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den-the-coach

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Anywho...just one man's opinion. Take it or leave it is all...
NONE of the proposed stadiums will come in under budget, construction projects of this magnitude never do...I just think the potential for things to get more costly faster are greatest in the area with the highest cost of construction and living.

However, that point is moot because Kroenke is funding the project in Inglewood no public funds are involved so if it goes over budget Stan will have to endure the costs and I have a feeling, he's good for it and as always JMHO.
 

bluecoconuts

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He said it doesn't look like it lends itself to easy cost controls. It's about as plausible as assertions that Inglewood is a slam dunk or that the NFL isn't going to allow LA to be open anymore. The fact is that cost overruns are common and none of us have any real idea what the NFL’S views are.

Yeah, but that's like saying "That car looks like a death trap because it looks unsafe". Why? Because of faulty seatbelts? Brakes? I'm sure the cost will increase some, it usually does, but half a billion to a billion dollars more? I'm not seeing that.

Its been said over and over that they are going to get a team in LA. Unless all three owners back away, they will let someone move there. Its also been said its a slam dunk for some of the reasons I posted otherwise. Privately financed by an owner that can afford it, large beautiful stadium, part of a larger venue, etc.

why does he want good ticket sales in STL. The common consensus around seemed to be that Stan was actually trying to poison the well. Still doesn't make sense.

He might not care, but the NFL probably does. Plus if it doesn't happen, he probably wants to have some bridges left unburned.

We have heard from the jump that the Inglewood proposal would be $1.7B, privately financed (which was almost immediately proven false, but never-mind all that for now),

It is privately financed though. They're saying it's going to be about 1.8-2 billion at this point, I don't see a 25-50% increase in costs without a major design change.

Also the repayments for the infrastructure hardly counts as public financing. Typically those costs are left to the city anyway, and the repayments come from profits that the park creates.
 

Hacksaw

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bluecoconuts wrote:
"It is privately financed though. They're saying it's going to be about 1.8-2 billion at this point, I don't see a 25-50% increase in costs without a major design change.

Also the repayments for the infrastructure hardly counts as public financing. Typically those costs are left to the city anyway, and the repayments come from profits that the park creates."


^ According to Butts those profits are in the neighborhood of $25mm annually.

And no freaking way it goes over 25 to 50%. 10% is bad. I think this guy Kroenke is pretty savvy about how all this is done.
 

dbrooks25

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I just noticed that a particular member who is a regular in this thread is missing. Was he banned from this thread? We've had close to a week of harmony here outside of that Dick character.
 

bluecoconuts

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I just noticed that a particular member who is a regular in this thread is missing. Was he banned from this thread? We've had close to a week of harmony here outside of that Dick character.

I'd say there's more than one member who is a regular in this thread missing, so it's probably best to not try to rub anybody's nose in it.
 

beej

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Once in a while this thread get's the best of me and I take a break from it for a week or 2 and come back when I'm better. Maybe that's what they did.
 

RamFan503

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I am unimpressed by that Inglewood presentation, and surprisingly (at least to me) not entirely because I am an STL homer.

First off, that guy giving the presentation was GOD AWFUL...I have seen High School kids do better, in fact my 17 year old daughter is twice as good at public presentations as that guy. Really bush league to have such a schlep giving the narration and presenting. I am assuming he was NOT the guy they let talk to the NFL in NYC...
Come on man - I think you're grasping just to insult the guy. This is a pretty common PP presentation made by an architect. It's all pretty nuts and bolts and wasn't intended to be a sideshow.

Secondly, Olympics? Really? When, 2032? There will not be another USA-hosted Olympics for 50 years if Boston ends up winning the bid for 2024. A bit unbelievable to think the IOC would grant a THIRD games to L.A., but whatever...just caught me a little off guard to see the "benefits" being touted for the Inglewood stadium including an Olympics.
LA does want to bring back the Olympics and has demonstrated itself as one of the most viable cities in the world. Atlanta and Los Angeles were only 12 years apart so 50 years is only your guess.

Third, FIFA WC and Super Bowls. 1) FIFA WC is NOT coming back to the USA anytime soon and 2) Super Bowls are not exactly money makers for the host city any longer, just go ask the people of Indianapolis and Phoenix about it.
Superbowls are money makers for cities already set up for hosting such an event. Not so much for those that aren't. It's kind of like the Olympics in that respect.

