New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[The Ripper]

Not sure that's what the decision says but even if it does, it isn't a ruling on the case involving stadium financing and the judge would still have to rule if it does contradict anyway.

The state can issue bonds but it doesn't force the city to pay for them

 

[blue4]

So you guys don't think we've improved or that we're closer to being a good team now than we were before Stan started changing up the front office?

Once again, it doesn't matter what I as a fan think. It's the end result they will look at. They aren't going to go thru our roster position by position wondering if we may be deceptively good.

 

[iced]

Once again, it doesn't matter what I as a fan think. It's the end result they will look at. They aren't going to go thru our roster position by position wondering if we may be deceptively good.

Exactly

The same argument could be made after Devaney and Spags first season, when they hired Mcdaniels... every predicted an offensive explosion

its naive to think owners look at our team and will try to predict success off of it, when there's been nothing but a history of failure..

 

[The Ripper]

uh yes he has - it is more than well documented at this Point Peacock has stated that Kroenke has been refusing to talk to the task force, and only after Goodell had addressed it when was we started hearing From Demoff.

Call it what you want - I don't hear any other task forces that are describing teams "as unwilling to return phone calls", unlike Spanos and Davis. They gave the perception they were willing from the get go; hell you could argue for the past 14 years - you can't say the same for Kroenke, who is "hell bent on getting to LA" and is "going to build a stadium regardless."

Does that sound like someone who is negotiating to you?

Peacock said he hasn't spoken to Kroenke not that he refused to talk. Demoff has been in the meetings since the beginning there hasn't been any direct quote from Peacock or the NFL that they had to force Demoff to attend the meetings.

There are more complaints in SD in regards to the tactics from Fabiani.

 

[iced]

Peacock said he has spoken to Kroenke not that he refused to talk. Demoff has been in the meetings since the beginning there has been any direct quote from Peacock or the NFL that they had to force Demoff to attend the meetings.

Speaking once in 18 months, let alone by chance at the owner's meeting?

Yea that really shows a guy who's willing to negotiate

I don't know even why you're defending his actions at this point - from the get go, he's never shown an inclination to stay here

There are more complaints in SD in regards to the tactics from Fabiani.

Lol please - St.Louis is a show me state. He's done nothing but alienate the fan base for the past few years - something you can't complain about the Chargers. They're not screwing over their fans, holding practices in carson, etc.

 

[RamFan503]

The state can issue bonds but it doesn't force the city to pay for them

Not what I'm getting out of the decision. Seems to center more around the definition of "sustainable energy producer", restrictive nature of the initiative petition, and lack of clarity of language.

Judges don't like it when they feel the voter could be confused by what they are being asked to vote on. To wit -

We agree with Plaintiffs that a reasonable person would not read the summary statement and the term "Unsustainable Energy Producers" and think that all these different types of businesses which produce literally zero energy would be excluded from any city-controlled financial incentives.
In summary, because there is no requirement in the Charter that Drafters include a summary statement or any guidance as to what constitutes a proper summary statement, Plaintiffs' first point is denied. However, we would urge Drafters to be more precise in their use of language if they plan on bringing further petitions in the future.

 

[RamFan503]

Once again, it doesn't matter what I as a fan think. It's the end result they will look at. They aren't going to go thru our roster position by position wondering if we may be deceptively good.

We're just going to disagree here. Other owners and the NFL are very unlikely to be so narrow as to only look at W/L records. They will look at what has been done in the community (very big key to determine owner participation in the market) , what has been done to change the woes of the franchise (the money will play in here), and what steps the owner has taken to improve the product.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Once again, it doesn't matter what I as a fan think. It's the end result they will look at. They aren't going to go thru our roster position by position wondering if we may be deceptively good.

If the city says that the lack of support is because of lack of success, and Kroenke counters that since he has become majority owner and began making his mark on the team, they have improved significantly, you don't think the owners are going to look at the team? A billion dollar decision and they're not going to do their homework on everything?

