My one complaint/issue with the offense

[Lesson]

I fully recognize that the O for the better part of 2 seasons has been hampered by Bradford being hurt. Kellen Clemens and Shaun Hill aren't as talented nor are as good as he is. Fine, I understand why the passing game might suffer.

But this season, however, the Rams running game seems to be lacking. This season, it's ranked 20th in YPG with 106.2 yards, 20th in yards at 1,487 yards, 19th in attempts. With 4 draft picks invested invested in RBs the past 3 seasons(Pead,DR, Stacy, Mason) as well as currently there being 3 UDFA RBs on the roster, one of which who receives significant playing time on O(Benny), I'd expect for the run game to be better than what it is right now. Could it be lagging due to offensive line personnel? Possibly. Teams stacking the box due to realizing Hill isn't really a threat? Maybe. But this is 2 seasons now when the running game has been ranked 19th and 20th in YPG. Something has to be a miss.

My point is that if Fisher says he want to have a strong running game, great. But it would sure be nice to see improvement from this season to last offensively re:the running game.

 

[Prime Time]

Two reasons:

#1 The O-line isn't consistently opening holes for the RB's.
#2 Due to the weakness at the QB position the opposing defenses don't feel threatened by the passing game therefore they stack the line to stop the running game.

Nothing wrong with our RB's that a decent QB and a strong O-line won't fix.

 

[Lesson]

Two reasons:

#1 The O-line isn't consistently opening holes for the RB's.
#2 Due to the weakness at the QB position the opposing defenses don't feel threatened by the passing game therefore they stack the line to stop the running game.

Nothing wrong with our RB's that a decent QB and a strong O-line won't fix.

I can believe the 2nd reason, but I'm not a big believer in the 1st. IMO, and this is me talking out of my ass, at least 3 or 4 of the starters on the OL have been playing average-to above average for most of the season. The 2 weakest links, IMO, are Wells and Joseph. Having them right next to each other creates a disadvantage for the running game. But having GRob and Saffold on the same side should open a lot of holes for the RBs.

 

[RamFan503]

What PT said.

Also it seems to me we used to have a problem with receivers not being able to stretch the field or get separation. Now I think our QBs scare no one. Defenses can both stack the box and dare our QB to try to go over the top. It has worked for us on occasion but is a pretty decent bet for most teams that we won't be able to consistently burn them that way. So they can play a tight zone on most plays. This seems to also free up a blitzer on far too many plays so they can blitz the gaps and get to the QB if pass otherwise they hit the gap the RB would be running through.

I also think that while the center may not have to be getting to the second level consistently, he can't be constantly blown off the ball and also have the guy next to him blown up as well and expect that many plays are going to get out of the backfield.

Talking out of the same orifice as you Lesson - just my thoughts.

 

[CoachO]

I think the scheme is fine. I think the O-Line is more than capable of being a very good run blocking unit.

I have defended Schottenheimer throughout, but if there was one major complaint I have had with him as a play caller, it would be his lack of commitment to the running game. He tends to go away from it, at the first sign of problems. For years, we watched the likes of Steven Jackson get stuffed for 1 and 2 yard gains, only to have him get his carries and eventually wear down defenses.

Be it Mason or Stacy/Cunningham, I think this team can and should have a dominant running attack, but it takes more the 18-22 carries a game to get there. If one looks at the games where this offense has been successful, and coincidentally WON games, the pass run ratio is skewed more to the running game.

Especially with no Bradford to lean on, when they have thrown the ball in excess of 30 times in a game, they don't win. The common denominator in ALL six wins was they attempted less than 30 passes in each. They lost ONE game where they threw less than 30 times, and that was in KC, and they only ran the ball 19 times that week.

Now I understand that when you are playing from behind, you tend to throw the ball more. That's not my point here. In games when they threw the ball LESS than 30 times, they are 6-1. Plus 30 attempts, and they are 0-6.

I keep seeing where some place the blame on the Offensive line. They don't consistent open holes. While on short yardage situations that may be the case when defenses are selling out to stuff them at the point of attack. But there are so many instances where they gain positive yardage on 1st down, and Schottenheimer (or the QB checks out of) and they throw the ball. Over the course of an entire game, when they commit to run the ball, they are successful. But too often, all it takes is a negative play, or a run to get stuffed, and he starts airing it out, with the results not being favorable.

 

[CGI_Ram]

As it relates to the run game; I wish we pulled the guards and pushed Mason out to the edges more frequently. He's got the gear to cause damage out there.

That said...

There is nothing wrong with runs up the middle, but it's frustrating to watch the TE motion inside pretty much telegraph it's coming.

I'll add this about our run game... I've been impressed with Mason's power. Dude doesn't shy away from a hit. I love his style of play.

 

[Selassie I]

I'm just gonna say that,,, IMHO,,, there are 3 Real Serious Issues causing this...