Do you know the schedule for the World Cup?

Last, the design does not speak of "cost certainty" nor lend itself to easy construction cost controls. That thing has $2.5-3.0B in total costs written all over it. And that's BEFORE getting hit with another $500M in relocation fees. Kroenke would have to have some serious under the table investors and kick backs from the NFL to make that worth more than a new stadium and either a hold or sell of the Rams beyond 2020.
Can you please explain how you know this? I have been involved with many projects - both publicly funded and privately funded. The public projects definitely have had huge cost over runs with multiple change orders and design changes. Even design/build projects on the public level get approved for change orders which is seldom the case with private projects. Being that Kroenke is a developer by profession, I think I'd take his projections well ahead of either a city's or someone posting on the internet. And if the project runs over, how does that affect anything? You really think he would shut down the project for over runs?

If the St Louis stadium has over runs like Atl and Minn, who pays for that?

If the NFL actually abandons the St. Louis market for THAT...and simultaneously hamstrings Oakland and San Diego in the process, the aftershocks will rattle the league to its core. I know I am a homer, but I simply don't see that Inglewood proposal as being anywhere NEAR overwhelming or a slam dunk...more like a missed dunk off the rim hoping for a follow up or a foul call.
Nothing wrong with being a homer. I do think it is blocking your ability to be rational in this case but WTH.

But man they are promising the moon. That guy said that on saturday dad's can play football on the field with their son??? He said it will be open all day everyday to go in and just sit??? Is he high, or does he just like how graffiti looks on the fifty yard line.
maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
Safeco field in Seattle is open to the public for the most part. Obviously you can't go on the field without permission but you can walk down the aisles during the day and also a lot of the food and beer vendors are open on nice days or football weekends. I could see how they would let fans onto the field and in the concourses during the day or during certain weekends or by permission if you checked in. I actually think you will see more of this. Open malls, plazas, and civic centers are becoming far more the norm.

We have heard from the jump that the Inglewood proposal would be $1.7B, privately financed (which was almost immediately proven false, but never-mind all that for now),
Explain how you think this has been proven false. Are you saying that because Stan is building everything with private funds, the city should reap all the inherent revenues? Are you saying that the city making $25 million that they won't have without this project is somehow using public funds because they won't be making the full $44 million? Is there a city out there that wouldn't jump at making $25 million a year with ZERO investment of tax dollars? Just how do you consider any of the Inglewood project publicly funded?

Everything in California costs more to build than it does in Missouri as a comparable. Maybe Stan's boondoggle stadium would cost $1.7B in Missouri, but I just don't think that is a realistic projection in L.A.
Actually it doesn't. Similar projects in Oregon, for example, cost more to build than in CA. Oddly, our labor and materials costs are far higher. The property in CA is far more expensive and houses sell for far more but construction costs are not higher than most of the country.

If the first number presented is $1.7 B, then I don't think speculating on overruns of 30% is too crazy...maybe the $3.0 B top end as a worst case IS a bit high, but 30% overrun is about $2.25 B.
You may not think it's crazy but for a privately funded venture - that's crazy.

NONE of the proposed stadiums will come in under budget, construction projects of this magnitude never do...I just think the potential for things to get more costly faster are greatest in the area with the highest cost of construction and living.
Not sure how cost of living really affects this project and potential over runs unless they are bringing in outside contractors - which apparently they are not. And I have much less of a problem with privately funded projects going over budget than public projects. If what you say is correct, you are assuming the St Louis stadium will go over budget. What is your projection on that?

As to the costs of making the project earthquake "proof" (if you will) being able to sink the stadium into the ground (not fill but native earth) actually helps its earthquake stability. From my understanding it is often far cheaper to dig than erect. Yes I said erect.
 

beej

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Safeco field in Seattle is open to the public for the most part. Obviously you can't go on the field without permission but you can walk down the aisles during the day and also a lot of the food and beer vendors are open on nice days or football weekends. I could see how they would let fans onto the field and in the concourses during the day or during certain weekends or by permission if you checked in. I actually think you will see more of this. Open malls, plazas, and civic centers are becoming far more the norm.
WOW! I did NOT know that! I'm surprised that works.

that seems like an open invitation to not only vandalism, but terrorism. Are you sure about that?
 

