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blue4

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blue4
Yeah but Moostache is the one using the word "need" and then knocking it down. The NFL wants to be in L.A.

The scale is pretty outrageous. California has 39 million people, Missouri 6 million. So if MO can support 2 teams, CA can support 13. If MO can only support one team, CA can support 6. The gravity of that imbalance is pretty strong, Kroenke certainly seems to be feeling it...

Of course there's Illinois, Kansas, and parts of other states so it's a little misleading to just use Missouri's number. They are also on opposite sides of the state, not fighting over one city.

Other than that I agree. The NFL doesn't need to be there, it wants to be there. Big difference. That's what I was driving at and what I assumed he was trying to say.
 

BuiltRamTough

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Edmond
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...5bf7-bde8-3de07fa37b36.html?mobile_touch=true
MLS likes new stadium plans here : News
ST. LOUIS • The commissioner of Major League Soccer called St. Louis a “great soccer market” on Tuesday, boosting hopes that a proposed open-air football stadium downtown could — eventually — draw a soccer team as well.

At the same time, Commissioner Don Garber said growing MLS was a “long-term project” and cautioned that any expansion into St. Louis wouldn’t happen before 2020 and would also need an ownership group to step forward.

Garber flew into town from Los Angeles to meet with local business leaders and public officials, including Gov. Jay Nixon and Mayor Francis Slay. He talked at length with Dave Peacock, who co-leads Nixon’s stadium task force, and the HOK architects designing the stadium. He stressed it was merely a fact-finding visit, “an opportunity to learn more about what’s happening in St. Louis.”

Advertisement: Story Continues Below

“This is a city that just loves the sport, and has so many people committed to it,” Garber told the Post-Dispatch early Tuesday afternoon. “We really hope to be able to work with them.”

But it won’t be for a while. The league, which currently has 20 teams, set a goal of 24 teams by 2020 and will reach that by 2018 with the addition of teams in Atlanta, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and a David Beckham-led team likely in Miami. In the next six months, the league will determine its future expansion plans, and Garber expects the league to go beyond 24, though he couldn’t say how far or how soon. He noted during a question-and-answer session with fans at Ballpark Village that while the league didn’t plan to expand again until after 2020, things sometimes happened faster than expected in MLS.

Garber also said it was far too early to talk about the financial commitment a team would make and how any lease might be structured. While MLS has pushed for teams to play in soccer-specific stadiums (particularly downtown stadiums), he said he liked what he saw in HOK’s stadium renderings, in which a curtain would come down from the stadium’s roof to cover the upper deck and reduce the stadium capacity to about 38,000.

“The optimum environment for us is to play in a soccer-specific stadium,” Garber said. “That will always be our goal, but it’s not always achievable in every market. It’s certainly much more attractive when a football stadium is built with MLS in mind, and that’s the plan that these folks have done.”

Nixon’s task force has dangled the MLS in front of area soccer fans since January, when it announced plans — including drawings of a soccer field in the new facility — to build the $985 million stadium.

The task force is now cementing its financing plan for that stadium, after facing several legal and funding hurdles. Last week, Peacock presented some adjusted figures: About $250 million in bonds from the city and state, plus $150 million in tax credits and other tax programs, $130 million in seat licenses and $450 million from team ownership, including an NFL loan.

On Tuesday, Garber killed any hopes that an MLS team could help with construction funding.

Groups in Sacramento, San Antonio and Las Vegas have also expressed interest in joining MLS.

“We’re out meeting with cities across the country to see what opportunities might exist,” Garber said. “And St. Louis is certainly one of those cities. It’s not something that will happen before 2020 at the earliest.”

Garber said the league has neither identified an owners group in St. Louis, nor is it seeking one.

Still, he gushed about his visit here.

“To be very clear, this is an opportunity for us to learn more about what’s happening here in St. Louis as it relates to their great stadium project,” Garber said. “And meeting with the political folks and city leaders who have done, I think, such a terrific job in rallying people together behind a great urban redevelopment concept.”

Garber called his meeting with Nixon “terrific,” and the stadium’s multi-use potential “very attractive for us.”

“We know the stadium is being built with soccer in mind,” he continued. “And if it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t be here at all.”

MLS and U.S. Soccer officials have noted ticket sales at international professional matches staged here over the past few years. A record crowd showed at Busch Stadium last month to watch the U.S. women’s team defeat New Zealand. “They killed it,” Garber said. “It was great.”