#3 Davin Joseph

#2 Losing Jake Long (Starting LT)

#1 Scott Wells

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

The fact that we would not DARE run the ball on 3rd and goal last week is evidence enough that our interior line is weak.

I really want someone similar to Zack Martin next year.

 

[jrry32]

I fully recognize that the O for the better part of 2 seasons has been hampered by Bradford being hurt. Kellen Clemens and Shaun Hill aren't as talented nor are as good as he is. Fine, I understand why the passing game might suffer.

But this season, however, the Rams running game seems to be lacking. This season, it's ranked 20th in YPG with 106.2 yards, 20th in yards at 1,487 yards, 19th in attempts. With 4 draft picks invested invested in RBs the past 3 seasons(Pead,DR, Stacy, Mason) as well as currently there being 3 UDFA RBs on the roster, one of which who receives significant playing time on O(Benny), I'd expect for the run game to be better than what it is right now. Could it be lagging due to offensive line personnel? Possibly. Teams stacking the box due to realizing Hill isn't really a threat? Maybe. But this is 2 seasons now when the running game has been ranked 19th and 20th in YPG. Something has to be a miss.

My point is that if Fisher says he want to have a strong running game, great. But it would sure be nice to see improvement from this season to last offensively re:the running game.

Our HBs are solid. We could upgrade. I really like Devontae Booker from Utah as a 3rd/4th round HB for us.

But a big part of is our OL is not consistently opening up holes between the tackles. A big part of that is because we are limited in what we can do with our blocking scheme due to Davin Joseph. The inconsistency of Wells next to Joseph isn't helping matters with our inside running. And Saffold doesn't have the same power this year likely due to his shoulder need surgery.

 

[Thordaddy]

I think the scheme is fine. I think the O-Line is more than capable of being a very good run blocking unit.

I have defended Schottenheimer throughout, but if there was one major complaint I have had with him as a play caller, it would be his lack of commitment to the running game. He tends to go away from it, at the first sign of problems. For years, we watched the likes of Steven Jackson get stuffed for 1 and 2 yard gains, only to have him get his carries and eventually wear down defenses.

Be it Mason or Stacy/Cunningham, I think this team can and should have a dominant running attack, but it takes more the 18-22 carries a game to get there. If one looks at the games where this offense has been successful, and coincidentally WON games, the pass run ratio is skewed more to the running game.

Especially with no Bradford to lean on, when they have thrown the ball in excess of 30 times in a game, they don't win. The common denominator in ALL six wins was they attempted less than 30 passes in each. They lost ONE game where they threw less than 30 times, and that was in KC, and they only ran the ball 19 times that week.

Now I understand that when you are playing from behind, you tend to throw the ball more. That's not my point here. In games when they threw the ball LESS than 30 times, they are 6-1. Plus 30 attempts, and they are 0-6.

I keep seeing where some place the blame on the Offensive line. They don't consistent open holes. While on short yardage situations that may be the case when defenses are selling out to stuff them at the point of attack. But there are so many instances where they gain positive yardage on 1st down, and Schottenheimer (or the QB checks out of) and they throw the ball. Over the course of an entire game, when they commit to run the ball, they are successful. But too often, all it takes is a negative play, or a run to get stuffed, and he starts airing it out, with the results not being favorable.

Yup the YPG or YPC stats aren't any more important than the number of carries , you have to stick with the run sometimes even when it's not as successful as you want it takes a cumulative toll on defenses ,the old saw that a RB gets stronger as the game goes on ,that isn't really possible ,what happens IS you break down a defense and the back learns where to beat them.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Schottenhiemer

Honestly, I don't believe that the running game is really a focal point of Schottenhiemer's offensive philosophy. When he was hired, Jets fans told me over and over again how he had to be reminded not to abandon their strong running game. And we see the same thing here.

6 yard gain. Pass. Pass. Punt.
10 yard gain. Pass. Pass. Pass. Punt.
Or just Pass. Pass. Pass. Punt.

Wouldn't want it to happen, but outside of trying to kill the clock at the end of a game, has there ever been a Run. Run. Run. Punt?

And is it just me or sometimes does it seem like when a play is working, we'll only see it maybe 2-3 times a game. But, if it's not working, we'll see it more?

I really question if they even practice / focus on running plays as vigorously as they do the passing plays, to be honest.

The Players

Sure, the Oline has to do better, but IMO, the Running Backs need to show more patience on some of those zone blocking plays. No one is going to be perfect, but over the past couple of seasons, I've seen plays where the RB slammed into the OLine/Defense hard where if they had merely had the patience/vision to wait a second, they could have possible broken a big play with a mere jump cut to the outside or opposite hole.

 

[RamFan503]

Yup the YPG or YPC stats aren't any more important than the number of carries , you have to stick with the run sometimes even when it's not as successful as you want it takes a cumulative toll on defenses ,the old saw that a RB gets stronger as the game goes on ,that isn't really possible ,what happens IS you break down a defense and the back learns where to beat them.