RamFan503

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WOW! I did NOT know that! I'm surprised that works.

that seems like an open invitation to not only vandalism, but terrorism. Are you sure about that?
They have security and they close it well before dark. I don't know if they do it all the time but the last several times I have been up there, I was able to walk in, have a beer, and just kinda mill around. Someone told me that if you made arrangements, you could go down onto the field. Not sure if that is true or not.
 

ramfaninsd

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why does he want good ticket sales in STL. The common consensus around seemed to be that Stan was actually trying to poison the well. Still doesn't make sense.
i think the well got poisoned by the nfl when they lifted the blackouts, single game tickets mostly will be down substantially.
 

bluecoconuts

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i think the well got poisoned by the nfl when they lifted the blackouts, single game tickets mostly will be down substantially.

Ticket prices are down for sure, there was a Forbes article that said of the 8 home games only two are above their normal sale price on secondary markets (stubhub, etc), the rest are below. It'll be interesting to see if the cheaper cost will help drive up tickets sold.
 

Moostache

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Come on man - I think you're grasping just to insult the guy. This is a pretty common PP presentation made by an architect. It's all pretty nuts and bolts and wasn't intended to be a sideshow.
OK...fair enough. Content was not the criticism, delivery and capability were, and criticism is not the same as insulting. If I called the guy ugly or mean, or impugned his character as being dishonest...THAT would be insulting! To say that, in my opinion, his presentation skills were found lacking is just an observation and wasn't meant to be personally unpleasant.

LA does want to bring back the Olympics and has demonstrated itself as one of the most viable cities in the world. Atlanta and Los Angeles were only 12 years apart so 50 years is only your guess.
You're right that its a guess, but it is based on the 52 years between the 1932 LA games and the 1984 LA games, not the fact that the '96 games were so close to the '84 games in the USA. Maybe the IOC would consider LA for the 2028 or 2032 games, but given the fact that they actually allowed the centennial games to take place in Atlanta and the 2000 games to go to Sydney before returning to Athens in '04, I'd say sentimentality for anniversary dates is not high on the list of considerations.

Do you know the schedule for the World Cup?
The WC has been awarded through Russia 2018 and Qatar 2022; but I am not familiar with the 2026 or 2032 bidding process. The USA hosted in '94 and there are a lot of people hoping to bring it back here again, but with the Rose Bowl already a former WC Final host stadium available, how exactly does a new stadium with no natural grass proposed help that effort? The Dallas stadium doesn't...the New York stadium does not either. FIFA forbids matches on artificial turf in the Cup finals, so the World Cup and Olympics are possible sure...but are they likely or are they real pluses for the Inglewood project? That is debatable at best.

Explain how you think this has been proven false. Are you saying that because Stan is building everything with private funds, the city should reap all the inherent revenues? Are you saying that the city making $25 million that they won't have without this project is somehow using public funds because they won't be making the full $44 million? Is there a city out there that wouldn't jump at making $25 million a year with ZERO investment of tax dollars? Just how do you consider any of the Inglewood project publicly funded?

My opinion was based on hearing - line deleted - and Stockbridge would be reimbursed for ~$100M in infrastructure improvements by Inglewood, which is not exactly utilizing 100% private funds. Even if those funds are only available because of the stadium in the first place, the fact that they go back to the private investors who built the stadium immediately lowers the public's take and is a de facto tax or kick back, however you want to label it.

Point being, there are different interpretations of the way to define "public money". You may feel that means only tax dollars directly raised and specifically assigned to the project or you could take a wider view that things like PSLs or tax abatements are in fact forms of public money. By the narrowest definitions, you can view it one way and by different definitions it can be seen as something else...PoTAYtoes, PaTAToes.

Can you please explain how you know this? I have been involved with many projects - both publicly funded and privately funded. The public projects definitely have had huge cost over runs with multiple change orders and design changes.
You may not think it's crazy but for a privately funded venture - that's crazy.
What can I say? I grew up outside of Chicago and all I know about large building projects is scandal, cost over-runs and indictments for illegal greasing of palms...LOL! I am no building project manager or real estate developer...if you want to know how to purify useful enzymes and antibiotics for use in treating resistant bacterial infections or studying reactions in the metabolic pathway, I can opine with more experience.