Every U.S. World Cup team has had a St. Louisan on the roster, he said. The mayor met his wife at a soccer match. The brand-new St. Louis Football Club draws 5,000.

“Every time I come here, I get more and more excited about this city,” Garber said. “This is a soccer market.”

If St. Louis could put together an ownership group, then certainly, he said, the riverfront facility “would be a viable stadium option, there’s no doubt about that.”

“But life is a long time,” he said. “We in the MLS need to be sure we always get things right. There is no rush.”

Garber closed his day in St. Louis by meeting with fans at Ballpark Village. About 250 fans attended the late afternoon session, many wearing soccer jerseys or scarves. The mention of Peacock’s name brought a big ovation from the fans on hand, as did a mention of stadium plans.

“It’s more positives than we’ve heard in a long time,” said Nate Hussey, a member of the Louligans, the St. Louis soccer fan group.
 

BuiltRamTough

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Messages
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Edmond
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...5bf7-bde8-3de07fa37b36.html?mobile_touch=true
MLS likes new stadium plans here : News
ST. LOUIS • The commissioner of Major League Soccer called St. Louis a “great soccer market” on Tuesday, boosting hopes that a proposed open-air football stadium downtown could — eventually — draw a soccer team as well.

At the same time, Commissioner Don Garber said growing MLS was a “long-term project” and cautioned that any expansion into St. Louis wouldn’t happen before 2020 and would also need an ownership group to step forward.

Garber flew into town from Los Angeles to meet with local business leaders and public officials, including Gov. Jay Nixon and Mayor Francis Slay. He talked at length with Dave Peacock, who co-leads Nixon’s stadium task force, and the HOK architects designing the stadium. He stressed it was merely a fact-finding visit, “an opportunity to learn more about what’s happening in St. Louis.”

Advertisement: Story Continues Below

“This is a city that just loves the sport, and has so many people committed to it,” Garber told the Post-Dispatch early Tuesday afternoon. “We really hope to be able to work with them.”

But it won’t be for a while. The league, which currently has 20 teams, set a goal of 24 teams by 2020 and will reach that by 2018 with the addition of teams in Atlanta, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and a David Beckham-led team likely in Miami. In the next six months, the league will determine its future expansion plans, and Garber expects the league to go beyond 24, though he couldn’t say how far or how soon. He noted during a question-and-answer session with fans at Ballpark Village that while the league didn’t plan to expand again until after 2020, things sometimes happened faster than expected in MLS.

Garber also said it was far too early to talk about the financial commitment a team would make and how any lease might be structured. While MLS has pushed for teams to play in soccer-specific stadiums (particularly downtown stadiums), he said he liked what he saw in HOK’s stadium renderings, in which a curtain would come down from the stadium’s roof to cover the upper deck and reduce the stadium capacity to about 38,000.

“The optimum environment for us is to play in a soccer-specific stadium,” Garber said. “That will always be our goal, but it’s not always achievable in every market. It’s certainly much more attractive when a football stadium is built with MLS in mind, and that’s the plan that these folks have done.”

Nixon’s task force has dangled the MLS in front of area soccer fans since January, when it announced plans — including drawings of a soccer field in the new facility — to build the $985 million stadium.

The task force is now cementing its financing plan for that stadium, after facing several legal and funding hurdles. Last week, Peacock presented some adjusted figures: About $250 million in bonds from the city and state, plus $150 million in tax credits and other tax programs, $130 million in seat licenses and $450 million from team ownership, including an NFL loan.

On Tuesday, Garber killed any hopes that an MLS team could help with construction funding.

Groups in Sacramento, San Antonio and Las Vegas have also expressed interest in joining MLS.

“We’re out meeting with cities across the country to see what opportunities might exist,” Garber said. “And St. Louis is certainly one of those cities. It’s not something that will happen before 2020 at the earliest.”

Garber said the league has neither identified an owners group in St. Louis, nor is it seeking one.

Still, he gushed about his visit here.

“To be very clear, this is an opportunity for us to learn more about what’s happening here in St. Louis as it relates to their great stadium project,” Garber said. “And meeting with the political folks and city leaders who have done, I think, such a terrific job in rallying people together behind a great urban redevelopment concept.”

Garber called his meeting with Nixon “terrific,” and the stadium’s multi-use potential “very attractive for us.”

“We know the stadium is being built with soccer in mind,” he continued. “And if it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t be here at all.”