 

[RamFan503]

its naive to think owners look at our team and will try to predict success off of it, when there's been nothing but a history of failure..

And I think it is naïve to think the NFL nor its owners pay attention to what other owners are doing and only to W/L records.

 

[RamFan503]

If the city says that the lack of support is because of lack of success, and Kroenke counters that since he has become majority owner and began making his mark on the team, they have improved significantly, you don't think the owners are going to look at the team? A billion dollar decision and they're not going to do their homework on everything?

You mean they're not buying a slurpy?

 

[bluecoconuts]

He's done nothing but alienate the fan base for the past few years - something you can't complain about the Chargers. They're not screwing over their fans, holding practices in carson, etc.

Uh, again I'm going to say that San Diego would not agree with this statement at all. These people have literally filed a lawsuit to get Fabiani removed from negotiations, saying that he has done nothing but destroy any potential negotiations, and alienate the fanbase. They've talked of wanting Spanos to step down regardless of what happens as well, they have been very alienated and they feel they have been very screwed over.

 

[OldSchool]

uh yes he has - it is more than well documented at this Point Peacock has stated that Kroenke has been refusing to talk to the task force, and only after Goodell had addressed it when was we started hearing From Demoff.

Call it what you want - I don't hear any other task forces that are describing teams "as unwilling to return phone calls", unlike Spanos and Davis. They gave the perception they were willing from the get go; hell you could argue for the past 14 years - you can't say the same for Kroenke, who is "hell bent on getting to LA" and is "going to build a stadium regardless."

Does that sound like someone who is negotiating to you?

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_e536baff-e096-5a88-8963-688b7151ebe8.html

We’re told that Kroenke and Peacock had an amiable encounter and discussed topics ranging from Mizzou athletics to the NBA.

In case you’re wondering … yes, Peacock and Kroenke did touch on the local efforts to build an NFL stadium on the north riverfront of downtown St. Louis.

“Stan was encouraging and appreciative, and really couldn’t have been nicer,” Peacock said.

Sure seems like Stan is unwilling to talk with Peacock and he sure seems to be angry at Stan.

http://www.missourinet.com/2015/06/...etings-on-l-a-peacock-and-blitz-not-involved/

The NFL’s committee on Los Angeles football got together Wednesday in New York, with the owners of the Chargers, Raiders, and Stan Kroenke of the Rams. Despite the meeting including a “home market” update on St. Louis (as well as Oakland and San Diego) that group, headed by Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz were not in attendance.

Hmmmm at that meeting the Rams gave the update on both Inglewood and St Louis stadium efforts. I wonder how Kroenke did that if he never talks to St Louis?

But then again he pays Demoff to do his talking and negotiating.

 

[OldSchool]

Uh, again I'm going to say that San Diego would not agree with this statement at all. These people have literally filed a lawsuit to get Fabiani removed from negotiations, saying that he has done nothing but destroy any potential negotiations, and alienate the fanbase. They've talked of wanting Spanos to step down regardless of what happens as well, they have been very alienated and they feel they have been very screwed over.

Haha anybody who'd talked to Charger fans or read their forums would agree with you. Fabiani and Spanos are hated in San Diego.

 

[blue4]

If the city says that the lack of support is because of lack of success, and Kroenke counters that since he has become majority owner and began making his mark on the team, they have improved significantly, you don't think the owners are going to look at the team? A billion dollar decision and they're not going to do their homework on everything?

No I don't. I don't think they will go thru our roster and give us credit. But I do like how when we talk about reasons why things are the way they are in St Louis you say it's a results business and the owners won't care to hear our excuses or reasons. But when it's the Rams turn, the excuses pour like Niagara Falls and they all get to have merit.