Not sure how cost of living really affects this project and potential over runs unless they are bringing in outside contractors - which apparently they are not. And I have much less of a problem with privately funded projects going over budget than public projects. If what you say is correct, you are assuming the St Louis stadium will go over budget. What is your projection on that?
As stated, I have no expertise in building, construction or cost over-runs, and you already called that out three separate times in the replies...why would you want me to again blindly speculate on the same issue relative to the St. Louis proposal? If I had to guess, I would say that project easily sails past the $1B mark as well - and gets into the $1.15-1.25B range before all is said and done, but its a guess.


Sheesh....that took way too much effort. :sleep:
I can't reply to that many questions consistently...it would take all day!:p
 
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blue4

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Yeah, but that's like saying "That car looks like a death trap because it looks unsafe". Why? Because of faulty seatbelts? Brakes? I'm sure the cost will increase some, it usually does, but half a billion to a billion dollars more? I'm not seeing that.

Its been said over and over that they are going to get a team in LA. Unless all three owners back away, they will let someone move there. Its also been said its a slam dunk for some of the reasons I posted otherwise. Privately financed by an owner that can afford it, large beautiful stadium, part of a larger venue, etc.



He might not care, but the NFL probably does. Plus if it doesn't happen, he probably wants to have some bridges left unburned.



It is privately financed though. They're saying it's going to be about 1.8-2 billion at this point, I don't see a 25-50% increase in costs without a major design change.

Also the repayments for the infrastructure hardly counts as public financing. Typically those costs are left to the city anyway, and the repayments come from profits that the park creates.

But essentially that's what was contained in your response as well. Conjecture. He thinks his is obvious reasoning and so do you. From where I sit you're both throwing darts, IMO.
 

bluecoconuts

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But essentially that's what was contained in your response as well. Conjecture. He thinks his is obvious reasoning and so do you. From where I sit you're both throwing darts, IMO.

How do you figure? Most of what I get is from different reporters, the NFL, etc. He threw out a large number without support, and I asked what made him come to that conclusion.

There's a distinct difference in saying "I think A because X, Y, Z, and as you can see these are legitimate issues."

And "I think A because I don't want the project to happen."

If there was reasonable information to support a 25-50+% increase in cost, then I would say its a valid concern, but if there's not then there's no reason why I should be forced to not inquire about the reasoning.
 

rams2050

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http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...ces-Efforts-to-Keep-Rams-NFL-in-St-Louis.aspx

By Shane Gray @STL-Rams

As most are aware by now, the St. Louis Stadium Task Force made their first presentation before the NFL's six owner Committee on L.A. Stadium Opportunities last week at league headquarters. By all indications, their efforts in New York were very well received. The Task Force came away from the aforementioned meeting feeling encouraged to continue upon the path they have traveled thus far. In short, things went well in regard to their quest to keep the Rams/NFL in town. Of course, the efforts being made to retain the Rams and the NFL's presence in the region are far from complete. There remains much work to be done before success is secured. With that said, I want to share a few things related to the above that are important to consider as the Task Force continues forging forward.

Public Funding Prospects Promising

According to multiple well-placed sources, the eventual realization of public funding needed from the city and state to make the proposed riverfront stadium project a reality looks very promising. That, of course, does not equate to a guarantee from those cited, but is nonetheless important to note due to the obvious fact that the still-theoretic downtown development is unlikely to come to fruition without these public financing streams being solidified.

Financing and Land Acquisition Just Two Pieces of Puzzle

There has been some thinking and speculation that only two boxes remain that the Task Force must successfully check off to secure the NFL's future here: the acquisition of the remainder of the land needed to build upon and the garnering of public funding required for the stadium project. That, however, is not quite the case. While those two things are vitally important, they are not the only things needed to seal the deal and nail down pro football's future in the Gateway City. Beyond the attainment of the necessitated real estate and public resources, the Task Force must reach agreements on the splits of such things as parking fees, revenues from events like concerts and soccer matches, leasing costs due from the team and naming rights. In addition, nearly 90 percent of the land around the proposed venue is vacant. Will the city ultimately choose to give Kroenke access to some of that dirt to sweeten the offer? In the end, there is much to navigate beyond simply reaching an agreement on who pays how much for the venue. The nuts and bolts of the setup of the lease are extremely significant. The breakdown of all the smaller line items will be important considerations to the team and/or league in evaluating the entirety of the plan. Furthermore, market study results from St. Louis, San Diego, Oakland, Inglewood and Carson could also prove impactful.