MLS and U.S. Soccer officials have noted ticket sales at international professional matches staged here over the past few years. A record crowd showed at Busch Stadium last month to watch the U.S. women’s team defeat New Zealand. “They killed it,” Garber said. “It was great.”

Every U.S. World Cup team has had a St. Louisan on the roster, he said. The mayor met his wife at a soccer match. The brand-new St. Louis Football Club draws 5,000.

“Every time I come here, I get more and more excited about this city,” Garber said. “This is a soccer market.”

If St. Louis could put together an ownership group, then certainly, he said, the riverfront facility “would be a viable stadium option, there’s no doubt about that.”

“But life is a long time,” he said. “We in the MLS need to be sure we always get things right. There is no rush.”

Garber closed his day in St. Louis by meeting with fans at Ballpark Village. About 250 fans attended the late afternoon session, many wearing soccer jerseys or scarves. The mention of Peacock’s name brought a big ovation from the fans on hand, as did a mention of stadium plans.

“It’s more positives than we’ve heard in a long time,” said Nate Hussey, a member of the Louligans, the St. Louis soccer fan group.
MLS awarded LA with another club over STL. LA is just that big of a town and it is a sports town. The LA Galaxy is the premier soccer club in America and were awarded with a another. I'm not bragging but it goes to show you how the NFL and other leagues view LA. The NFL might not need LA just like how MLS doesn't need LA they both want LA, that's the difference.
 

BuiltRamTough

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MLS expansion team Los Angeles F.C. plans $250 million stadium

MLS expansion team Los Angeles Football Club has put forth plans for a $250 million privately-financed open-air soccer stadium that will be built on the site of the Sports Arena in Exposition Park. The Sports Arena was built in 1959 and has been in disuse for some time.

While the stadium will be privately financed, it will be eligible for tax incentives. The project still needs approval from the Coliseum Commission and the L.A. City Council, but both groups are expected to approve the project.

From the L.A. Times:

The $250-million complex, covering 15 acres in the shadow of the L.A. Memorial Coliseum, would include a conference center, restaurants and a soccer museum. At its center would be a 22,000-seat stadium, home to the new Major League Soccer franchise when it makes its debut in 2018.

Planners doubt that much local opposition will take place, as the Sports Arena has fallen into disrepair and an update would be appreciated.

It's privately financed.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/05/mls-expansion-team-los-angeles-f-c-plans-250-million-stadium
 

RamFan503

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Stu
Perhaps we have very different personalities. What you describe is a special relationship with your team. I had that with the Cardinals as a kid. They destroyed that relationship. I have it now with the Rams.
I get that the Horns on the field is what you went to see, it's just that by leaving they're telling you they don't care. All those special moments you describe, they're telling you they don't care. They are preventing you from having those. I suppose the reason we don't understand each other on this is because I had a new team move in after the old one left. The void was filled so to speak.
I'm sure we do. That's ok though - I love yuh even though you're so wrong headed.

I can say that it all sucks with how teams have moved around but it's not unlike Boeing moving much of their former facilities out of the Portland area. That is just the business end. I am not a fan for the business end.

Now the problem comes in in that I became a Rams fan as I also became a Dodgers, Lakers, and Kings fan. So obviously the city ties are there. But once I set in with my team, that was it. I even tried watching other teams after the Rams left LA. I just couldn't do it. As soon as I saw the horns again - I was done. And I can say this as kind of a neutral market guy. I just couldn't cheer for another team. Even though I generally liked the AFC Seahawks, and the region I now live in primarily considers itself Shitchicken territory, I just could never make the leap to really caring that much about them. I even went to a shitchickens vs Chefs game with a bunch of Seattle fans. I found myself excited by big plays - not who was making them.

I understand your city first approach and I even applaud how you have explained it. I'm more of a nationalist I suppose at this point as I have moved around quite a bit.
 

RamFan503

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Boltman is simply to make sure the Chargers don’t bolt, man.

Wow.
Wow indeed maaaaaaaaaaannnn. Pretty funny.

I have no idea what to think of that. On the surface, it sounds like BS.
If it walks like a duck.....

If San Diego can do it, so can St. Louis.
That's what I was thinking. I would assume if there is a shred of legitimacy to this guy's claim, you can expect a suit coming out of St Louis in very short order.

Seems like it. I don't know how grounded in reality that would be though.
Not very IMO.