 

[bluecoconuts]

No I don't. I don't think they will go thru our roster and give us credit. But I do like how when we talk about reasons why things are the way they are in St Louis you say it's a results business and the owners won't care to hear our excuses or reasons. But when it's the Rams turn, the excuses pour like Niagara Falls and they all get to have merit.

That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm saying that if the market studies do indeed show there isn't very much corporate support in St Louis, the city is going to need to come up with a solution that satisfies the owners, and simply saying that the team on the field is why probably isn't going to cut it. If the city cannot come up with a solution, it's going to be hard to convince the NFL that Kroenke should be forced to stay and ultimately spend a lot of money in the city for a stadium that he wont even own.

 

[blue4]

We're just going to disagree here. Other owners and the NFL are very unlikely to be so narrow as to only look at W/L records. They will look at what has been done in the community (very big key to determine owner participation in the market) , what has been done to change the woes of the franchise (the money will play in here), and what steps the owner has taken to improve the product.

Yep we certainly disagree. As I said to bluecoconuts, it's all about results when it's St Louis's turn. But every excuse works when it's the Rams. Can't win football games? Not his fault. We gave it our best shot dang it. Alienated the fan base? Not his fault. Businesses are mean to him. The fans are fickle. St Louis offers up a reason why corporate support is low and suddenly we're back to claiming it's a results business no excuses. It's inconsistent.

 

[blue4]

That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm saying that if the market studies do indeed show there isn't very much corporate support in St Louis, the city is going to need to come up with a solution that satisfies the owners, and simply saying that the team on the field is why probably isn't going to cut it. If the city cannot come up with a solution, it's going to be hard to convince the NFL that Kroenke should be forced to stay and ultimately spend a lot of money in the city for a stadium that he wont even own.

They can also point to the lack of outreach and of course the threat of leaving the city. I don't think those are easily glossed over. It's going to be hard to convince the NFL that the Rams have done all they can.

 

[The Ripper]

They can also point to the lack of outreach and of course the threat of leaving the city. I don't think those are easily glossed over. It's going to be hard to convince the NFL that the Rams have done all they can.

"Arguably no franchise in America has worked harder over the last few years to connect with and impact its community as extensively and consistently as the Rams have. As the team continues to ascend on the field, the stout efforts away from it will be recognized and appreciated by more and more of the region’s residents." Shane Gray

http://www.101sports.com/2013/07/02/rams-community-work-puts-future-fan-at-forefront/

"The Rams have continually expanded their community efforts and outreach since Kroenke took over in 2010. As led by Demoff, the organization became the first team in the city’s history to win its Philanthropic of the Year award. The Rams’ community initiatives are some of the league’s most extensive. They have been done in part to grow the “next-generation fan,” according to Brian Killingsworth of the club’s front office. It would seem odd to constantly increase efforts in this community if it were planning to uproot from it." Shane Gray

http://www.101sports.com/2013/07/15/rams-stadium-and-relocation-prospects-not-as-they-seem/

 

[bluecoconuts]

They can also point to the lack of outreach and of course the threat of leaving the city. I don't think those are easily glossed over. It's going to be hard to convince the NFL that the Rams have done all they can.

The Rams seem to be pretty active in the community, simply saying that the threat of leaving the city probably wont satisfy the owners either, especially if the issues started before the threat came up, which is likely. It's going to be a lot easier to convince the NFL that the juice isn't worth the squeeze if the city doesn't have a real solution for the problem, then it is to convince them to force him to stay, even with a solution.

 

[iced]

Uh, again I'm going to say that San Diego would not agree with this statement at all. These people have literally filed a lawsuit to get Fabiani removed from negotiations, saying that he has done nothing but destroy any potential negotiations, and alienate the fanbase. They've talked of wanting Spanos to step down regardless of what happens as well, they have been very alienated and they feel they have been very screwed over.

Seriously? Citizens of St.Louis have done the same...

And I've yet to see a report of Chargers playing in London or practice several states away, let alone the place they're rumored to move to