Never Again....

[DaveFan'51]

Boy, do they need a win!

If for no other reason, because I don't want us to start the season 0-4 at Home!!

 

[dieterbrock]

Don't agree with that, how many first rounders and draft picks have they had and we still go 1-4 in our "breakout year"

Exactly the point. What team has its "breakout year" built on a roster of primarily 1st and 2nd year players?

 

[Rmfnlt]

If for no other reason, because I don't want us to start the season 0-4 at Home!!

The fan base needs a win badly.

Just look at the tone of this board, which is one of the most resilient I have ever seen.

If they get blown out by Seattle? I don't want to be near a computer Sunday night or Monday morning.

 

[DaveFan'51]

The fan base needs a win badly.

Just look at the tone of this board, which is one of the most resilient I have ever seen.

If they get blown out by Seattle? I don't want to be near a computer Sunday night or Monday morning.

Agreed, It will look something like this....

 

[theramsruleUK]

Exactly the point. What team has its "breakout year" built on a roster of primarily 1st and 2nd year players?

Which is why free agency is key also

 

[AZRamsFan93]

That will take some time but take heart time will pass and all this young talent will blossom together and when it does we will be fully vested in the new rookie salary structure ( sometimes I wish we'd taken 6 2nd rounders and a first for RG ) and JMO our draft this year is one of "those" people will look back on and say that's where the championships came from.

I hope you are correct. I worry about the rookie contracts expiring at about the same time these youngsters start to contribute. They won't be able to re-sign them all. The Rams will be the farm team for other franchises to harvest.

 

[Thordaddy]

I hope you are correct. I worry about the rookie contracts expiring at about the same time these youngsters start to contribute. They won't be able to re-sign them all. The Rams will be the farm team for other franchises to harvest.

I think we'll lock the ones we want up ,but I also think it's not going to be terribly long before the coming of age occurs ,but then like all teams that succeed our roster will get raided , that IMO is where an owner like Kroenke who will spend money on scouting is such an asset, Martz was promised more scouting expenditure but never got it ,leading to not just many of his drafting "busts" but doubtless some of those of his successors .

 

[RamFan503]

I hope you are correct. I worry about the rookie contracts expiring at about the same time these youngsters start to contribute. They won't be able to re-sign them all. The Rams will be the farm team for other franchises to harvest.

I think this team is being re-built following the model of several successful teams where we build through the draft and then sign a few key FAs. You will always lose some of those players you drafted but you lock up the key players. As long as we can keep a decent core, we should have a cohesive group and team leaders. I can dig this direction and I also would like to see the coaching carousel stop. How has THAT worked out for us?

 

[Fatbot]

That is why I don't like developmental picks. Some don't develop until their rookie contract is up and then if they finally become good the team risks losing them to someone else. ...Of all the players on the D Dunbar is one of, if not the best leader when it comes to making big plays or motivating with a big hit etc.

I 100% agree with your thoughts on developmental picks and needing vet leadership, but you lost me on Dunbar. He looks so slow out there that it's reminiscent of the 'Spoon debacle. His leadership resume includes being arrested in the offseason and completely flat-lining in his talent after busted for PEDs. The Rams could do a lot better.

 

[Fatbot]

The longer I am a Rams fan and the more my optimism gets beaten down, the more I lean toward not buying into the hype any more ... Seattle coming to town, probably pizzed off that they got embarrassed by Dallas isn't making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

The whole fact it's almost a must-win for Seattle helps the Rams. This is the classic type of game the Rams we've seen over the past few seasons would win, when everyone has counted them out.

 

[Boffo97]

I find these posts sad. People just fail to realize what it takes to rebuild an entire team. This team was worse off than any expansion team.
You cant cook an nfl team in microwave.
If anything ,we were all guilty of too high expectations thanks to the relative success of Fisher first 2 years.
NFL is entertainment, its best served to keep that in mind.

I vehemently disagree with this. The only reason Fisher came here in the first place is that we had pieces, particularly Bradford (although that's kind of fallen apart on us.)

The way I see it, Fisher got a 7-9 team (ignoring an injury decimated year) and kept them a 7-9 team.

 

[dieterbrock]

I vehemently disagree with this. The only reason Fisher came here in the first place is that we had pieces, particularly Bradford (although that's kind of fallen apart on us.)

The way I see it, Fisher got a 7-9 team (ignoring an injury decimated year) and kept them a 7-9 team.