Exactly....the way people talk about the NFL "needing" LA you'd think the league was having the player's mothers stage bake sales in front of the stadiums for Christ's sake...
I don't really recall anyone saying the NFL NEEDS the LA market. Certainly not in the context that you are putting it in.

But seriously, do you expect any business to NOT take advantage of a business opportunity that would gain them many more millions in cash and also a stronger market presence? I don't care how rich someone is or how much money an industry makes, they are going to seize the biggest market share possible.

You talk glowingly about soccer. Do you really think the NFL wants to sit back and watch LA become a soccer town? I can guarantee you, it has a very good chance of that happening with its demographics. They may not need the LA market but they quite possibly need to keep the market share for themselves above what could be a rival sport.

I think it would take quite a while for soccer to displace the NFL in general in any city but LA is just too big for the NFL to resist and also leave future football fans to become futbol fans.

The NFL doesn't need to be there, it wants to be there.
This^^^^
 

Hacksaw

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Mar 8, 2015
Messages
451
So LA gets another MLS team before StL does? What gives?

ST. LOUIS •
The commissioner of Major League Soccer called St. Louis a “great soccer market” on Tuesday, boosting hopes that a proposed open-air football stadium downtown could — eventually — draw a soccer team as well.
But it won’t be for a while. The league, which currently has 20 teams, set a goal of 24 teams by 2020 and will reach that by 2018 with the addition of teams in Atlanta, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and a David Beckham-led team likely in Miami. In the next six months,
 

The Ripper

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Rip
One of the aspects of this whole saga that drives me batshit crazy is the insistence that the NFL "needs" to get back into L.A.

How bad has the NFL done in the 20 years since leaving the L.A. market?
Well, if this is "bad", then I need to be doing a lot worse personally...

1994 TV rights contract (from '94-'97) = ave. annual value = $1.1 Billion
2013 TV rights contract (from '06-'13) = ave. annual value = $3.7 Billion
And the current deal? Try over $5 Billion PER YEAR!

So, a league that so desperately "needs" L.A. has grown its TV revenues by 500% over the last 20 years?

The NFL has grown but how much more would they have grown with LA as a team market. The projections that the networks have thrown out at the renewals is significant and they have been pushing extremely hard to get 2 teams back in the market
 

MrMotes

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May 6, 2014
Messages
954
The NFL has grown but how much more would they have grown with LA as a team market. The projections that the networks have thrown out at the renewals is significant and they have been pushing extremely hard to get 2 teams back in the market

If the NFL is looking for untapped markets to further their growth, L.A. isn't a bad place to look...
 

MaxQ57

UDFA
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
12
This my response to the RAMS email regarding my season tickets regarding why I hadn't renewed.
Not sure this is the right place for this but here goes:

Greetings,

As you know, I am a Charter Member PSL holder of 2 tickets. I have been a faithful and devoted fan for the 20 years the team has been here.

I figure I have paid around $25,000 in season tickets alone.

So what have I received for my 20 years of devotion?

1 SB victory 15 years ago and only 4 winning seasons.

The worst 5 season losing streak in the history of the NFL.

I don't even know if the team will be here after 2015.

Now I am being asked to help finance an outdoor stadium that I feel is totally needless. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ED. It is a very comfortable venue and there is never any snow, rain or freezing temps to contend with while enjoying a game.

I was a football Cardinal Season ticket holder (two tickets) for the 9 years before they left. So I know first hand how miserable sitting outdoors in a St. Louis winter with an out of contention team is. That was 35 years ago. I am now 57 and I will never pay for the privilege of sitting out in the elements again.

I love the RAMS and will still support the team, but I will no longer pay for the privilege.

It time for some others to take up the "yoke".

It seems my faith and loyalty to this team has been betrayed by the RAMS organization.

Thanks for ruining one of the few pleasures I have in this life.

Michael J. Hynes
aka MaxQ57
Sec 314
Row KK
Seats 13 & 14
 

bluecoconuts

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Messages
13,073
Exactly....the way people talk about the NFL "needing" LA you'd think the league was having the player's mothers stage bake sales in front of the stadiums for Christ's sake...

I think you're looking at the word need the wrong way. Do they need Los Angeles to avoid folding as a league? Of course not, they've not only survived without LA, they've thrived. However they set high goals for their annual revenue, 25 billion by 2027 to be exact, and currently well behind on their projections to achieve that goal. So in that sense, do they need LA? Yeah they probably do to meet that goal.

