Until the running game works well enough where play action has meaning some struggle with both will continue I think.
fearsomefour
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2013
- Messages
- 17,140
This is the knock of Foles. Slow through progressions and finding secondary guys. Leads to plenty of check downs too. In Philly throwing to RBs is a decent chunk of the offense. Here it is a lack of early down production. The running and play action is what Foles needs more than anything. If that doesn't develop I think Foles will continue to be up and down. His last 13 games (after his "dream" season) he has 19 TDs and 15 INTs. Thats who he is without extra help from the O in my opinion.
Robocop
Pro Bowler
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
- Messages
- 1,933
- Name
- J.
the line might be bad but we have enough weapons for Foles to play like he did in 2013. yes he's gotta get smarter with all that but for now just use him like Kelly did. quick passes to Tavon and Sted, pound the ball with Gurley and just check down to the backs when he needs to. then take your play action shots downfield to our big guys Quick and Britt
BonifayRam
Legend
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 13,435
- Name
- Vernon
I sure, hope that's not the case. I have seen enough the last two seasons to desire something else to watch. Not what I want to pay to see!
I would prefer to see more of Cory and Justice myself.
FRO
Legend
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2013
- Messages
- 5,308
I disagree. I think our receivers and TEs are below average on whole.
Alan
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 9,766
I agree with all your observations. That's why I said the O-line was the main culprit. Fole's has many areas in his game that he needs to improve on but he had those same issues in his first year with the Shegals. What his success in his first season tells me is that they are minor in comparison to other factors (O-line being one of them) and not show stoppers in and of themselves. Connecting the dots in your two statements, "Watching SF last year Kaperdoodle created a lot of sacks because he has no idea how to move in the pocket." and "I see Foles create pressure sometimes by rolling to his right" leads me to think that unlike Kapernoodle, Fole's is able to recognize when he needs to move in the pocket and does so. The fact that he predominately moves in one direction is a trait that is common among most QBs. Humans are after all, right handed or left handed in our brains. There is a reason why players often do better at RG than at LG. I don't look at this as anything other than a minor fault even though, as you pointed out, it can have a detrimental effect on a given play.