League Wants Task Force and Teams to Remain Tight-Lipped

Have you wondered why intricate details from the Task Force's presentation at NFL Headquarters have been so hard to come by? Or, for that matter, why the specifics from the Carson or Inglewood showings have been so few and far between? Quite simply, the league has intentionally kept those details closely guarded and under wraps. Among other things, this points to the fact that the NFL will indeed maintain great control of the separate stadium situations and the overall relocation process.

Dissecting Demoff

There have been mixed reactions from fans and media who took in any or all of the interviews that St. Louis Rams Vice President of Football Operations and Chief Operating Officer Kevin Demoff took part in on the local airwaves in recent days -- such as this one with Tim McKernan and The Morning After on InsideSTL/CBS Sports 920. From the totality of his interviews, most would admit that there were several things stated that folks could take as a positive in relation to the Rams prospective future here, as well as some potential negatives that were shared. At this point, however, Demoff can and will say only so much -- regardless of how frustrating that can be to fans, media and all interested parties alike. Even though most wish that he could or would share more, the reality is that there is little long-term gain to be realized by being overly specific in regard to any inquiries sent his way regarding the stadium situation. For one, there is much for the Rams to still hold out for if they ultimately are to end up in St. Louis -- as touched on in the land and financing section above -- that goes beyond simply locking up public funding sources. Two, if they indeed hold real plans to attempt to move, this certainly is not the time to clarify those intentions. First, three-fourths approval from the league's owners is not a given when considering all potential factors, roadblocks and scenarios involved. Second, the team is in St. Louis in 2015 and their are tickets and the like to still be sold here. Demoff is in an unenviable spot. On one hand, he must attempt to market the Rams in St. Louis and ease the minds of a generally skeptical and worried fanbase. On another, he must support an employer who is constructing plans for a stadium in L.A. that could house the Rams there. If that were not enough to juggle, he is being asked to provide specific feedback to the Task Force for stadium efforts that could ultimately help result in the Rams being unapproved to move to Inglewood if the organization does eventually apply for relocation. In addition, as stated above in another section, the NFL desires that fine details from the stadium updates last week be kept confidential so there is only so much that can be said right now. So, for a variety of reasons, there is only so much that Demoff can or will express in the near future.

Related: Kevin Demoff Talks Rams' Future, St. Louis Stadium Situation (4/24)

Parsing Peacock

As with Demoff, there was only so much that Stadium Task Force co-head Dave Peacock could reveal following its presentation at the league's offices. While Peacock could not go into any real specifics while making the media rounds, he did reiterate that retaining the Rams is the Task Force's focus. In addition, Peacock told Frank Cusumano here that the progress that has been made by #STLNFL has been greater to this point than he would have anticipated. Furthermore, Peacock again made it clear that it is important to make a strong showing at the gate this fall to make a good impression upon the league. He also suggested -- assuming all public funding streams are eventually formalized -- "100 percent confidence" that St. Louis will remain an NFL city during a portion of an interview with another St. Louis sports radio outlet. Finally, among other things, Peacock recapitulated confidence in the NFL's bylaws and the league's willingness to enforce them.

Related: Dave Peacock Talks St. Louis Stadium Presentation to NFL, Project's Progress

Commissioner Comments

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell -- while speaking to Associated Press Sports Editors -- shared very positive sentiments regarding all three of the updates shared in New York: those from the Task Force, those from the Inglewood group and those from the Carson backers. Specifically related to St. Louis, Goodell said that the headway made to date has been "exciting", that the path the Task Force is on is "very positive" and that there are good signs related to funding sources, design plan and the stadium site. According to Tom Moore of L.A. News Group and this tweet , Goodell is "significantly more bullish" on St. Louis keeping their team from moving to L.A. than he is in regard to San Diego keeping the Chargers. In a separate tweet , Moore reports that Goodell deemed the progress of the San Diego Task Force as being "slow."