Yeah - I'd agree with after the first quarter. I remember personally in my little experience as a RB, I needed to feel the hits a few times before I loosened up. I felt the strongest coming into the second quarter but by the fourth, the defense had to either be worn down a bit or I wasn't going anywhere. Of course my time at RB was limited for a reason. I was replaced by better options. I was a better DB and punt returner than a RB. And I ran back kicks I think three times. That freaking hurts. Never been whacked so hard as my last time returning a kick. At least our team recovered the fumble.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Too many spots on the O-line lack strong, powerful men....Just as simple as that....

 

[LACHAMP46]

I think the scheme is fine. I think the O-Line is more than capable of being a very good run blocking unit.

I have defended Schottenheimer throughout, but if there was one major complaint I have had with him as a play caller, it would be his lack of commitment to the running game. He tends to go away from it, at the first sign of problems. For years, we watched the likes of Steven Jackson get stuffed for 1 and 2 yard gains, only to have him get his carries and eventually wear down defenses.

Be it Mason or Stacy/Cunningham, I think this team can and should have a dominant running attack, but it takes more the 18-22 carries a game to get there. If one looks at the games where this offense has been successful, and coincidentally WON games, the pass run ratio is skewed more to the running game.

Especially with no Bradford to lean on, when they have thrown the ball in excess of 30 times in a game, they don't win. The common denominator in ALL six wins was they attempted less than 30 passes in each. They lost ONE game where they threw less than 30 times, and that was in KC, and they only ran the ball 19 times that week.

Now I understand that when you are playing from behind, you tend to throw the ball more. That's not my point here. In games when they threw the ball LESS than 30 times, they are 6-1. Plus 30 attempts, and they are 0-6.

I keep seeing where some place the blame on the Offensive line. They don't consistent open holes. While on short yardage situations that may be the case when defenses are selling out to stuff them at the point of attack. But there are so many instances where they gain positive yardage on 1st down, and Schottenheimer (or the QB checks out of) and they throw the ball. Over the course of an entire game, when they commit to run the ball, they are successful. But too often, all it takes is a negative play, or a run to get stuffed, and he starts airing it out, with the results not being favorable.

this reminds me of the saying, "what comes first, the chicken or the egg?" Do we run less when the run is least successful, or, do we pass less when running successfully? Well, you guys know what I'm trying to say? Take the game, when Tre Mason went for 117 yards. 89 were gained on one carry, were we really any more successful or was it one lucky pop? Is that truly definitive of a good running team?
To be able to be considered a running team, we must adopt the philosophy of the coach, Fisher. That is, we need to be able to run the ball, even when the opponent KNOWS it's coming...Until then, it doesn't matter what the play call is. I consider us to be a passing team to set up the run, not the other way around.

 

[CoachO]

this reminds me of the saying, "what comes first, the chicken or the egg?" Do we run less when the run is least successful, or, do we pass less when running successfully? Well, you guys know what I'm trying to say? Take the game, when Tre Mason went for 117 yards. 89 were gained on one carry, were we really any more successful or was it one lucky pop? Is that truly definitive of a good running team?
To be able to be considered a running team, we must adopt the philosophy of the coach, Fisher. That is, we need to be able to run the ball, even when the opponent KNOWS it's coming...Until then, it doesn't matter what the play call is. I consider us to be a passing team to set up the run, not the other way around.

I am not big on the YPC stat as much as I am the number of carries in a given game. For me, and it seems to bare itself out over the course of the season, its about throwing LESS, and continuing to run the ball. Over the course of 4 quarters, they will have success. Your example of Mason's break out run being a by product of exactly what I am talking about.

Go back to the first SF game for example. Schottenheimer completely abandoned the running game in the second half, even though they were still in a "one score" game. Thinking they are going to have success throwing the ball with Davis at QB 42 times, while running the ball 24 times is a formula for disaster IMO. And it proved to be that night.

 

[RamzFanz]

So you're saying Tavon Austin up the middle didn't work?!

 

[MTRamsFan]

I can believe the 2nd reason, but I'm not a big believer in the 1st. IMO, and this is me talking out of my ass, at least 3 or 4 of the starters on the OL have been playing average-to above average for most of the season. The 2 weakest links, IMO, are Wells and Joseph. Having them right next to each other creates a disadvantage for the running game. But having GRob and Saffold on the same side should open a lot of holes for the RBs.

True about G-Rob/Saffold, but then again, if defenses know we can't run up the middle/right side because of our weakness at Center and RG, they will either slant to our left side or overload daring us to run to our right. I really think if we replace those two and G-Rob has another year to work with Saffold, we will have a great O-Line. Barksdale has been solid, even though there were a couple games he really struggled. We're close, but we need to trim the fat with center and RG.