Think about it this way, if I make $100,000 a year do I need $500,000 per year? Of course I don't in terms of survival. But if I plan on retiring at 40 years old to live comfortably on a tropical island I do. Is it greed? Yeah, but if my goal is to do that, and I see a way to make it happens, why wouldn't I?

MLS awarded LA with another club over STL. LA is just that big of a town and it is a sports town. The LA Galaxy is the premier soccer club in America and were awarded with a another. I'm not bragging but it goes to show you how the NFL and other leagues view LA. The NFL might not need LA just like how MLS doesn't need LA they both want LA, that's the difference.

I don't think they awarded it over St Louis, St Louis doesn't even have a venue yet. I think they wanted to take a look as the prospect, and if there was a venue to play there they'd probably do it. Right now that doesn't exist, so they can't award one.
 

Moostache

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Jun 26, 2014
Messages
290
However they set high goals for their annual revenue, 25 billion by 2027 to be exact, and currently well behind on their projections to achieve that goal.
I have some bad news for the NFL, LA or no LA, they are never coming within a country mile of that goal. Its a pipe dream.

If or when the NFL abandons the St. Louis market to further enrich the weirdo and themselves, that will start the ultimate downfall of the league that is already teetering with wife beaters, drunk drivers, pot smokers, steroid abusers, greedy owners, cheating superstars and an inept commissioner.

For good measure, throw in the head trauma and concussion issues, the disgusting way the league has allowed so many of the greats of its past (who BUILT the league in the first place) die in poverty or mental agony like Mike Webster or Junior Seau or Dave Duerson and you have a league that should be really careful about pissing on entire communities, especially ones that have shown a willingness to support them at their absolute worst - in terms of record and community support from the owner.

The documentary from Frontline about the concussion settlement and the whole saga of CTE in players is eye opening.
The abandonment of the St. Louis market to more quickly capture some extra dollars before these sick (of spirit) old bastards die would be just as disgusting.

The NFL looks anything but a league in ascendancy these days and it is entirely just that they are way off target for their $25B.
 

bluecoconuts

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Messages
13,073
I have some bad news for the NFL, LA or no LA, they are never coming within a country mile of that goal. Its a pipe dream.

If or when the NFL abandons the St. Louis market to further enrich the weirdo and themselves, that will start the ultimate downfall of the league that is already teetering with wife beaters, drunk drivers, pot smokers, steroid abusers, greedy owners, cheating superstars and an inept commissioner.

For good measure, throw in the head trauma and concussion issues, the disgusting way the league has allowed so many of the greats of its past (who BUILT the league in the first place) die in poverty or mental agony like Mike Webster or Junior Seau or Dave Duerson and you have a league that should be really careful about pissing on entire communities, especially ones that have shown a willingness to support them at their absolute worst - in terms of record and community support from the owner.

The documentary from Frontline about the concussion settlement and the whole saga of CTE in players is eye opening.
The abandonment of the St. Louis market to more quickly capture some extra dollars before these sick (of spirit) old bastards die would be just as disgusting.

The NFL looks anything but a league in ascendancy these days and it is entirely just that they are way off target for their $25B.

Possibly not, but they're likely closer to it with LA than without.

I don't think that leaving St Louis is going to be the downfall of the NFL. I don't think that 90% of the NFL outside of the Rams fanbase will give two shits about them going back to LA, and that's not a slight on St Louis, that's just the general attitude most people have. If it doesn't affect them, then a lot of people simply don't care. There might be other things that break the NFL, but relocating the Rams wont be it, and I don't see it falling anytime soon.

The NFL is the highest revenue earning professional sport league in the world, they might be off target of their very high goal, but they're still out in front.
 

blue4

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blue4
Possibly not, but they're likely closer to it with LA than without.

I don't think that leaving St Louis is going to be the downfall of the NFL. I don't think that 90% of the NFL outside of the Rams fanbase will give two shits about them going back to LA, and that's not a slight on St Louis, that's just the general attitude most people have. If it doesn't affect them, then a lot of people simply don't care. There might be other things that break the NFL, but relocating the Rams wont be it, and I don't see it falling anytime soon.

The NFL is the highest revenue earning professional sport league in the world, they might be off target of their very high goal, but they're still out in front.