Scheduling Scandal?

There has been much tea leaf reading and unfounded speculation surrounding the Rams schedule and the fact that they are closing out the season with back to back road matchups. However, those rumors and conspiracy theories were proven baseless when it was revealed that the club is wrapping up the season away from home due to a scheduling conflict with the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Convention. Historically, this is not the first time that the CVC's plans have impacted the Rams slate. For example, St. Louis endured a three game road trek last season due to similar circumstances.

Closing Comments

As was the case two ago and is still the case today, things are far from decided in regard to the Rams future and the outcome of the NFL in L.A. As Peacock has stated, St. Louis is in position largely control their own destiny in relation to the NFL. And if St. Louis eventually hammers down their portion of a strong stadium deal, the chances are exceptionally high that pro football remains beneath the Gateway Arch in a football stadium worthy of sitting in the shadows of one of the world's most iconic monuments. And the team residing there? More than likely, the Rams will be that team if St. Louis and Missouri take care of business. In general, it is easier, simpler and less expensive for all involved to retain a team rather than trying to reel in another one. The league does not want teams criss-crossing the county. The league has ways beyond their own bylaws to further resist that sort of thing from occurring. And as of right now, St. Louis is the only home market to be progressing rapidly towards a positive resolution. With the Chargers and Raiders having sought facility solutions for a much longer timeframe than the Rams and with neither looking anywhere close to reaching new stadium deals at home, it makes much more sense to approve them to move to a new two-team stadium within their home state than it does to allow a franchise located halfway across the country who will likely be equipped with a strong local stadium deal to be green lighted to move and create completely unnecessary relocation chaos.

There are a number of scenarios in place where the Rams remain if and when St. Louis gets things done. There are no guarantees, of course, that it would be the Rams taking up residence in a state of the art riverside stadium. As I have written for over two years and continue to repeat, the Rams are indeed viable moving threats. On the other hand, there are a variety of legitimate scenarios abounding that could result in the Rams taking up roots in the Show-Me State. In short, there are any number of scenarios at play. Peacock mentioned "500 permutations" that could be viable. There is no question whatsoever that the complex process of deciding who stays where and who goes where has a ways to go. As for the Rams' specific long-term future, one thing we know for certain this: both those who say with 100 percent certainty that the Rams are leaving and those who say with 100 percent certainty that the Rams are staying are woefully off base. Both are patently false at this stage of the proceedings.
 
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RamFan503

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If I called the guy ugly or mean, or impugned his character as being dishonest...THAT would be insulting! To say that, in my opinion, his presentation skills were found lacking is just an observation and wasn't meant to be personally unpleasant.
First off, that guy giving the presentation was GOD AWFUL...I have seen High School kids do better, in fact my 17 year old daughter is twice as good at public presentations as that guy. Really bush league to have such a schlep giving the...
So this is you NOT insulting someone.... got it. o_O

My opinion was based on hearing - line deleted - and Stockbridge would be reimbursed for ~$100M in infrastructure improvements by Inglewood, which is not exactly utilizing 100% private funds. Even if those funds are only available because of the stadium in the first place, the fact that they go back to the private investors who built the stadium immediately lowers the public's take and is a de facto tax or kick back, however you want to label it.

Point being, there are different interpretations of the way to define "public money". You may feel that means only tax dollars directly raised and specifically assigned to the project or you could take a wider view that things like PSLs or tax abatements are in fact forms of public money. By the narrowest definitions, you can view it one way and by different definitions it can be seen as something else...PoTAYtoes, PaTAToes.
First off - I don't care what you think of anyone in these dealings, the part I deleted simply isn't going to fly here.

Now to the point, I'm not sure where you are getting the $100 million figure. The # is actually likely to be higher if you are talking about the excess revenue projections. The city will be collecting what has been deemed to be excess funds well above expenditures. I believe the way it was projected was that the city would collect an estimated $44 million. Of that, they would keep 10% above the cost of services provided by the city - estimated at $25 million per year. The remaining $19 million per year was due to be returned to the developers to pay for infrastructure improvements. I don't recall there being a sunset so the figure being returned to the developers would likely go well beyond $100 million.