They turned over the roster to the tune of 65-70% in Fisher's first year
Fisher came to St Louis because a) they paid him a ton b) he's had basic control of player decisions and basically picked the GM
The "pieces" he had to work with? Bradford? out. C Long? out. Saffold, almost gone. Quinn? Having awful year. Laurenitis? Mediocre player. Kendricks? having poor year.
He inherited a 2-14 team that was up against the cap.
He did not inherit a 7-9 team

 

[Thordaddy]

I vehemently disagree with this. The only reason Fisher came here in the first place is that we had pieces, particularly Bradford (although that's kind of fallen apart on us.)

The way I see it, Fisher got a 7-9 team (ignoring an injury decimated year) and kept them a 7-9 team.

With a whole bunch of different players averaging in age around 6 years younger,and continuing to get younger,old team 7-9 no future young team 7-9 future I pick the later,but you knew that

 

[Rmfnlt]

I vehemently disagree with this. The only reason Fisher came here in the first place is that we had pieces, particularly Bradford (although that's kind of fallen apart on us.)

The way I see it, Fisher got a 7-9 team (ignoring an injury decimated year) and kept them a 7-9 team.

I agree.

The way I see it over the last decade:
1] The picks while Martz was HC were horrible.
2] The picks while Linehan was HC were (if you can believe it) even worse - 2006 was epic horrible
3] The picks while Spagnuolo was HC were still bad, but they found a few nuggets... or at least Fisher thought they were nuggets (meaning they are still on the team and some remain starters):
Bradford
Pettis
Kendricks
Saffold
Long
Quinn
Laurinaitis
Sims
4] The picks while Fisher is HC is still unfolding

But to say Fisher had little to work with is, to me, not accurate. He wasn't given a lot, but he was given a heck of a lot more than Spagnuolo and Devaney inherited.

Fisher and Snead built this team in their own image. So far, results are mixed and they find themselves at a critical part of their third year, facing some really tough opponents in the next 6 games.

If ever there was a time for their efforts to pay off, it's now!

Go Rams!

 

[Rmfnlt]

They turned over the roster to the tune of 65-70% in Fisher's first year
Fisher came to St Louis because a) they paid him a ton b) he's had basic control of player decisions and basically picked the GM
The "pieces" he had to work with? Bradford? out. C Long? out. Saffold, almost gone. Quinn? Having awful year. Laurenitis? Mediocre player. Kendricks? having poor year.
He inherited a 2-14 team that was up against the cap.
He did not inherit a 7-9 team

Boffo is correct in saying Bradford was a huge reason why Fisher took the job.

There are countless quotes from Fisher saying just that. Fisher stood by him this entire off season.

Regarding your analysis, I don't think it's fair to bring injuries into this as proof that those players weren't what Fisher wanted.

Sure, they are inujred now, but they have been important contributors to Fisher's teams since he got here.

Just doesn't seem fair is all.

 

[Thordaddy]

Exactly the point. What team has its "breakout year" built on a roster of primarily 1st and 2nd year players?

Yeah it's usually a team with 10 or more 4,5,6 year players one or two rookies and some grey beards not very often a team starting four rookies or more with the same number of second year players and third year as well ,but if Sam hadn't gotten hurt i do believe the new and improved wr bunch would be absolutely lighting it up and we'd be on our way and might be defying historical precedent.

 

[Thordaddy]

Boffo is correct in saying Bradford was a huge reason why Fisher took the job.

There are countless quotes from Fisher saying just that. Fisher stood by him this entire off season.

Regarding your analysis, I don't think it's fair to bring injuries into this as proof that those players weren't what Fisher wanted.

Sure, they are inujred now, but they have been important contributors to Fisher's teams since he got here.

Just doesn't seem fair is all.

Well yes he did say Sam was a big factor ,but I think your timetable is a bit influenced by past ownership and the expectations of some other impatient owners .
Fisher was given a five year deal ,an extra year so he could invest so heavily in youth and would be going into his renewal year in year four instead of three, of course he and Snead aimed for yr. three and I think but for losing Sam again for the season last year would have been better than 7-9 and this year would be better than it is despite the defensive woes.

 

[dieterbrock]

But to say Fisher had little to work with is, to me, not accurate. He wasn't given a lot, but he was given a heck of a lot more than Spagnuolo and Devaney inherited.

Spags inherited the team and the #2 pick along with
Pro Bowl RB Steven Jackson
2 time Pro Bowl QB Marc Bulger
Donnie Avery (still in league)
Chris Long
OJ Otogwe
Leonard Little
Will Witherspoon

Certainly on par with what Fisher got. However that team went from 2 wins down to 1, and the players on that roster were terrible picks.