I agree most people won't give a shit. It just seems like bad business to me to destroy the 21st market to get to the 2nd. They won't get to their goal by shedding fans to make more fans. They need to have a plan to keep the STL market. I'm not saying this as a resident, just seems like a bad idea for long term growth. These billionaire owners didn't get to be that way by torching entire markets. I realize it's kind of out of the NFLs ability to control now, but I can't imagine a outside impartial source would view the Rams and Chargers in LA, the Raiders floating broke and almost homeless, and the 21st market in flames as preferable to SD and Oakland in Carson and the Rams in a new stadium here. I do think if Carson is ready by deadline time it gives some owners pause to consider. Of course this all hinges on Carson. It also doesn't take into account the Raiders fleeing to STL in self defense. If you can get the Raiders to go, well that solves a problem in tidy way as well. People may initially dislike it, but it would produce the maximum growth for the league's future in the long term.
 

The Ripper

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Rip
I agree most people won't give a crap. It just seems like bad business to me to destroy the 21st market to get to the 2nd. They won't get to their goal by shedding fans to make more fans. They need to have a plan to keep the STL market. I'm not saying this as a resident, just seems like a bad idea for long term growth. These billionaire owners didn't get to be that way by torching entire markets. I realize it's kind of out of the NFLs ability to control now, but I can't imagine a outside impartial source would view the Rams and Chargers in LA, the Raiders floating broke and almost homeless, and the 21st market in flames as preferable to SD and Oakland in Carson and the Rams in a new stadium here. I do think if Carson is ready by deadline time it gives some owners pause to consider. Of course this all hinges on Carson. It also doesn't take into account the Raiders fleeing to STL in self defense. If you can get the Raiders to go, well that solves a problem in tidy way as well. People may initially dislike it, but it would produce the maximum growth for the league's future in the long term.

The question that hasn't been raised about the minority interest that Davis said he would sell to stay in Oakland, What if some local St Louis buyer put's up 400 million, would he move to St Louis?
 

blue4

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blue4
The question that hasn't been raised about the minority interest that Davis said he would sell to stay in Oakland, What if some local St Louis buyer put's up 400 million, would he move to St Louis?

That's certainly a scenario that would bring enormous pressure on Davis to help solve what's going on.
 

dbrooks25

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Sep 2, 2014
Messages
1,119
I think you're looking at the word need the wrong way. Do they need Los Angeles to avoid folding as a league? Of course not, they've not only survived without LA, they've thrived. However they set high goals for their annual revenue, 25 billion by 2027 to be exact, and currently well behind on their projections to achieve that goal. So in that sense, do they need LA? Yeah they probably do to meet that goal.

Think about it this way, if I make $100,000 a year do I need $500,000 per year? Of course I don't in terms of survival. But if I plan on retiring at 40 years old to live comfortably on a tropical island I do. Is it greed? Yeah, but if my goal is to do that, and I see a way to make it happens, why wouldn't I?



I don't think they awarded it over St Louis, St Louis doesn't even have a venue yet. I think they wanted to take a look as the prospect, and if there was a venue to play there they'd probably do it. Right now that doesn't exist, so they can't award one.
I was thinking the same thing as far as the MLS goes. Imo, they didn't award a team to any city (LA wasn't the only one, btw) over St. Louis as they don't even have a venue to house them at the moment. True, they are expanding in 2020, but they evidently wanted to award the teams now and how can you give St. Louis a team without knowing for certain that the Riverfront stadium will be built?
 

RamBill

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8,874
NFL owners maintain strength by sticking together
By John Clayton
ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...ticking-together-keeps-strong-clayton-mailbag


Last week's NFL owners meetings provided a reminder of the power of ownership in this sport.

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft came to San Francisco steaming about the penalties imposed on his team for Deflategate. He considered suing the league. He had his lawyers create a website to challenge every item in the Wells report, which the NFL used as a basis for the punishment meted out to the Patriots and quarterback Tom Brady. But being around the owners changed Kraft's tone.

He probably realized the owners he would be fighting in court were the ones who voted him into the league as an owner when he bought the Patriots 21 years ago. He probably spent a few minutes talking to Jerry Jones, whose Dallas Cowboys lost a total of $10 million of valuable cap room in 2012 and '13 for somehow violating the salary cap in an uncapped year.

Kraft decided not to appeal the Patriots' penalty of a $1 million fine and the loss of two draft picks.