I suppose if you want to consider that money public funds then that is your own definition. Are the developers due to get a reimbursement for providing infrastructure to areas that are owned by the pubic? Sure. Are they being reimbursed for building anything that they own? No. The city is getting some pretty substantial infrastructure improvements at no cost. Most of the infrastructure improvements are needed due to the stadium itself but the revenues brought in by the stadium far exceed the cost of maintaining the infrastructure that will be handed over to the city. Therefore the costs for building roads, sewer, water, etc. will be rebated back out of excess tax revenue.

Bottom line. Is the city out any money because a stadium is being built? Nope. Do they have to go to the public for a tax increase? Nope. Are they asking the hoteliers to collect money for them from tourism dollars? Nope. Is the city directly benefiting from the stadium being built? Big time.

And how are PSLs public money? If they are then any ticket would be.

It's fine if you want to see it different but saying the Inglewood project is being financed with public money because a portion of the excess revenues are being returned to the developers is a bit of a reach.

St Louis is trying to demonstrate how the stadium will pay for itself through increased revenue and prestige while the city of Inglewood will receive a direct influx of cash in ADDITION to many of the same revenues the city of St Louis and state of MO is banking on to make the public funding aspect pencil out.

What can I say? I grew up outside of Chicago and all I know about large building projects is scandal, cost over-runs and indictments for illegal greasing of palms...LOL! I am no building project manager or real estate developer...if you want to know how to purify useful enzymes and antibiotics for use in treating resistant bacterial infections or studying reactions in the metabolic pathway, I can opine with more experience.

I'll have to keep that in mind.

As stated, I have no expertise in building, construction or cost over-runs, and you already called that out three separate times in the replies...why would you want me to again blindly speculate on the same issue relative to the St. Louis proposal? If I had to guess, I would say that project easily sails past the $1B mark as well - and gets into the $1.15-1.25B range before all is said and done, but its a guess.

I would agree that there will at least be some over runs in the St Louis project. It really does beg the question - who pays for that? The public - I would assume because Stan wouldn't be the developer OR stadium owner in this case.

Don't get me wrong in all this. I still think that keeping the Rams in St Louis is ultimately in the best interest of St Louis and its businesses and citizens. I think it would be short sighted of them to let it go at this point. All in all the city comes out ahead in this whole thing if they can get it all together.
 

RamFan503

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Financing and Land Acquisition Just Two Pieces of Puzzle

There has been some thinking and speculation that only two boxes remain that the Task Force must successfully check off to secure the NFL's future here: the acquisition of the remainder of the land needed to build upon and the garnering of public funding required for the stadium project. That, however, is not quite the case. While those two things are vitally important, they are not the only things needed to seal the deal and nail down pro football's future in the Gateway City. Beyond the attainment of the necessitated real estate and public resources, the Task Force must reach agreements on the splits of such things as parking fees, revenues from events like concerts and soccer matches, leasing costs due from the team and naming rights. In addition, nearly 90 percent of the land around the proposed venue is vacant. Will the city ultimately choose to give Kroenke access to some of that dirt to sweeten the offer? In the end, there is much to navigate beyond simply reaching an agreement on who pays how much for the venue. The nuts and bolts of the setup of the lease are extremely significant. The breakdown of all the smaller line items will be important considerations to the team and/or league in evaluating the entirety of the plan. Furthermore, market study results from St. Louis, San Diego, Oakland, Inglewood and Carson could also prove impactful.
I wonder how much of this has been discussed between the two parties. I also wonder if this was any part of the presentation in NY.
 

bluecoconuts

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I wonder how much of this has been discussed between the two parties. I also wonder if this was any part of the presentation in NY.

I thought someone mentioned in an article not that long ago they haven't discussed this yet. Wouldn't shock me to see them put it off until the last minute, and Stan may try to throw a wrench or two in if he's looking to make them stumble.
 

RamFan503

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I thought someone mentioned in an article not that long ago they haven't discussed this yet. Wouldn't shock me to see them put it off until the last minute, and Stan may try to throw a wrench or two in if he's looking to make them stumble.
Seems like a pretty dang important aspect of the project. Wouldn't this tell the city/state how much in revenues they are going to be dealing with? Not sure how you factor spending and ROI without knowing how much of the revenue pie you will be receiving.
 
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