It started with Linehan era, he inherited plenty of talent and didnt bring in squat other than Long

 

[thirteen28]

They turned over the roster to the tune of 65-70% in Fisher's first year
Fisher came to St Louis because a) they paid him a ton b) he's had basic control of player decisions and basically picked the GM
The "pieces" he had to work with? Bradford? out. C Long? out. Saffold, almost gone. Quinn? Having awful year. Laurenitis? Mediocre player. Kendricks? having poor year.
He inherited a 2-14 team that was up against the cap.
He did not inherit a 7-9 team

I wouldn't use the currently injured players to make your case, but I do think your point about the horrifically bad team that Fisher inherited is correct.

OL? Was epically bad, even without injuries, during Spags tenure, particularly the last year. Saffold (who was out much of 2011) is the only guy that remains from that unit. Our OL still isn't where I'd like it to be, but it's definitely better than it was then. We have GRob, Saffold, and Barksdale to build around for the future (gotta keep Joe this offseason).

WR? The WR corps now is light years ahead of what we had when Fisher took over. Our best WR was Danny Amendola, who was often injured. Brandon Gibson was just a guy. Austin Pettis had only one year under his belt, and we know what his upside is (although I think he's worth keeping). We had Lloyd, but weren't going to be able to keep him with our cap situation. Who else was there? Pettis is the only guy that remains from that group, and he's more a situational guy.

RB? We had Steven Jackson and ... and ... and ... ?? Jackson was winding down too, getting close to the RB sell-by date. Now we have Stacy, Cunningham, Mason, and Watts. While none of those guys are as talented as Jackson was at his peak, we still have quality and depth at this position that we haven't seen in years.

DL? Well, he did inherit two good DE's (although Spags for some reason thought it imperative to get James Hall as many reps as possible). On the other hand, who were our DT's then? I don't even remember, without looking it up. Would anyone want to go back to that group and use them to replace Donald, Brockers and Langford?

LB? We had JL and ... and ... and ... ??? Ogletree seems to be suffering some growing pains in his second season, but he still has a ton of upside, and is certainly better than any other LB not named James Laurinitis that we had on the roster then. For that matter, even Dunbar is better than those other guys, even considering he isn't what he was.

DB? Aside from the fact that this unit was so devastated by injury that their wives, siblings, children, and parents also ended up on IR, there is no question that we have much greater talent in that position now. Fletcher was our best guy, and he's in Philly. I don't think Bartell is in the league anymore, but I could be wrong. Al Harris was 76 years old. Would you want to go back to that group over Tru, JJ, and EJ? No thanks. At S, we still don't have a FS, relying on McLeod, and I'm hoping that someday Joyner can fill that role. But TJ is playing better than just about anyone we had in 2012. And my oldest dog, arthritis and all, was better than Craig Dahl.

Basically, the key pieces Fisher inherited were Bradford, CLong, JL, and Quinn. And one situational WR in Pettis. [EDIT: added Kendricks].

A 7-9 team? Maybe in the arena league or CFL. Even if you take away the injuries, that team is at best 4-12. Talent wise, that team was absolute dog-shinola, and that's why an overwhelming majority of those guys aren't here anymore, and why a significant number of them no longer collect paychecks from an NFL team.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Spags inherited the team and the #2 pick along with
Pro Bowl RB Steven Jackson
2 time Pro Bowl QB Marc Bulger
Donnie Avery (still in league)
Chris Long
OJ Otogwe
Leonard Little
Will Witherspoon

Certainly on par with what Fisher got. However that team went from 2 wins down to 1, and the players on that roster were terrible picks.

It started with Linehan era, he inherited plenty of talent and didnt bring in squat other than Long

Well, Spagnuolo did inherit those players. But, to be fair, many of them were on the downside of their careers by the time he arrived. Perhaps Long and Avery had most of their careers ahead of them.

In fact, Spagnoulo got rid of most of them, just like Fisher got rid of players. Although Fisher hung onto some leftovers until 2013:
Jackson
Amendola
Cudjo
Dahl (Craig)
Dahl (Harvey)
Fletcher
Gibson
Hull
Mikell
Smith (Shelley)
Some of these guys have gone on to become productive members of other teams. For example, Fletcher was up and down a few weeks ago for the Eagles, but I'd say he's playing at least as well as any of our cornerbacks right now.

So, I think it's fair to say both men (Spagnuolo and Fisher) cleaned house and tried/are trying to do it their way.

Spagnuolo obviously failed. We're hoping Fisher does not.

Go Rams!