The race for getting two NFL franchises into Los Angeles is starting to look like another example of how NFL owners operate. Most reporters came to San Francisco thinking Stan Kroenke held all the cards in building a stadium in Inglewood and then moving the Rams out of St. Louis.

One image adjusted that notion. On Monday night, reporters spotted Chargers owner Alex Spanos and Raiders owner Mark Davis having dinner with several owners who are on the relocation committee. High-level NFL execs were also at the table.

That informal meeting could set the stage for the Chargers and Raiders to move to a proposed stadium in Carson. As Kraft likely reminded himself, often the league sets itself above the individual desires of an owner or a franchise. If the Carson plan has strong support from NFL owners, it will happen.

It's too early to handicap how the Los Angeles project will unfold. Spanos made it clear he wants to exhaust every effort for the city of San Diego to present a stadium proposal his family can accept. Unfortunately, the offer made by the city last week most likely falls short. While San Diego officials were making their pitch, Carson was closing on a land purchase for a two-team stadium.


There won't be three teams in Los Angeles next year, because the NFL is going to give partial funding only for two teams in one stadium.

A Raiders/Chargers move to Carson gained plenty of momentum last week. Power-broking owners like the idea of helping Spanos and Davis if they can't get stadium deals to stay where they are. While they aren't totally against Kroenke, they recognize he is operating more on his own than with the league, although they also realize his work has put the league in a position to get pro football back in Los Angeles.

If the Carson deal makes the most sense financially, I can see owners approving a move to Los Angeles by the Chargers and Raiders and saying no to Kroenke. If that happens, though, the league would have to make things right for the Rams. First, it would have to make sure the St. Louis offer to keep the Rams is a great deal for Kroenke.

There may be some other things the owners could do to assist Kroenke. Kroenke owns sports franchises in Denver -- the NBA's Nuggets and the NHL's Avalanche. If the Broncos ever wind up for sale -- which could become a possibility with owner Pat Bowlen battling Alzheimer's disease -- the league could broker a deal that makes Kroenke the next Broncos owner.

On the football side, the league would need to fix the divisional alignments if the Raiders and Chargers move into one stadium. For network television purposes, the league can't have to two AFC West teams in the same stadium. The Chargers or Raiders would have to move into the NFC West, and one NFC West team -- the Rams or Arizona Cardinals -- would have to switch to the AFC.

The next six months should be a study in how this fraternity of owners operates.
 

bluecoconuts

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I agree most people won't give a crap. It just seems like bad business to me to destroy the 21st market to get to the 2nd. They won't get to their goal by shedding fans to make more fans. They need to have a plan to keep the STL market. I'm not saying this as a resident, just seems like a bad idea for long term growth. These billionaire owners didn't get to be that way by torching entire markets. I realize it's kind of out of the NFLs ability to control now, but I can't imagine a outside impartial source would view the Rams and Chargers in LA, the Raiders floating broke and almost homeless, and the 21st market in flames as preferable to SD and Oakland in Carson and the Rams in a new stadium here. I do think if Carson is ready by deadline time it gives some owners pause to consider. Of course this all hinges on Carson. It also doesn't take into account the Raiders fleeing to STL in self defense. If you can get the Raiders to go, well that solves a problem in tidy way as well. People may initially dislike it, but it would produce the maximum growth for the league's future in the long term.

Depends on what you mean by ready, because they wont be ready to actually start building the stadium for a few years.

In my mind one of the biggest things that gives Kroenke an edge is his ability to give them long term security in LA. If they were to fail there again, it would be a colossal failure by the NFL. There are a lot of questions about the Raiders ability to make it work anywhere, let alone LA, and he doesn't really have the money to really put into the city. Some people seem to be under the impression that Goldman Sachs is essentially going to just give unlimited dollars to both teams and set them up forever, which isn't the case. I'm a little confused on the situation of Marc Davis and inheritance crap if his mom dies (some say he'll have issues, some say it's set up so he's okay) but if there is potentially a problem, that could be bothersome for LA.

One thing is certain, if Kroenke sinks over 2 billion dollars into putting the Rams in Inglewood, he's not going to let that market fail on his watch. He has far more means than both Spanos and Davis combined, and that could give him an edge.

We'll have to see how it shakes out, I'm still feeling that eventually it becomes Kroenke and Spanos in LA, but Spanos is probably going to make one hell of a push. Davis is just along for the ride, personally if I was an owner that would give me cause for concern if they want to stick the landing so much.
 
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